Huffington Post Blog

[Ana Ng]

Well, I think you all probably took care of what could be said in the comments.

I'm not sure I'll love vaping but I think I will. I started as a clove smoker, and never smoked til I was 27. My husband decided to leave and financially screwed me and my two kids over. We had to move 4 times in 5 months while he had a big apartment in brooklyn to himself. It was incredibly stressful and it was smoke or jump out of my skin.

I'm also a Libertarian and the idea that people will just ban something that can clearly benefit so many people is really frustrating. I don't want to look at people wearing skinny jeans or listening to Katy Perry but I don't seek to ban it just cause I hate it.

Parents smoke, and taking away this option because of taxes or nanny-state pandering is just so wrong. Maybe I'll hate it and be back on analogs but just the fact that this woman lumped e-cigs in with tobacco manufacturers shows a level of ignorance that needs to be corrected. >grumble<

 

[Porphy]

I don't want to look at people wearing skinny jeans or listening to Katy Perry but I don't seek to ban it just cause I hate it.

*dashes to slip on skinny jeans*

~Your hot then your cold
~Your yes then your no
~Your in then your out
~Your up then your down

</insert overly peppy house techno wanna-be beat>***</i>

<---- Closet Eater

 

[BigJimW]

Hopefully they'll post my response this time around

Karen, the FDA lied to the American people and it counted on reporters like you to spread that. Make no mistake, the FDA held on that "report" about electronic cigarettes for over 2 months before making it public. And the only reason it did so was because of a pending decision regarding a lawsuit that njoy/Smoking Everywhere vs the FDA has going on in Federal Court.

A study in New Zealand last year did not come up with any of the trace elements of carcinogens that this so called FDA "report" came out with.

It is so obvious as to what the FDA is trying to accomplish (remove e-cigs and get people back to smoking the real things) that even the NON smokers I've talked with see through it. Eventually it will backfire and destroy the FDAs reputation and credibility (not like they had much to begin with).

When you sit back and think about how much $$$ was lost to these things, you will have an understanding as to WHY they want to remove electronic cigarettes from the market altogether. And smear the reputation.

I too feel your pain in losing a loved one to cancer. I lost my dad to it back in '95. For me I am in the hurt locker as a smoker. If there is something in these things that are bad for me, my body has yet to alert me to it. That is saying something.

 

[DuneBuggy]

Good post Jim,but can you edit somthing over there on it??
The New Zealand report DID show some trace elements of "carcinogens".They were about on par with what Nicorette gum has in it in their report.
Which was MINISCULE compared to what a analog has in it.

 

[Sar]

Oh, I couldn't resist. Someone posted a link to rather incredible Fox News broadcast in a different thread about electronic cigarettes and I posted it in a comment:


Karen, of course you are not alone in your views. Your views are shared by some great journalists as can be seen in the following newscast about electronic cigarettes.

That the Huffington Post is giving you this platform to speak from is a sign that liberals are breaking the divide and welcome opposing views.

Cronkite who?
YouTube - Unhealthy Alternative to Smoking

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Was that an actual broadcast or were those freshman journalism majors figuring out how to act in front of a camera?

Aside from misleading information, it was painful to watch.

Good find Sar... I think

 

[Sar]

Was that an actual broadcast or were those freshman journalism majors figuring out how to act in front of a camera?

Aside from misleading information, it was painful to watch.

Good find Sar... I think

The credit for the find goes to someone else, I just can't find the post right now. The thing is that Fox News is a major and extremely popular outlet. How can such organization broadcast this?

I am not making a comment about liberal vs conservative -- couldn't care less. What bothers me is that there is no standard anymore. There used to be great voices on both sides and now it is just drivel.

You can read misguided voice writing about evils of ecigarettes on the liberal Huffington Post too. Just sad.

 

[vaporich]

We were all kids once, and if we wanted to try something we would do whatever we had to, to try it. I doubt a kid, knows how to find a ecig supplier. basically, the conspiring goverment agency is looking for any angle they can use, since they know there day of big tobacco money are slowly gonna dwindle. We need s. baren cohen to go undercover on the FDA, and release a movie on all this bullcrap. Im sure it would be a riot. lol.
A released documentary would probably be the easiest way to market our point.
just making suggestions.
By the way, the above mentioned clip was really painfal too watch. This is what happens to journalism, when all fox does is pick models to put on tv. clearly evident anymore.

 

[Al Bundy]

Karen is another ignorant liberal. I'm amazed at how utterly devoid of facts and logic that pathetic diatribe of a blog was for someone who has written eight books. The problem we vapers face are the irrational people who base their decisions primarily on emotional discontinuities.

