Hit the nail on the head, Dune. Huffington Post is ultra left wing tripe.
Huffington Post Blog
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Hit the nail on the head, Dune. Huffington Post is ultra left wing tripe.
28 <~~~ wants an e-cig loop added to her holster
dunno how the left can be so pro-freedom on some things and so anti on others. no consistency of principle whatsoever on either side, it's total culture war bs. each is against the vices perceived to be associated with the "other" side.. legalise them all and let Darwin sort it out!
It doesn't matter if this is left wing or right wing site. We need to get any support we can.
I just added my comment too. Don't know if it will be shown, but I tried something different:
The ecigarette report by FDA is so full of holes that it reads more like fiction than science. Others posted links to analysis by Dr. Siegel etc, so I will not repeat that. But I'd like you to imagine for a minute that your father was still alive and had the option to use these electronic vaporizers instead of his usual tobacco cigarettes. What would you do?
You see, we, the dirty no-self-control smokers are your father. We are your mother, sister and we are your brother. Over 400,000 of us die each year because of cigarette smoking. So much effort and money goes into finding better treatment for the diseases we get -- cancer research is now the most funded and top priority research area.
It would be logical to think that the pharmaceutical industry would put even bigger effort into smoking cessation research since cigarette smoking is the root cause of the problem. Sadly, according to the NIH, smoking cessation research doesn't even make it to top 25 development areas. Treating cancer seems to be more important than preventing it.
Karen, please don't participate in the anti-electronic-cigarette hysteria. FDA found a trace of tobacco by-product in one of the liquids used by e-cigarettes and is preparing to ban these devices. For many of us that means that the next liquid we'll use may be chemotherapy. Please help. Please do it for all fathers that can still survive their nicotine addiction thanks to this life-saving technology.
I just added my comment too. Don't know if it will be shown, but I tried something different:
The ecigarette report by FDA is so full of holes that it reads more like fiction than science. Others posted links to analysis by Dr. Siegel etc, so I will not repeat that. But I'd like you to imagine for a minute that your father was still alive and had the option to use these electronic vaporizers instead of his usual tobacco cigarettes. What would you do?
You see, we, the dirty no-self-control smokers are your father. We are your mother, sister and we are your brother. Over 400,000 of us die each year because of cigarette smoking. So much effort and money goes into finding better treatment for the diseases we get -- cancer research is now the most funded and top priority research area.
It would be logical to think that the pharmaceutical industry would put even bigger effort into smoking cessation research since cigarette smoking is the root cause of the problem. Sadly, according to the NIH, smoking cessation research doesn't even make it to top 25 development areas. Treating cancer seems to be more important than preventing it.
Karen, please don't participate in the anti-electronic-cigarette hysteria. FDA found a trace of tobacco by-product in one of the liquids used by e-cigarettes and is preparing to ban these devices. For many of us that means that the next liquid we'll use may be chemotherapy. Please help. Please do it for all fathers that can still survive their nicotine addiction thanks to this life-saving technology.
Karen Stabiner is the embodiment of the phrase "Better to stay silent and be considered an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I'm starting to have a bit of a problem being patient and writing calm, rational responses to this sort of junk these days. My comment:
There are nitrosamines in condoms - should we stop selling them and deal with STDs instead?
There are nitrosamines in beer, meat, cheese and fish - should they all be banned?
There are nitrosamines in latex products - should surgeons operate with their bare hands?
There's danger in our world every way you turn. Instead of condemning electronic cigarettes, you should be applauding the technology that is allowing ex-smokers who are unable to quit using FDA approved products (which, by the way have a longterm success rate of well under 10%) to finally throw their cigarettes away.
After 40 years of smoking, it is working for me - and thousands of others. You're way off base.
There are nitrosamines in condoms - should we stop selling them and deal with STDs instead?
There are nitrosamines in beer, meat, cheese and fish - should they all be banned?
There are nitrosamines in latex products - should surgeons operate with their bare hands?
