Hyon USA President Addresses Cease and Desist Situaton

[RPadTV]

Here's a chat with Hyon USA president Fernando Solis. The company has had a controversial situation regarding its Pi2 atomizer. While many Internet denizens have been slamming Hyon without fully understanding the situation, I wanted to give the company time to get their side of the story out there.

Check out the full story for more background info.

 

[smacuser]

You da man!

 

[Bad Ninja]

Aren't these the guys that threatened reviewers etc?

Don't these always go badly for the guys doing the threatening?

 

[Alien Traveler]

15 minutes to watch without even knowing what it is about? Sorry.

 

[Completely Average]

Here's the story in a nutshell.

Mod maker anticipates some poor reviews, so he gets lawyers to send out bogus cease and desist letters claiming trademark infringement to reviewers to keep them from posting said negative reviews.

Here's the problem (Other than the obvious fact that such an act screams that the mods in question must suck really bad).

Trademark infringement cases only apply to people selling a similar product using a similar trademark. The Hana Modz clones with logos was a good example of a valid trademark dispute. In this case though the letters were sent to reviewers who are NOT selling anything, they are legally considered members of the media and thus protected by their 1st Amendment rights to free speech. The letters were a malicious attempt to try to bully reviewers into either giving favorable reviews or not releasing a review at all.

The actions of Fernando Solis and his company was in fact an illegal attempt to deprive people of their legal right to express their opinion. His letters have no merit and personally I would LOVE to see him actually try to take anyone to court only to be countersued for fraud and misuse of legal complaints. The video is just 15 minutes of him trying to justify why he believes being an illegal bully is acceptable.

 

[skoony]

Here's the story in a nutshell.

Mod maker anticipates some poor reviews, so he gets lawyers to send out bogus cease and desist letters claiming trademark infringement to reviewers to keep them from posting said negative reviews.

Here's the problem (Other than the obvious fact that such an act screams that the mods in question must suck really bad).

Trademark infringement cases only apply to people selling a similar product using a similar trademark. The Hana Modz clones with logos was a good example of a valid trademark dispute. In this case though the letters were sent to reviewers who are NOT selling anything, they are legally considered members of the media and thus protected by their 1st Amendment rights to free speech. The letters were a malicious attempt to try to bully reviewers into either giving favorable reviews or not releasing a review at all.

The actions of Fernando Solis and his company was in fact an illegal attempt to deprive people of their legal right to express their opinion. His letters have no merit and personally I would LOVE to see him actually try to take anyone to court only to be countersued for fraud and misuse of legal complaints. The video is just 15 minutes of him trying to justify why he believes being an illegal bully is acceptable.

of course if what you have said is in fact the truth you might be on to something.
after watching the video Hyons decision doesn't appear to be out of line.
it appears to me Hyons concern is that people are reviewing knock off
products and or comparing them unfavorably to those knock off products.
quite frankly i would be concerned.
word out to reviewers. everything you do is not protected by the 1st Amendment
regards
mike

 

[Bad Ninja]

of course if what you have said is in fact the truth you might be on to something.
after watching the video Hyons decision doesn't appear to be out of line.
it appears to me Hyons concern is that people are reviewing knock off
products and or comparing them unfavorably to those knock off products.
quite frankly i would be concerned.
word out to reviewers. everything you do is not protected by the 1st Amendment
regards
mike

Fernando knows he screwed the pooch.
He knew exactly what he was doing.

"Oh the threats weren't threats..
I Only wanted to open a dialogue"..
WTH?

Is he really that dumb or does he think we are?


Hyon suicided their business. They deserve the backlash.
They dug their own hole, loudly and proudly.



FYI: those trademark lawsuits only work on resellers.
You can't censor public opinion, and buying a clone isn't infringement.

Fear mongering and threats are laughable and juvenile.

Amateur hour in the vape industry as usual.

 

[Completely Average]

of course if what you have said is in fact the truth you might be on to something.
after watching the video Hyons decision doesn't appear to be out of line.
it appears to me Hyons concern is that people are reviewing knock off products

People have the right to review whatever they want. As long as the review is honest then there is nothing to complain about.

and or comparing them unfavorably to those knock off products.
quite frankly i would be concerned.

I would be concerned that a knock off product is better than their own. If a knock off is better then their own product is a POS. I suspect this is the real reason behind their letters. They made a piece of junk and knew reviewers were going to give it bad reviews because it is a piece of junk so they tried to use lawyers to threaten reviewers, hoping to keep the bad reviews off the internet.