Karen and her ilk will fail. They'll get my pv when they pry it from my cold dead hands.

 

[Porphy]

EDIT - OMG sorry didn't even realize I made a wall of text.

WTF man. FOX is on my last nerve and I used to love FOX. First this report is just... well no need to say it here we all know. However, I tried to post a comment on their site and it blocked me because I'm in S. Korea!!!! They have no care or concern for their international audience--some of which are AMERICANS like me!

Anywho *releases the steam valve* they've lost my faith 10 times over now. You realize that once you see real, factual reporting how impotent these biased networks are.

This isn't a left or right situation BTW. I see a lot of people blasting Karen Whats-er-face for being a "liberal idiot" etc. First off, that mode of thinking is just off center and deep down most people know it. There are sensible advocates for causes on both sides of the fence and the 'moderate' population in the U.S. is higher than ever. That aside it's both sides that are jumping on the FDA bandwagon because they have no idea how to actually report stories anymore. You can tell that little to no research is involved when a 13 year old can do a fact check on a post through Google and refute a graduated reporters claims... in less than 5 minutes.

BTW, I had my 13 year old Korean student research this issue for himself in class today. Yes, to help him study English but to be honest I wanted to see what his view point would be when he was done. I gave him the topic and let him go. He had 30 minutes to compile an oral report.

5 mins later he was standing in front of my desk and here's what he said (as best as I can convey over a post--you miss so much in the accent LOL)

Student - "Teacher, The FDA (pronounced eepp-dee-ay). I do not think that they know your government (typical trouble pronouncing the 'V'...we'll work on it).

Me - "What do you mean? Please be more specific."

Student - "Teacher, (it's a custom to address a teacher first then state your thought hence why he always says 'teacher' first lol) I think many people like the Eh-cigarette and it is good for your well-being. The FDA is wrong and it is not good. I think people will not be as... healthy(translated)... if the Eh-cigarette goes away."

Me - "Okaaaay, but why did you say 'they don't like the government'?"

Student - "Teacher, you said to us (the kids) that American government helps American people--"

Me - "I said they 'protect' the American people that is not the same as 'help'.

Student - "Okay protect. Teacher, they (FDA) do not protect the people with this."

---------------------------

It wasn't an eloquent discussion--and some was translated from Korean (the protect vs. help concept)-- but even a 13 year old kid, with English as his second language, at a level 2 competency (decent but not great), in another country, with minimal grasps on what the FDA is and does and how the US government and media work....even he was able to get to the principle idea behind the debate.

I was proud. Even if he had "ruled" in favor of the FDA his ability to grasp the subject and do earnest research made my day. He could have been studying mouse farts or apples for all I care. This just goes to show that either the media is biased beyond all moral and ethical scopes or they just don't know HOW to research a topic, a.k.a. report on news.

 

[Sar]

EDIT - OMG sorry didn't even realize I made a wall of text.
...

Not at all. That was a great story. In a way, your student might be learning a new language, but already has what many of these "journalists" lack: critical thinking ability.

What good journalism used to be before it turned into PR machine was a filter of BS. That is gone now. FDA prepared the "summary" knowing that the journalists need "talking points" -- so they created them, even included the reference to antifreeze as a hook. They knew that our journalists will repeat that SHOCKING "fact," the same way they knew that the journalists covering this report will not read the actual report itself!!!

FDA's report was a PR campaign created for journalists that no longer question and are not able to contextualize.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

The credit for the find goes to someone else, I just can't find the post right now. The thing is that Fox News is a major and extremely popular outlet. How can such organization broadcast this?

I am not making a comment about liberal vs conservative -- couldn't care less. What bothers me is that there is no standard anymore. There used to be great voices on both sides and now it is just drivel.

You can read misguided voice writing about evils of ecigarettes on the liberal Huffington Post too. Just sad.

I couldn't agree more regarding liberal vs conservative. When it comes down to it and you do research on smoking bans, republican and democrat governors are BOTH on this so it isn't a side issue.

This issue doesn't have side. And apparently, neither does ignorance.

Good lord... it is time for a third party to make some major steam and knock both sides on their ..... (That's as political as I am going to get)

I also couldn't agree more that this new media that has popped up delivering the "news" is atrocious. One journalist openly admitted on this forum that these days, they get paid so little for an article that research is just not of a concern. WTF is that?

 

[ramblingrose]

OK..I broke down and responded to her..Im sure it wont make the cut.....