There's danger in our world every way you turn. Instead of condemning electronic cigarettes, you should be applauding the technology that is allowing ex-smokers who are unable to quit using FDA approved products (which, by the way have a longterm success rate of well under 10%) to finally throw their cigarettes away.
After 40 years of smoking, it is working for me - and thousands of others. You're way off base.
Sar, i didn't mean to suggest we shouldn't participate because it's a lefty site, i was just pointing out that both sides have their pet exceptions to their own "freedom" rhetoric, and this is one of the left's (and the gun bugaboo, as Dune pointed out).
Anyway, here's my comment attempting to point out the hypocrisy by comparing it to the logic of their erstwhile "opposition":
"This article sounds like the knee-jerk arguments against harm reduction in other areas of drug policy:
They'd rather see the spread of AIDS than allow needle exchanges, and see people dropping like flies from overdoses than abandon their "zero tolerance" (remember tolerance?) policy and be perceived as "condoning" drug use. Naloxone is out, because with an overdose remedy available, more people might use *smack*, and those doing it might not quit! Overdose is a GOOD thing in these people's twisted minds, because death is a deterrent!
And we can't use e-cigs to drastically reduce the risk of cancer and other horrors - including totally removing the risk to bystanders since there is no smoke and the vapor evaporates immediately - because (in my best Sara Palin) "GOLLY! People might USE them!".. And LIVE!!
And the fact that they actually TASTE good is just beyond the pale.. an enjoyable indulgence with minimal health consequences? Why, that's just downright.. CONSTITUTIONAL!!
Heaven forbid.."
BTW some of the comments posted here last night are up now. Huffpo's moderated but not overly censorious.
Anyway, here's my comment attempting to point out the hypocrisy by comparing it to the logic of their erstwhile "opposition":
"This article sounds like the knee-jerk arguments against harm reduction in other areas of drug policy:
They'd rather see the spread of AIDS than allow needle exchanges, and see people dropping like flies from overdoses than abandon their "zero tolerance" (remember tolerance?) policy and be perceived as "condoning" drug use. Naloxone is out, because with an overdose remedy available, more people might use *smack*, and those doing it might not quit! Overdose is a GOOD thing in these people's twisted minds, because death is a deterrent!
And we can't use e-cigs to drastically reduce the risk of cancer and other horrors - including totally removing the risk to bystanders since there is no smoke and the vapor evaporates immediately - because (in my best Sara Palin) "GOLLY! People might USE them!".. And LIVE!!
And the fact that they actually TASTE good is just beyond the pale.. an enjoyable indulgence with minimal health consequences? Why, that's just downright.. CONSTITUTIONAL!!
Heaven forbid.."
BTW some of the comments posted here last night are up now. Huffpo's moderated but not overly censorious.
Nice comments everyone, especially RR!!
Here's mine pending approval
I'm sure most e-cig users would accept and would expect that e-cigarettes are not 100% consequence and risk-free. But we're also sure that these can't possibly be worse than regular cigarettes. I'd rather not bandy about the bush and call it an "alternative" to smoking. Let's be honest, most of us use this as nicotine replacement, and it works for us. It replaces our need for nicotine, so it fits under the NRT definition even without the FDA's blessing.
And NO, contrary to what you presuppose, e-cigs are not part of "the tobacco industry." The world isn't made up of corporate conglomerates with the express mission to make your life horrible and give you something to complain about. Please grow up.
I've tried many forms of NRT and I've done my research; I've even WORKED for Nicorette and Nicoderm.
If the FDA is willing to conduct extensive trials and regulate the production of these devices, I'm all for it. I'm equally fine with any taxes they put on it, within reason. I just don't want them to take further steps and ban it; because then I'll be smoking again. Or possibly breaking the law by using an illegal product.
I can't assume a non-smoker would understand. From the outside it seems so simple: why don't you guys just quit? It can't be that hard, right? Addictions are addictions. Just as dieters have trouble losing weight and sticking with it, smokers will always be struggling.
Here's mine pending approval
I'm sure most e-cig users would accept and would expect that e-cigarettes are not 100% consequence and risk-free. But we're also sure that these can't possibly be worse than regular cigarettes. I'd rather not bandy about the bush and call it an "alternative" to smoking. Let's be honest, most of us use this as nicotine replacement, and it works for us. It replaces our need for nicotine, so it fits under the NRT definition even without the FDA's blessing.
