How many vapers are looking for a straight up tobacco replacement?

[Lancey]

Disclosure: I want to be up front about the fact that I'm working with a new e-cig company - I'm not employed by them, but they are a client of the business I work for. I'm here to research and get feedback, not to spam.

The guys I'm working with have put a lot of effort into designing a product that, they believe, is closer to the look, feel and taste of an analog cigarette than anything else. They hired a specialist flavour-consulting business that normally works with tobacco companies to come up a liquid that tastes like a traditional Virginia blend, using a panel of smokers as taste-testers, and they think they've got something pretty close.

Anyway - I really just wanted to ask whether people see this kind of product as something that there's a demand for - are there many vapers who just want something that replaces an analog cig as closely as possible?

Thanks.

 

[SuperTaz]

I am happy with my Black Cherry flavor

 

[Lancey]

I was speaking with a guy at Japan tobacco Inc recently, which (as you probably know) owns a few e-cig brands, and he was telling me that they're seeing more interest in flavoured e-liquids rather than the traditional tobacco flavours, so it seems to be the direction things are heading.

 

[Anemephistus]

I really needed that cigarette flavor for a long time, I vaped it for a couple of years using a cig-alike product. I've moved on and I consider tobacco replacement flavors to be step in the process. Many of us ex-smokers start there but once you crave vapor instead of smoke, I think we switch to flavors that are different, I did, so did many others I know. Honestly I know probably twenty people that started vaping using tobacco flavors, now , a year or so later none of them vape it at all.

 

[Robert Dupre]

I know a good bit of people that vape and only one that is actually wanting a flavor that taste as close to his cigars he likes. Other than they may use a tobacco flavor sometimes but nothing that is really close to being like smoking tobacco. For me personally i cant stand the taste of a cigarette or the smell of it anymore and wouldnt want to try a flavor like that.

 

[Withdrewandi]

I absolutely hated every single tobacco type flavour I tried even tho I smoked over a pack a day of the horrible things, some people however live for tobacco flavours it's a very personal thing IMO vaping tobacco based flavours only prolongs the memory of the stinkies and vaping more "colourful" flavours removes another obstacle to quitting

 

[djsvapour]

Not many, is your answer.

It's not the holy grail one would expect. Sure, you might sell a bit of it and maybe use it in a generic cig-a-like, but the potential for widespread acceptance and community purchasing on a regular basis is unlikely. Most people try to move away ASAP.

It might be a worthy idea, but once people get off the rip-off products (E-Lites, Vapestick, 10 motives) and onto proper refillable vaping hardware, 95% of vapers are looking to get away from tobacco type flavours.

5-10% of experienced vapers vaping a tobacco flavour 5-10% of the time isn't going to make much money.

Filling crap products with a pseudo flavour might sell, but ultimately these products are doomed to the history books.
If you don't believe me, find a company listed on the US stock exchange as "ECIG" and see just how well this section of the market is going.

The cig-a-like market is now in decline. The boat has sailed. Investing in it now (hardware or liquid) is a recipe for failure.

 

[Lancey]

That's interesting - the approach these guys are taking is "we're not about preaching at people to quit tobacco, we're just presenting an alternative if they want it". Based on your comment it sounds like the e-cigs that have tobacco-like flavours are only really used while people are easing themselves off analog cigs and onto vaping, before moving onto different flavours.

 

[Larryctw]

Me personally I cannot stand the taste of tobacco products which is one of the reasons I started vaping. For me the appeal is the wide variety of unique flavours. I cant ever see myself trying a tobacco flavour.

 

[Dyanne]

That's interesting - the approach these guys are taking is "we're not about preaching at people to quit tobacco, we're just presenting an alternative if they want it". Based on your comment it sounds like the e-cigs that have tobacco-like flavours are only really used while people are easing themselves off analog cigs and onto vaping, before moving onto different flavours.

That seems to be a fair assumption, reading threads about what people like to taste in their vapes might show you the changes in what they first liked or thought they wanted in the beginning quickly change

 

[WoWwYnAtoR]

I do look for a good tobacco flavor now and again. Not a cigarette flavor...Tobacco. Like a good pipe blend or aromatic cigar blend. Having issues with PG compounds the problem for me...I'm still searching.

