How US Suppliers are letting us all down

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KDMickey

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 10, 2009
112
0
Denver, CO, USA
Krakkan, I have acknowledged your efforts and given you kudos from the get go. I'm sorry if my critical note outweighed my congrats!

I am glad to hear about you guys banding together. I hope it works in everybody's best interest.

Most of all, I appreciate all of you suppliers that take the concerns of us customers regarding the legal side of things seriously.
 

Krakkan

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2009
855
4
New Orleans, LA
www.truesmoker.com
Krakkan, I have acknowledged your efforts and given you kudos from the get go. I'm sorry if my critical note outweighed my congrats!

I am glad to hear about you guys banding together. I hope it works in everybody's best interest.

Most of all, I appreciate all of you suppliers that take the concerns of us customers regarding the legal side of things seriously.

I think after I reread it a few times I understood it better I was up till 4am with Vendors in conference call so was really tired and saw "How US Suppliers are letting us down!" and my name lol I apologize if I misunderstood.


Coffee mmmmmmmmm
 

Krakkan

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2009
855
4
New Orleans, LA
www.truesmoker.com
Here is a letter I wrote demanding the Senator and FDA meet with the Association all of the quoted items are from the FDA directors own words when he took office. Have not sent yet due to worry about wording ;) but as you can see we are trying our best. I am not the greatest at putting my thoughts down on paper as well as some of you are maybe you guys can help rewrite it for us and we can send it.


[FONT="]“politics has no standing in regulatory decisions” ~[/FONT][/B][/I][I][B][FONT="]Frank M. Torti, M.D., MPH [/FONT]

As you may see we have a lot of E-Smokers in the US pushing towards 50,000 we request the Senator speak with our community directly as he is our public servant and it is our right to discuss this in an open forum.

I will schedule a call between him and all the US Vendors and World Manufacturers to show not all of us are promoting E-Cigs as anything other than what it is a smoking alternative.

The community such as E-cigarette forums we have studies which have been done by health organizations that show the community does care what they inhale and are trying to insure its being used safely.

If you label E-Cig as a drug delivery device then you have to do the same for tobacco which also has nicotine(delivered via inhaling ) our E-cigs are ONLY smoking alternatives. Plus you can even have them with zero nicotine.

I am providing links to studies and our petition. Which is over 2300 Signatures as we speak…

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/2ndSafetyReport_9Apr08.pdf
http://healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport21-Oct-08.pdf
http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Portland2008ECIG.pdf
Electronic cigarettes. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available

All we ask is the Senator and FDA commission listen to what we all have experienced this has made thousands feel better read what people are writing in our petition and if the Senator gets his way this will be a death sentence for many of us as all vendors are typically users as well.

The US vendors have created a council where we will be meeting in Chicago in April to help insure reform in the industry and help police marketing and regulate the sale of products. We invite you all there to discuss if like.

[FONT="]“We must be open to criticism, willing to change, and apply our decisions with humility and courtesy, bearing in mind that our sometimes imperfect judgments profoundly affect not only the fate of companies but the health and welfare of all Americans.” ~[/FONT][/B][/I][I][B][FONT="]Frank M. Torti, M.D., MPH[/FONT]

The Honorable Frank M. Torti knows well and good the effects cancer have on the human body so is this possible Ban worth the risk of sending those many smokers possibly back to tobacco which we already know is NO good for us whereas this product may or may not be good for us. All we ask is that you prove it is bad before you condemn it through ignorance of it.

We request that you speak with us and schedule this appointment.


Regards,

JD Henry
 

Krakkan

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2009
855
4
New Orleans, LA
www.truesmoker.com
Here is a letter I wrote demanding the Senator and FDA meet with the Association all of the quoted items are from the FDA directors own words when he took office. Have not sent yet due to worry about wording ;) but as you can see we are trying our best. I am not the greatest at putting my thoughts down on paper as well as some of you are maybe you guys can help rewrite it for us and we can send it.


[FONT="]“politics has no standing in regulatory decisions” ~[/FONT][/B][/I][I][B][FONT="]Frank M. Torti, M.D., MPH [/FONT]

As you may see we have a lot of E-Smokers in the US pushing towards 50,000 we request the Senator speak with our community directly as he is our public servant and it is our right to discuss this in an open forum.