You know Ive never seen or have any interest in "bubblegum" flavored vape.

I know this is off topic, but I was surprised to find I like bubblegum a lot. I'm picky with my flavors - don't like menthol, fruits or tobacco. Give me warm flavors like butterscotch, ry4 or peanut butter and I'm a happy camper. And, for some reason, bubblegum. Yummmm.

 

[Sar]

I know this is off topic, but I was surprised to find I like bubblegum a lot. ...

You are posting this at 9 AM? You should be in school! What grade are you in? Does your mom know that you are interested in vaping?

 

[Rorschach]

Karen and the Huff Post like to Question things with a capital Q. I really think we should be as conciliatory as possible and urge them in the right direction to Question the FDA as well as the other news outlets which have come out against us.

I don't think she's too proud not to admit her error, despite what some may think. As I mentioned before her and the Huff Post have HUGE readership and we should see this as an opportunity rather than another threat.

As Dr. Horrible said: "We must change the status quo, because the status is too....quo."

 

[Sar]

... I don't think she's too proud not to admit her error, despite what some may think. ...

I have never even heard about her before this, so I don't know what to think. But she did allow all my comments on her blog so that is good. Is there any record of her publicly changing her view?

The thing is we don't have much time and we probably can't afford to be meek. The FDA machine is moving already -- as soon as it builds enough momentum it will be unstoppable.

 

[susan28]

Oh, I couldn't resist. Someone posted a link to rather incredible Fox News broadcast in a different thread about electronic cigarettes and I posted it in a comment:


Karen, of course you are not alone in your views. Your views are shared by some great journalists as can be seen in the following newscast about electronic cigarettes.

That the Huffington Post is giving you this platform to speak from is a sign that liberals are breaking the divide and welcome opposing views.

Cronkite who?
YouTube - Unhealthy Alternative to Smoking

Sar: Uh-uh. You don't get to Foxise her

Ana: i suppose you're aware of the clove cig ban that goes into effect on 9/22. that's all i've ever smoked and turned to e-cigs rather than smoking crap-flavoured analogs to replace them, now they're going after e-cigs for the same pathetic, condescending reason.

Porphy: The young Grasshopper did well! Either he's wise beyond his years or our media is either permanently developmentally stunted or bought and paid for. They could probably benefit from some time in your classroom. As could we all. Your criticism of the partisanship that's wrecking the country is duly noted. i do think Katherine what's-her-name is guilty of some of that though, with her fixation on "Big" (insert business sector here, in this case tobacco). And the "Big" (whatevers) are certainly deserving of much of the criticisms leveled against them vis a vis manipulating policy in their favour, and contrary to Katherine W-H-N's assertion, Big Tobacco is almost certainly against e-cigs, as are the gov types who depend on its massive tax revenue.

It should also be noted that the clove ban i'm so miffed about had massive bipartisan support, first and foremost by "Big Tobacco" and their Congressional allies, as that law also curtails advertising and any new brand entries, effectively freezing in place the current competitive rankings and leaving the beknighted Menthol brands untouched. So there it is. Money talks, and the "for the children" types are just useful (bipartisan) idiots for the various industrial Titans - and i ain't talkin' 501's!

 

[RandallFlagg]

Found this posted at the Huffington Post today. I don't think it's been posted here as of yet. Also don't know if I can post links, but I'll try and if not, maybe someone else could do it.

The blog post is pretty much the same tripe we've been hearing and reading. I've posted responses and I think some others should point out her ignorance on the topic, if you're so incline that is

Karen Stabiner: Small Good News: Bringing Big Tobacco To Its Battery-Powered Knees

Oh, boy.
That was the first (and last) time I ever visit that site. What a dolt.
However, she seems to equate to her love (lust) for bigger government to take over everything bought and sold.
It's nice to see that the majority view is opposing what she wrote.

Anyhoo, welcome to the forum here. I see that you're in Aurora. The Village Inn on I-25 and 84th is vaper friendly. Just so you know.

 

[RandallFlagg]

BTW, this, "Karen Stabiner," added a few more words at the end of her post just now. Adding the FDA site is accepting commentary on tobacco. I guess all of the negative posts on her little blog have made her a little nervous.

 

[Kate51]

Spoken like true scientific dweebs. Disgusting. My nicotine level has dropped again!!!!!!!
I dropped from 200-500 ng/ml down to 100-200 ng/ml by testing. They should see our Nicotine Testing Thread. More to come there later.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/24062-home-test-nicotine-blood-levels.html