And NO, contrary to what you presuppose, e-cigs are not part of "the tobacco industry." The world isn't made up of corporate conglomerates with the express mission to make your life horrible and give you something to complain about. Please grow up.
I've tried many forms of NRT and I've done my research; I've even WORKED for Nicorette and Nicoderm.
If the FDA is willing to conduct extensive trials and regulate the production of these devices, I'm all for it. I'm equally fine with any taxes they put on it, within reason. I just don't want them to take further steps and ban it; because then I'll be smoking again. Or possibly breaking the law by using an illegal product.
I can't assume a non-smoker would understand. From the outside it seems so simple: why don't you guys just quit? It can't be that hard, right? Addictions are addictions. Just as dieters have trouble losing weight and sticking with it, smokers will always be struggling.
Don't laugh too hard...it's extra ammunition for the Pope and other supporters of abstinence-only education.
"Uh uh. You don't get to Palinize me,"...Priceless. Guess my previous post concerning her car,Al Gore,and conspiracy theories was spot on.....
The loonbat is responding to some of your comments!!!
I prefer not to stroke her ego and she CANNOT be debated with. She is not the type to take any factual information into account.She has a predisposed view of E cigs and NOTHING you say or show will change that.
Your all idiots in her view. Anyone who opposes her views is. Shes a far left elitest snob who is smarter than you,and knows whats best for you..Just go look at the TONE of what shes wrote back.Its full of "how dare you im so and so!!!!"...And then she plays the "kid card". Always have to fall back on the "kid card". Vaping is one part fun,2 parts chem lab. Kids would just assume flick a Bic and light up a Marlboro if given the option.
And for that, all she deserves from me is a one fingered salute with a smile on my vapor exhaling face.
The loonbat is responding to some of your comments!!!
I prefer not to stroke her ego and she CANNOT be debated with. She is not the type to take any factual information into account.She has a predisposed view of E cigs and NOTHING you say or show will change that.
Your all idiots in her view. Anyone who opposes her views is. Shes a far left elitest snob who is smarter than you,and knows whats best for you..Just go look at the TONE of what shes wrote back.Its full of "how dare you im so and so!!!!"...And then she plays the "kid card". Always have to fall back on the "kid card". Vaping is one part fun,2 parts chem lab. Kids would just assume flick a Bic and light up a Marlboro if given the option.
And for that, all she deserves from me is a one fingered salute with a smile on my vapor exhaling face.
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Hmm i've been reading her replies.
I think she's changing her view a bit actually as we've been giving her more and more information. I really think she just took the FDA report and ran with it because she was predisposed to be anti-smoking anything, not entirely her fault in my opinion.
Normally i'm very anti-blog but the Huff Post is read by SO many people we can't ignore it. I'm going to try and be a bit more conciliatory (I did tell her to grow up...oops).
Let's look at Huff Post as a place in a public space to make an argument and change an opinion. In the end, she's got one hell of a following and if we can help educate her on our point of view, all the better.
I don't like liberals or conservatives and the Huff Post can be pretty liberal, but I don't think she's a mindless automaton and would be willing to listen if we gave her a chance.
I think she's changing her view a bit actually as we've been giving her more and more information. I really think she just took the FDA report and ran with it because she was predisposed to be anti-smoking anything, not entirely her fault in my opinion.
Normally i'm very anti-blog but the Huff Post is read by SO many people we can't ignore it. I'm going to try and be a bit more conciliatory (I did tell her to grow up...oops).
Let's look at Huff Post as a place in a public space to make an argument and change an opinion. In the end, she's got one hell of a following and if we can help educate her on our point of view, all the better.
I don't like liberals or conservatives and the Huff Post can be pretty liberal, but I don't think she's a mindless automaton and would be willing to listen if we gave her a chance.
