HR1676 - shipping untaxed tobacco to be a crime

[TropicalBob]

I fear this particular bill will shut down online ordering of Swedish snus. General does sell its products at some stores in the U.S., so there is hope of obtaining those. I have one such store in Sarasota; I believe Orlando has one (tobacco Depot).

The end goal for these bills is to send nicotine addicts to a local store to buy product, where contents are regulated and taxes are collected.

For me, it ends ordering great pipe tobacco from Kentucky, snus from Sweden, and nasal snuff from England.

 

[Stubby]

Do any of you all think this will relate to snus? Like if you get them from Sweden? I know there is an import limit of 2 cartons before you get taxed. Unless this changes that?

This is the swedish general store locator.

SwedishSnus.com by Swedish Match

Nothing in WI where I live but there is one 80 miles away in Rockford IL. Another one at O-hare airport. There may be a very limited selection, General White and original, General los, and General Wintergreen and mini mints.

I would hope that if all goes bad and both bills pass they would expand the number of stores. I'm already thinking about trying to add some flavorings to the los for a bit of variety. It will likely not work but it might be worth a try.

 

[MrSterling]

Hi guys,
I reside in the state of NC and I’ve long known that transporting cigarettes to other states with very high cigarettes tax is illegal if done by personal vehicle. After checking on the net I’ve found that it may be illegal to send by UPS or FEDEX as well. But if done by USPS it may be done legally. Is this true? Let’s say I wanted to ship cigarettes I bought in NC at retail to a customer in NY or Maryland would I be at risk?

 

[happily]

Hi guys,
I reside in the state of NC and I’ve long known that transporting cigarettes to other states with very high cigarettes tax is illegal if done by personal vehicle. After checking on the net I’ve found that it may be illegal to send by UPS or FEDEX as well. But if done by USPS it may be done legally. Is this true? Let’s say I wanted to ship cigarettes I bought in NC at retail to a customer in NY or Maryland would I be at risk?

I think you're looking for the cigarette forum...........2 doors down on the left

 

[C-kool Dad '09]

This is the swedish general store locator.

SwedishSnus.com by Swedish Match

Nothing in WI where I live but there is one 80 miles away in Rockford IL. Another one at O-hare airport. There may be a very limited selection, General White and original, General los, and General Wintergreen and mini mints.

I would hope that if all goes bad and both bills pass they would expand the number of stores. I'm already thinking about trying to add some flavorings to the los for a bit of variety. It will likely not work but it might be worth a try.

I have heard 'The General' IS available at a cigar store in Menomonee Falls (County Line Rd & Appleton) right next to the Fleet-Farm.

 

[webtaxman]

Do any of you all think this will relate to snus? Like if you get them from Sweden? I know there is an import limit of 2 cartons before you get taxed. Unless this changes that?

Hi Faethe, can you tell me where you found this limit and is it State, or Fed law? I'm reviewing the whole tax structure (customs, duty, VAT, local sales tax, etc). The more sources, the better.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[Marlyn M]

Here in NV it's about $12 w/a 2 pack a day habit and I just don't know how people are doing it. Eating a lot of rice I guess. I quite w/ the first 1.60 per pack hike and I will never go back regardless of sanctions. I'll just order from out of the country.

 

[webtaxman]

I remember a few years back, Those in NJ were hit hard by a crackdown on "illegal" Cigarette sales--I believe it was a State crackdown? Many, I mean many NJ buyers that used the Internet, or Indian Tribes, paid massive penalties/fines, and probably still are. Yes, they went after the consumer.

That strong enforcement sure seemed to curb the demand from the Internet and Indian tribe sales. I believe they went back more than a year to see just how much was bought during more than 1 year periods. I think it was based similarly on CA's Use tax laws. Anybody from NJ affected by this? I don't know all the details obviously.

Btw, what do you call yourselves--Jersians? I honestly don't know!