I will schedule a call between him and all the US Vendors and World Manufacturers to show not all of us are promoting E-Cigs as anything other than what it is a smoking alternative.

The community such as E-cigarette forums we have studies which have been done by health organizations that show the community does care what they inhale and are trying to insure its being used safely.

If you label E-Cig as a drug delivery device then you have to do the same for tobacco which also has nicotine(delivered via inhaling ) our E-cigs are ONLY smoking alternatives. Plus you can even have them with zero nicotine.

I am providing links to studies and our petition. Which is over 2300 Signatures as we speak…

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/2ndSafetyReport_9Apr08.pdf
http://healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport21-Oct-08.pdf
http://www.healthnz.co.nz/Portland2008ECIG.pdf
Electronic cigarettes. (tobaccoharmreduction.org)
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available

All we ask is the Senator and FDA commission listen to what we all have experienced this has made thousands feel better read what people are writing in our petition and if the Senator gets his way this will be a death sentence for many of us as all vendors are typically users as well.

The US vendors have created a council where we will be meeting in Chicago in April to help insure reform in the industry and help police marketing and regulate the sale of products. We invite you all there to discuss if like.

[FONT="]“We must be open to criticism, willing to change, and apply our decisions with humility and courtesy, bearing in mind that our sometimes imperfect judgments profoundly affect not only the fate of companies but the health and welfare of all Americans.” ~[/FONT][/B][/I][I][B][FONT="]Frank M. Torti, M.D., MPH[/FONT]

The Honorable Frank M. Torti knows well and good the effects cancer have on the human body so is this possible Ban worth the risk of sending those many smokers possibly back to tobacco which we already know is NO good for us whereas this product may or may not be good for us. All we ask is that you prove it is bad before you condemn it through ignorance of it.

We request that you speak with us and schedule this appointment.


Regards,

JD Henry

The 50k esmokers is an arbitrary number I need more facts on how many of us there actually is.
 

eplanet

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Any chance of the association putting a percentage of sales into a legal fund/research and development in order to get these legit? IF a start-up company could start marketing these with FDA approval, it might be possible to put big tobacco in the backseat and setback a portion of big pharm.

Mickey,
I appreciate your concern's and compassion, the AECSM is newly forming and there are a lot of obstacles in our way, but don't freak out yet. We are organizing and everyone will be informed in the near future. We are working on all of the thing's you are concerned with. There is going to be a big battle and we all need to stick together.

Peace,
Josh
 

Alpine77

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
There is a very simple way for all of us suppliers to put a link to this petition. Simply explain it a little before you link to it. Say something like "Want some added proof of the the incredible benfits associated with the electronic cigarette, click this link to read testimonials of thousands of people who have been using the electronic cigarette and have had incredible experiences. While you are at it, sign this petition to ensure that the electronic cigarette is here to stay!" or something along those lines. It can be used as a great selling tool while also encouraging people to sign the petition and list their experiences!

I just updated my site to include a link on the homepage. I would encourage more to do the same. Feel free to use what I have written here or even what I have written on my website which is slightly different, or feel free to write your own words. Whatever it is, lets get more signatures!!!!
 
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I just looked through ALL of the links of the supporting suppliers. Of the 50+ websites I just visited, all of three had links to the FDA petition on their front pages. So, I would like to thank: vaporstix, thesmokelessshop, vaporatom, and truesmoker.

That said, none of you have taken ANY effort to get people involved in keeping vaping legal in the US. I am horrified and disappointed in your negligence. Additionally, I still found some outrages health-related claims. The ALL TIME LOSERS were anycigarette, digitalsmokeshop, and skyrl. Please remove the B*llSh*t health claims from your sites immediately. And be grateful I cannot ban you.

Please, suppliers, many vapers never come to the forums. As such, it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to get these people involved. If our voices aren't heard, your businesses will be shut down and there is a high probability you will incur hefty fines.

I encourage all suppliers to POST how they are encouraging their customers to get involved. Signing the petition, while a start, is insufficient. Try providing links from which your customers can contact their representatives and senators, the American Cancer Society, etc. We MUST get going on this, and we must do it NOW.

I will be checking on your progress shortly.

