How Much Ethyl Maltol?

[chainvapor]

Ok, I have some PA Cotton Candy coming which is 10% ethyl maltol diluted in PG (from what I read). What is the percentage of this should I try to mix with my liquids? I know taste is subjective, but just wondering what others use. I am figuring since it is only 10% Ethyl Maltol I will probably want to use a higher percentage in my mix, is this right? Anyway, just a good starting range would be great knowledge. (ie 5-10%) Or maybe a minimum/maximum? Thank you!! Sorry to be such a noob!

CV

 

[Kate51]

The highest suspension you can achieve with Ethyl Maltol is about 12½% in grain alcohol. So 10% is acceptable and probably the highest suspension % possible in PG. Vaporer and Scubabatdan can help you with this too.
When I mix it, I crush the crystals, a tsp½ or so (never found any liquid), put in a 15ml bottle and add Everclear to the top. Then I heat it gently, I use a coffee cup hot plate, little one, until it's all dissolved, cap it tight and let it cool back down. Crystals will reform in the bottom, but the liquid above it should be about 12½% solution, I draw that off and use it to cut my tobacco absolute (Rustica!). When the liquid is used, add some more alcohol and repeat the procedure. When there's no more crystals in the bottom after cooling, just add more EM and grain alcohol and start over. Lasts a long time.
I use 2 mls of Rustica to 5 mls EM solution X 3 for a small vial full, add a tiny pinch of menthol, and use that mix for my flavoring, 1ml to 9ml of VG=10ml batch. Sometimes I add ½ml of caramel and ½ml of hazelnut extracts in lieu of 1ml of plain VG. Makes a nice tobacco vape, very cheap and fun to do, on the order of the old Johnson Creek Original, when they used real tobacco flavoring. You can increase the tobacco:EM ratio a bit if you want it stronger of tobacco.
The Ethyl Maltol is really used to sort of meld the tobacco flavor, it cuts back the top bitters and enhances the lower 'grassy' flavors of pure tobacco leaf extracts. It's more a flavor enhancer than a sweetener, some people confuse that. I really don't like the tobacco without EM, kind of 'harsh' if you use it all day every day.
I haven't used flavorings other than tobacco, so don't know about the Cotton Candy, but should work to enhance that as well. I think EM came into being in the 60's, Malto Meal cereal, still love that! Now used in lots of foods (breads, cereals and bakery).

 

[Hoosier]

Um, how much?

Yeah, it really does depend. I use 10% solution too.

I have recipes that use 1% to 90% of total flavoring of EM.

A little takes an "edge" off. A bunch makes a cotton candy type of flavor. Depends on the harsh edge of a flavor or how sweet, with a full body, that the recipe needs. Heck I make things that use EM & sweetener.

I have never heard that you use X% of EM in everything.

For a jumping off point. Taking an edge off 1-5%. Add a little body with sweetness, 5-20%. Going candy-like add even more without overwhelming your base so it depends on your base flavoring strength.

 

[Scubabatdan]

The highest suspension you can achieve with Ethyl Maltol is about 12½% in grain alcohol. So 10% is acceptable and probably the highest suspension % possible in PG. Vaporer and Scubabatdan can help you with this too.
When I mix it, I crush the crystals, a tsp½ or so (never found any liquid), put in a 15ml bottle and add Everclear to the top. Then I heat it gently, I use a coffee cup hot plate, little one, until it's all dissolved, cap it tight and let it cool back down. Crystals will reform in the bottom, but the liquid above it should be about 12½% solution, I draw that off and use it to cut my tobacco absolute (Rustica!). When the liquid is used, add some more alcohol and repeat the procedure. When there's no more crystals in the bottom after cooling, just add more EM and grain alcohol and start over. Lasts a long time.
I use 2 mls of Rustica to 5 mls EM solution X 3 for a small vial full, add a tiny pinch of menthol, and use that mix for my flavoring, 1ml to 9ml of VG=10ml batch. Sometimes I add ½ml of caramel and ½ml of hazelnut extracts in lieu of 1ml of plain VG. Makes a nice tobacco vape, very cheap and fun to do, on the order of the old Johnson Creek Original, when they used real tobacco flavoring. You can increase the tobacco:EM ratio a bit if you want it stronger of tobacco.
The Ethyl Maltol is really used to sort of meld the tobacco flavor, it cuts back the top bitters and enhances the lower 'grassy' flavors of pure tobacco leaf extracts. It's more a flavor enhancer than a sweetener, some people confuse that. I really don't like the tobacco without EM, kind of 'harsh' if you use it all day every day.
I haven't used flavorings other than tobacco, so don't know about the Cotton Candy, but should work to enhance that as well. I think EM came into being in the 60's, Malto Meal cereal, still love that! Now used in lots of foods (breads, cereals and bakery).