 

[denec]

Here in NV it's about $12 w/a 2 pack a day habit and I just don't know how people are doing it. Eating a lot of rice I guess. I quite w/ the first 1.60 per pack hike and I will never go back regardless of sanctions. I'll just order from out of the country.

in NYC it is now $12 for a pack it is crazy!!!! $9 for cheap cigs

 

[tbremer]

in NYC it is now $12 for a pack it is crazy!!!! $9 for cheap cigs

$12 a pack?!?! what a joke! last pack i bought (a week ago) was just over $5. $12 is just flat out robbery. really seems to me that theyre trying to make them so expensive that no one in thier right mind is going to pick up this habit, at the cost of the current smokers being absolutely miserable! honestly, it'll probably work... im personally going to try to get completely off analogs and e-cig, just incase the e-cig goes away, theres no way i could afford $12 for analogs and id rather quit on my "own" terms.

makes you wonder how theyre going to try and handle gun laws uh?

 

[mpetva]

Man pleads to smuggling 16 million cigarettes - wtop.com

Man pleads to smuggling 16 million cigarettes

May 27, 2009 - 8:45am

By MATTHEW BARAKAT
Associated Press Writer

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) - A New Jersey man pleaded guilty Tuesday to smuggling nearly 16 million cigarettes he bought from undercover federal agents in Virginia to sell in New York and New Jersey.
Mark A. Frondelli, 48, of Parlin, N.J., admitted as part of a plea agreement in U.S. District Court in Alexandria that he paid more than $2.3 million in cash in 47 separate transactions with undercover agents between November 2007 and August 2008.

MORE ON THE LINK!

 

[tbremer]

Man pleads to smuggling 16 million cigarettes - wtop.com

Man pleads to smuggling 16 million cigarettes

May 27, 2009 - 8:45am

By MATTHEW BARAKAT
Associated Press Writer

ALEXANDRIA, Va. (AP) - A New Jersey man pleaded guilty Tuesday to smuggling nearly 16 million cigarettes he bought from undercover federal agents in Virginia to sell in New York and New Jersey.
Mark A. Frondelli, 48, of Parlin, N.J., admitted as part of a plea agreement in U.S. District Court in Alexandria that he paid more than $2.3 million in cash in 47 separate transactions with undercover agents between November 2007 and August 2008.

MORE ON THE LINK!

that article struck up something else for me.i think its going to be interesting to see how this will compare to prohibition. sure its not completely banning cigarettes, but a black markets a black market.

 

[DoubleTrouble]

The interesting problem if the PACT Act passes the Senate, will be the unforeseen consequences. Government officials routinely fail in two basic ways. They don't understand that citizens REACT to federal and state regulations. And they don't understand that they can't see into the future. Unforeseen consequences get them every time.

One problem will be that Indian nations are just that----nations. They are not a part of the legal United States, excepting by detailed decisions. To embargo trade from an Indian reservation to the surrounding United States could be seen as an act of war. Another interesting thing would be to see whether a tribe sought nation status in the United Nations.

Could you imagine the UN coming down on the United States for illegally sanctioning a trade embargo on a group of smaller nations?

If the PACT Act does become law, then even the USPS would be prevented from delivering mail containing tobacco products to a residential address. Presumably, that would mean anyone looking for special pipe tobacco would have to have their local tobacco store special order the product.

Another interesting problem will be the constitutional issue over privacy. How can the government control what does or does not pass across the US Mail into a private residence and home? Obviously, it isn't the mailing, it's the "declaration" of taxable product.

The US Post Office and all sellers will be required to document each shipment of tobacco. That means a tremendous addition to paperwork. The Indian tribes will likely accept the challenge. But with the US Post Office currently losing money by the ton, will they be able to keep up with the paperwork? It'll be like having to fill out a customs form on every single shipment of tobacco and tobacco products (which includes Snus, I believe).

All in all, Washington is about to introduce one of the biggest fiascos since Prohibition. With 40-million smokers, I wonder at what point politicians will worry about their careers?