Regards,
-Mickey

Thanks Mickey! I agree completely! You know, I am not a Paid Promoter here on this forum, (I have asked lately, but that's another issue).
Anyway, I believe as a reseller and a man in the business of sales it is our responsibility, no Duty to do whatever we can to help this industry and its consumers! But, enough said, the proof is in the pudding as they say...

Testimonials

e-cigarette petition

Canada Sales

Warranty, Care, & Tips

E-Smokers Electronic Cigarette Forums

Electronic Cigarette Information News Products Blog

Ingredients & FDA FAQ

Quit Smoking

Enough Said.
Sincerely,
Patrick Colton/President
 

KDMickey

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 10, 2009
112
0
Denver, CO, USA
Thanks Mickey! I agree completely! You know, I am not a Paid Promoter here on this forum, (I have asked lately, but that's another issue).
Anyway, I believe as a reseller and a man in the business of sales it is our responsibility, no Duty to do whatever we can to help this industry and its consumers! But, enough said, the proof is in the pudding as they say...

Testimonials

e-cigarette petition

Canada Sales

Warranty, Care, & Tips

E-Smokers Electronic Cigarette Forums

Electronic Cigarette Information News Products Blog

Ingredients & FDA FAQ

Quit Smoking

Enough Said.
Sincerely,
Patrick Colton/President

Patrick,

Thank you, those efforts should help a lot. I am curious, though, if you might consider the name of your business a little risky. "Healthy" and "smoke" won't look good side-by-side to many. You might consider having that url re-direct to a new page that does not include the word "healthy." Just a recommendation!

Cheers,
-Mickey
 

skyrl

Full Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 26, 2009
76
0
Seattle, WA
First of all please remove me from your list because I removed everything you said, I don't want to do anything that harms our chances of moving forward.

Now for my real opinion.

You are all cowards! Every single one of you know that this product is healthier, and tests have been done to prove that. I had a wife of a pulmonary doctor order one for their boy in the ARMY. Even doctors, and health associations are saying positive things, yet a few of you want to hide the truth? You are all playing right into the FDA's hands. You are afraid, of the truth, which is the product DOES help people quit smoking, and it DOES reduce harm. The only way you are ever going to stop this ban, is by showing, for example, Mr. Bob who smokes, and has a brother with a lung cancer, caused by smoking, is that there is a healthier way, and you do have other options to quit. You veterans of this site should know that already. If you are going to stand up for something, stand up for the TRUTH, and not your half ..., let's say this, but not say this.
When customers call me, I tell them about what's happening with the FDA, or at least the ones I have a conversation with, so I am not trying to hide the truth, because the truth, is o our side, not theirs!

I removed the wording, just to satisfy this site's rule's, but I promise you if the FDA try's to ban this product, I will do everything in my power to fight them. We need to all unite as one, the larger suppliers don't care, they have already made their millions, they will wait out the couple of years it take to do the trials, or move their operations overseas. We need to unite for the truth, and the truth is, there is a product that can save millions of lives NOW, is healthier, and helps people quite an evil addiction, but yet we the people allow a bunch of fat ... billionaire's to force poison down our throat. Until we unite as one, and fight for the TRUTH, we will never win this fight. We the small suppliers need to form a coalition, and fight back, lets put our money together, and take them head on, and lets hire an attorney, as to fight any possible ban. A grand jury of 12 people hearing our case will definitely go for our side. Everyone has lost a family member, or friend, that has died because of cigarettes, or knows someone who does, so it would not be hard to convince a jury, that the FDA is the cigarette makers, and pharmaceutical companies right arm, the same goes with congress, an senate, and to be seen, the president.

Lets wage a war in the media, and in the courts. Talk is cheap, and hiding behind rules, that hide the truth is even cheaper. It’s time to FIGHT!

I have only been in business for less than a few weeks, but if I had the funds, I swear to everything I know, I would hire the best attorney in the world and spent every last dime I had to fight for the TRUTH. I would feel better sleeping at night, knowing that I was able to help a child be with his father for an extra 20, or more years, I would feel like my life meant something. I just wish I had the ability, and that's why I am asking for all the small suppliers to join together. Together we could afford to fight this in the courts. Lets stand up, for those who are not able to stand up for themselves. Let's finally take on the biggest drug lords of all time (cigarette makers, and pharmaceutical companies )

Once there is a complete ban, I will follow the law, and close my store, but until then, I will do whatever I can to make this attempt to ban this product stop. I even emailed the White House, not that, it will most likely make any difference, but I am doing what I can.