 

[djsvapour]

That's interesting - the approach these guys are taking is "we're not about preaching at people to quit tobacco, we're just presenting an alternative if they want it". Based on your comment it sounds like the e-cigs that have tobacco-like flavours are only really used while people are easing themselves off analog cigs and onto vaping, before moving onto different flavours.

Exactly! You got it.

OK, so some of the terrible brands sell "classic" tobacco flavours in their plastic sticks. E-Lites, Nicolites, 10 Motives, VIP. These companies have made millions over the last few years.
BUT - let's make this 100% clear... The market is moving away from overpriced refills to refillable tanks.

If it wasn't, then companies like BLU, VIP, Cirro (10 motives) would not be offering refillable e-cigs. The profit margins are way less.

A refillable e-cig costs 5 times less than a cartridge (cartomizer one). The cat is out the bag on this. Refilling your Blu or Cirro is going to cost less than £1. Buying another cartridge of yucky tobacco for £2, or £3 or even an eye-watering £3.99 (E-Lites) is just becoming a thing of the past.


Once people start refilling, then a whole new world opens up. A world where once you try Lemon or Vanilla Custard, Mixed berries or Shisha apple.

 

[Lancey]

That's certainly the impression I'm getting. The company I'm working with seem convinced that there's enough of a market for them to get a foothold, and are thinking about branching into alternative flavours as a possible next step - although they'd want to do something original rather than just the same as all the other vendors.

 

[dice57]

To be quite hones Lancey, feel the type/style of product being described would be for people not experienced with vape, and just looking for a way off smokes. Once one starts finding flavors they enjoy, they tend to not enjoy a big tobacco type flavor. Though most new vapers, myself included, first searched for that camel, malboro red, whatever brand they were smoking.

Though I still use some tobacco extracts in DIY juice, the accent is on flavorful vape, from American Pie, to Hypnotic Mary and Mad Eye's Pumpkin Juice

Am sure you'd see a lot of first time purchases, and likely a few repeat customers, but once people learn what is vape possible, tobacco flavors generally hit the back burner, or something like that.

Best of luck in your vape endeavors.


Vape long and Prosper.!!!

 

[catsitter]

I started with unflavored nicotine before I discovered flavors and only once tried a tobacco flavor - I thought it was the most awful thing I'd ever tasted (this after 45 years of 2.5 PAD). I don't have any statistics for you, but from what I read in the DIY section, there is still a segment of this population using tobacco flavors, although not a very large one, and they seem interested mostly in using it to blend with, not as a straight-up flavor.

 

[daleron]

Welcome to ECF Lancey, make yourself right at home
No tobacco's for me thank you .... yuck!!

 

[mcclintock]

There's a huge market of current non-vapers. Myself, I'm most interested in tobacco juices, but wouldn't buy a cig-a-like and the tobaccos I like taste better than cigs (after that wonderful first puff, anyway).

I've tried the "classic tobacco" cigs by Blu, and MarkTen and don't like. Vuse was a bit better but maybe just because it's weaker... those who have tried a tobacco juice, a lot of them are based on what I call the "old shoe" flavor. Actually maybe most have some of it (has much throat hit) but it's the mix. There's lots of flavors I can't taste any: NETs, Halo Freedom, pipe tobaccos, everything at Avail (not very realistic though). I've also tried mixing a bit of tobacco in with some sweet flavors and it can be weird, but when it works it's very complex and good.

 

[Lancey]

Thanks, dice57 (and other commenters). The position we're in is that these guys felt that there was room for a higher quality alternative to the kind of cheap generic stuff so they've invested in designing feels like a decent product (disposables and refillable) along with a flavour that they hope will appeal to existing smokers. From the feedback I've been getting from the community (here and in the vape-shops I've spoken to), it definitely seems like this part of the market is dwindling. But, the long and short of it is that I've got the job of trying to make it as successful as I can for them.

Hopefully, they'll do well enough with this first product that they'll start to see the value in branching out into the kind of products and flavours that are more popular with vapers.

 

[Lancey]

Mcclintock - we are going to be giving away about 1,000 free samples of the disposable version of the product over the next week or so (our web guys are currently building the page for people to register). If you're in the UK, I can make sure you get sent one - it would be good to get thoughts from people like you who have tried other tobacco flavours and not been satisfied.

 

[FearTX]

I love a good tobacco flavor, all of the ones that I love are naturally extracted from tobacco leaf, one is a reduction of a natural extraction.

e-liquids made with TA or the other commonly available tobacco "flavors" are revolting.