Hi Kate!

She is on target as usual, the Perfumer Apprentice carries EM (Liguid) in 10%, Ethyl Maltol 10% Liquid
I typically buy 16oz of EM liquid from the PA and 2.5ml of TA, heat both is a hot bath and add them together, makes a nice tobacco base as Kate pointed out that can be added to with various flavors. I then use this at 10% for most of my tobacco flavors.
Since it is suspended in PG you could go as high as 10% just on its own and add other flavors to the mix like stawberry, or blueberry. It is all reletive to your taste. So I am with Hooser on this, it depends on the mix you are making as X% amount would not be a right fit for everything.
Best suggestion is to start low and add and refine and document everything, so when you get the taste you want you can duplicate it.

Hope this helps.
Dan

 

[chainvapor]

The highest suspension you can achieve with Ethyl Maltol is about 12½% in grain alcohol. So 10% is acceptable and probably the highest suspension % possible in PG. Vaporer and Scubabatdan can help you with this too.

Um, how much?

Yeah, it really does depend. I use 10% solution too.

Hi Kate!

She is on target as usual, the Perfumer Apprentice carries EM (Liguid) in 10%, Ethyl Maltol 10% Liquid

Thank you for all the info everyone! It is appreciated. Just so you know, I do not vape anything with tobacco flavor. I have decided I do not like the taste. I am vaping other flavors now. I got a bunch of LorAnns flavorings and I picked up a bottle of PA Cotton Candy which if I read correctly is Ethyl Maltol at 10% already mixed. I figured this would be easier for me being a noob and all. I have heard that a little EM will help bring out some flavors, so I wanted to make sure I got some. Next week I will start doing some experimenting with different flavors and percentages. Hopefully I will find something I like. Anyway, thank you all again. Oh and by the way, your calculator ROCKS DAN!!!!!! THANKS!

Kindest Regards,
CV

 

[Kate51]

That Calculator is absolutely key when working with different flavors and doing your own recipes!! I do my measuring in milliliters only, much more accurate with varying viscosities, but a lot of folks use drops. Be sure to keep a notebook, unless you have a photographic memory.

Hope you have good luck, I've not tried flavors with/without EM for a long time, until I finally found my 'perfect' vape I was buying commercial Johnson Creek Orginal. I loved it, but then they stopped using real tobacco flavors and VG, so had to go on a mixin' mission, BIG THANKS for DIY helpers.

I figured out my first 10ml successful batch of Remake-Johnson-Creek-Original cost me about $300, but what the heck..so I've stuck with my same Recipe ever since. I have been successful in lowering nic density from 24mg/ml down to 18mg down to 12mg. If I go lower than that (I have!) my ADD catches up with me big time. Brain function much better at 12mg.

VG is kind of fickle, seems to 'eat' flavors, but after I switched exclusively to ECOpure Krystal and Mixer had no more trouble. PG I can't tolerate at all, not even a little bit, so I have to mix my own crystal EM using Everclear (grain alcohol) which carries right into mixing the tobacco dilute. (Alcohol is the only thing that will "cut" tobacco absolute into a stable suspension.) The right %XX of mixed-in flavors is a matter for much experimenting, without messing up your nicotine density. Sometimes using only plain PG or VG in small batches until the flavor is right is a good way to not waste nicotine juice.

Let us know what you come up with. Kate

 

[Elf]

I posted a "Sweet Cinnamon" recipe recently where I try to use a heavier concentration of Ethyl Maltol. My scale is not scientific grade, but my best guess is that I have been able to push it upwards of 16% w/v in PG. Has anyone by chance with more accurate equipment been able to measure what the actual maximum concentration in PG might be?

 

[Kate51]

Elf, You can look where you buy it, they should have a list of specs, or did have, I know the chart has been posted here in DIY someplace because I did it...awhile ago (a year or more). I know in grain alcohol it's 12½% (that's maximum, in a liquid suitable and safe for our purpose), in PG and VG about the same at 10%, and in water much much less of course. I think you could measure it with refraction if you had a device available. You can see it a bit by watching what happens as it cools, there is sometimes an 'inversion layer' or a pool within a pool going on. Very neat!
You may have pushed the suspension above the maximum temporarily if you heated the PG, but as it cools back to room temps it can only keep about a 10% by volume suspension. What it cannot support recrystalizes and sinks to the bottom.
If you refrigerate it sometimes will cause further recrystalization, sort of like honey does.