In response to another of her "targeted to kids" posts I wrote:
Without regulation the suppliers of these flavored nicotine juices have implemented more measures than FDA approved, and regulated, NRT's. Whether it's by convenience, accessibility, or visibility; e-cigarettes are, by far, harder to obtain than those NRT's at your local ***greens/***mart/.
By no means, method, or mode does this argument play out in your favor. Yes, they are flavored, but that does not inherently equal a marketing plan for kids. The marketing plan is for the adult users who have regained their tastebuds and realized that tobacco, even its flavor, is nasty. So suppliers provide an alternative. Kids with a craving for candy flavored nicotine can attain it cheaper, with less hassle, in an acceptable little candy form, that is easily hidden from authority, right on the neighborhood corner.
Your logos, pathos, and ethos have all been found wanting. In this you are wrong. There are many other worthy items that target children worth demonizing, e-cigarettes are not one of them.
Without regulation the suppliers of these flavored nicotine juices have implemented more measures than FDA approved, and regulated, NRT's. Whether it's by convenience, accessibility, or visibility; e-cigarettes are, by far, harder to obtain than those NRT's at your local ***greens/***mart/.
By no means, method, or mode does this argument play out in your favor. Yes, they are flavored, but that does not inherently equal a marketing plan for kids. The marketing plan is for the adult users who have regained their tastebuds and realized that tobacco, even its flavor, is nasty. So suppliers provide an alternative. Kids with a craving for candy flavored nicotine can attain it cheaper, with less hassle, in an acceptable little candy form, that is easily hidden from authority, right on the neighborhood corner.
Your logos, pathos, and ethos have all been found wanting. In this you are wrong. There are many other worthy items that target children worth demonizing, e-cigarettes are not one of them.
OK..I broke down and responded to her..Im sure it wont make the cut.....
You know Ive never seen or have any interest in "bubblegum" flavored vape.
But since when did Bubble gum flavors,Jello Pudding pops,Nerds candy,or whatever become 17 years and UNDER ONLY? What? Is this off limits for adults??
If I want a vape that tastes like tabacco,Bubblegum,dog poop,or whatever...SO WHAT???
You dont see commericals for the "Ultra Vape 5000" on Nickelodeon.I should know as my 5 year old loves the channel.
Stop playing the "kid card" please.
P.S. I would never attempt to "Palinize" you. I havent read anything yet that would make me even consider putting you at her level.
You know Ive never seen or have any interest in "bubblegum" flavored vape.
But since when did Bubble gum flavors,Jello Pudding pops,Nerds candy,or whatever become 17 years and UNDER ONLY? What? Is this off limits for adults??
If I want a vape that tastes like tabacco,Bubblegum,dog poop,or whatever...SO WHAT???
You dont see commericals for the "Ultra Vape 5000" on Nickelodeon.I should know as my 5 year old loves the channel.
Stop playing the "kid card" please.
P.S. I would never attempt to "Palinize" you. I havent read anything yet that would make me even consider putting you at her level.
good for you Rorschach.. diplomacy isn't my longsuit, hehe, but someone's gotta do it, and you do catch more flies with honey..
she's right about one thing though, we all DO need to go to U S Food and Drug Administration Home Page and speak our minds (diplomatically)
"Palinisation", LOL.. a meme is born
she's right about one thing though, we all DO need to go to U S Food and Drug Administration Home Page and speak our minds (diplomatically
)"Palinisation", LOL.. a meme is born
Short time lurker, first time poster.
I found this post while looking for info on e-cigs and the amount of running with ridiculous assumptions was infuriating. Mind, I didn't even get my 510 in the mail yet.
I am a professional blogger writing for a well known blog. I wonder if they'd let me do a rebuttal? I could wipe the floor with her!
I found this post while looking for info on e-cigs and the amount of running with ridiculous assumptions was infuriating. Mind, I didn't even get my 510 in the mail yet.
I am a professional blogger writing for a well known blog. I wonder if they'd let me do a rebuttal? I could wipe the floor with her!
Well registration doesnt take but a minute there.
Dont even have to check your email to activate it.
Have fun and post it here too if you would!
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Have fun and post it here too if you would!
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