 

[TropicalBob]

With the new Florida tobacco tax hikes on July 1, the state took care of Indian reservation sales; full tax will be collected. In essence, Florida gave the Indians some beads. Well, not exactly like those that bought Manhattan, but enough money to keep the Indians happy .. and collecting Florida tax.

Money talks. Treaties walk.

 

[Sar]

$12 a pack?!?! what a joke! last pack i bought (a week ago) was just over $5. $12 is just flat out robbery. really seems to me that theyre trying to make them so expensive that no one in thier right mind is going to pick up this habit, at the cost of the current smokers being absolutely miserable! honestly, it'll probably work... im personally going to try to get completely off analogs and e-cig, just incase the e-cig goes away, theres no way i could afford $12 for analogs and id rather quit on my "own" terms.

makes you wonder how theyre going to try and handle gun laws uh?

First you get them addicted. Then you demonize them so general public doesn't defend them. Then you rob them blind by taxing their addiction. This is completely immoral. Very much like a local drug dealer who gives out free samples so you come back again and again. That our elected officials are doing this is just outrageous.

I have similar plan to what you described. I have already gotten off analogs so I am no longer supporting the state's tobacco tax revenue addiction. The next step is to gradually reduce the nicotine level in the eliquid to zero. I've ordered a high-voltage PV that some people claim can deliver a throat hit even with zero nicotine liquid.

 

[Mixmaster51]

Are any of you surprised by ANY of this? We were basted, rotisseried and served up before Obama ever signed that bill into action. The FDA, ALA, Big Tobacco, Anti-smokers and the Environmentalists, yes, I heard an article from them about E-cigs being potentially dangerous to the environment. They all want to maximize the profits out of the current generation of smokers until they can kill us off with lung cancer becuase there will be no viable smoking cesation alternatives that are completely effective. After that there will be no one left to complain when they quietly ban tobacco and the one, read one, tobacoo company that is left will have already diversified enough to shut down production of cigarettes. The bill cited by the O.P. is a direct attack at E-Cigs, if they can't get us one way..., hookah smookers, oh they think the government forgot about them..., pipe tobacco smokers, snuff users and trust me before the final bill is passed cigars are going to be in there as well. They are just tidying up the loose ends that the other bill didn't take care of and if you read the bill you will see that there is to be a registry of companies and individuals, in other words, your name and address will be at the local sheriffs office as an offender, correct me please if I am wrong, I hope I am oh please let me be... BTW is it illegal to vape in France or are the planning to make it that way. I am looking to move in a year because of our government. I am tired of writing letters, calling and fighting. This country no longer represents the people or me. I am being disproportionately taxed without an equally disproportionate amount of representation.

To the Poster concerning gun control, have you tried to get rounds for handguns lately? Control the weapons by controling the ammunition, then you can control the people the hardest. Honestly, I think Adolph would have been proud of our government as it is today.

Mixmaster51

 

[DoubleTrouble]

One thing for sure, nobody's going to get rid of tobacco. ALL this is about the money coming in from it. Yup, the big companies want a lock on the market, and no PVs, no cigars, no snuff, no snus and maybe even no gum or patches. But tobacco? Sure...good money in that.

We switched to a VX2, but also bought a Top-O-Matic roller. The key seems to be (??) control over taxes. As long as we buy in a store, locally, where all taxes are accounted for, then getting tobacco seems to be no real problem. So until or unless we convert entirely to vapor, we're now happily rolling our own. And the results are no different in packing, feel, draw, and burn from a premium cig. At half or less of the cost.

 

[tokarev]

Luckily, I made the switch to the PV just before the tax went up on roll-your-own. I had been rolling my own for several years prior to that. I don't want to go back to tobacco, but I already have a Top-O-Matic machine, as well as several others. If I can't get PV supplies, and can't quit the habit, I guess I'll have to consider growing and curing my own tobacco. I just can't bring myself to pay the outrageous taxes anymore. It's not the money, it's the principle. (Well, ok, it's partly the money.) I hope it never comes to that.

As for the ammo...roll-your-own applies there, too....

TT33