Eddie
 
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Phalse

Super Member
ECF Veteran
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LaceyUnderall

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 4, 2008
2,568
5
USA and Canada
skyrl -

No. We are not cowards. We are simply playing within the boundaries of the set rules. I know several suppliers up here quite well and we all QUIT tobacco by smoking e-cigs. There are rules in place and even though they are antiquated and need changing, doesn't mean that we still don't have to adhere to them.

IF you are as you say you are, then I am curious as to why you haven't shown any interest in the association of suppliers? At this point, there has been enough talk that anyone in the industry on the supply side should have heard of it at least once, especially if you are visiting the suppliers private forum.

And please... there will never be a complete ban. Let's all just get that out of our vocabulary right now.
 

Krakkan

Unregistered Supplier
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2009
855
4
New Orleans, LA
www.truesmoker.com
skyrl -

No. We are not cowards. We are simply playing within the boundaries of the set rules. I know several suppliers up here quite well and we all QUIT tobacco by smoking e-cigs. There are rules in place and even though they are antiquated and need changing, doesn't mean that we still don't have to adhere to them.

IF you are as you say you are, then I am curious as to why you haven't shown any interest in the association of suppliers? At this point, there has been enough talk that anyone in the industry on the supply side should have heard of it at least once, especially if you are visiting the suppliers private forum.

And please... there will never be a complete ban. Let's all just get that out of our vocabulary right now.

Skyrl You can rock the boat more if you are inside the boat. Making a difference one step at a time always surpasses the person who tries to leap 10 and falls on his face.
 

skyrl

Full Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 26, 2009
76
0
Seattle, WA
skyrl -

No. We are not cowards. We are simply playing within the boundaries of the set rules. I know several suppliers up here quite well and we all QUIT tobacco by smoking e-cigs. There are rules in place and even though they are antiquated and need changing, doesn't mean that we still don't have to adhere to them.

IF you are as you say you are, then I am curious as to why you haven't shown any interest in the association of suppliers? At this point, there has been enough talk that anyone in the industry on the supply side should have heard of it at least once, especially if you are visiting the suppliers private forum.

And please... there will never be a complete ban. Let's all just get that out of our vocabulary right now.

Tell you the truth, I haven't had a lot of time to read on the forums, so I didn't even know about the "Association of suppliers". I would love to join. I will do a search for it on the forums, but if you could tell me how to join, I would appreciate it, that would really help. I have signed up as a supplier, is that the association?

Eddie

www.skyrl.com
 

LaceyUnderall

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Dec 4, 2008
2,568
5
USA and Canada
Tell you the truth, I haven't had a lot of time to read on the forums, so I didn't even know about the "Association of suppliers". I would love to join. I will do a search for it on the forums, but if you could tell me how to join, I would appreciate it, that would really help. I have signed up as a supplier, is that the association?

Eddie

Electric Cigarette-Mini Cig- ECig-Skyrl Electric Cigarette

PM me. I will add you to the list. We have an upcoming meeting April 11th-12th in Chicago where we are going to form the actual association, then, we will post information on becoming a member in the Suppliers Private Forum here on ECF.
 

skyrl

Full Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 26, 2009
76
0
Seattle, WA
To KDmickey who started this thread. I have removed those claims along time ago, and I asked you nicely to remove my name from that least, but for some reason you seem to not care. We even put a warning category, so we are going far and beyond to let people know this is not meant for quiting, or any health advatages. Why son't you look at the site now, so you can see it for yourself. When we first opened we did not know about the cause, and once we found out we imidiately made changes, so I don't understand why you refuse to remove our name from your list.


If you want to post the truth, why don't you go to our site and see the truth for yourself. We opened for 3 days, and you put us on the all time lose list for making health claims. I think there were many more companies that we around that were making the same claims far before we came along, so report the truth which is, We make no such claims, and have warning now on our site.

Eddie

www.skyrl.com
 
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