They'll fail in that endeavor, and this thread shows quite well what will really happen. Now people have a really good reason not to trust them. I know just based off their reaction and willingness to threaten reviewers with legal letters before even reading or hearing the review that I would never buy their products. Any business that conducts such shady practices should be boycotted, black listed, and forced into bankruptcy.

word out to reviewers. everything you do is not protected by the 1st Amendment
regards
mike

Word out to you. YES IT IS.

I can say whatever I want. Unless you can prove that what I've said is both a deliberate lie and was said to deliberately harm your company then you have absolutely no case against me. As long as I tell the truth then I have the right to say whatever I want no matter how much harm it does to you. If your company makes junk and I tell the world that it's junk that's your problem, not mine.


Here's a prime example of just how much rights a reviewer really has....

This book forced the Chevrolet Corvair off the market FOREVER. Chevy couldn't do a thing to the author because everything he said about the car was true. The same can be done this company, and IMO it SHOULD be done to this company, just to teach them a lesson about legal protections. Reviews are NOT trademark infringements, and no company has the right to send "cease and desist" letters to reviewers BEFORE THEY'VE EVEN WRITTEN A REVIEW OF THE PRODUCT. If you want to try to prove liable and slander, go for it, but trying to pre-emptively send a cease and desist letter is an unjustifiable violation of their Constitutional rights to write product reviews.

 

[skoony]

Fernando knows he screwed the pooch.
He knew exactly what he was doing.

"Oh the threats weren't threats..
I Only wanted to open a dialogue"..
WTH?

Is he really that dumb or does he think we are?


Hyon suicided their business. They deserve the backlash.
They dug their own hole, loudly and proudly.



FYI: those trademark lawsuits only work on resellers.
You can't censor public opinion, and buying a clone isn't infringement.

Fear mongering and threats are laughable and juvenile.

Amateur hour in the vape industry as usual.

what did Hyon do exactly?
buying a clone might not technically be infringement of
trademark laws but,recommending counterfeit products to customers
isn't protected by the first amendment.
your right in saying you can't censor public opinion however
as a reviewer your considered an expert in the eye's of the
law and held to a higher standard. your opinion does not
allow you to endorse counterfeit products.
my point is from the outside this looks like a witch hunt.
two party's are having a dispute that is all.
how about we let them settle their disputes all by
themselves like adults would?


mike

 

[skoony]

Word out to you. YES IT IS.

I can say whatever I want. Unless you can prove that what I've said is both a deliberate lie and was said to deliberately harm your company then you have absolutely no case against me. As long as I tell the truth then I have the right to say whatever I want no matter how much harm it does to you. If your company makes junk and I tell the world that it's junk that's your problem, not mine.

as a reviewer you are considered an expert in the eyes of the law. as such
you are held to a higher standard. you can say what you want go ahead.
be ready to prove it.

I would be concerned that a knock off product is better than their own. If a knock off is better then their own product is a POS. I suspect this is the real reason behind their letters. They made a piece of junk and knew reviewers were going to give it bad reviews because it is a piece of junk so they tried to use lawyers to threaten reviewers, hoping to keep the bad reviews off the internet.

you better be able to prove their product is junk to a legal standard while
at the same time promoting counterfeit products. is that what you are saying?

regards
mike

 

[Bad Ninja]

He threatened reviewers of a "somewhat" clone of a design with lawsuits. ( actually not his design, but that's another story).

He attempted to suppress public opinion of a product similar to his, but 1/10th the cost.

Not vendors, not stores, not resellers...
Reviewers.

He tried to silence facts.

Unprofessionalism at it's worst.

Sure he made a point, at the cost if his companies image.

Poor management, unlrofessionism, and borderline criminal.

 

[Bad Ninja]

as a reviewer you are considered an expert in the eyes of the law. as such
you are held to a higher standard. you can say what you want go ahead

No, you are not "legally considered an expert" if you offer a review.

That's completely false.
Utter BS.

There is no legal precedence for that statement.

 

[skoony]

No, you are not "legally considered an expert" if you offer a review.

That's completely false.
Utter BS.

There is no legal precedence for that statement.

there's a reason food critics can't call a restaurants food poison
unless they can prove it is.
if you call yourself a reviewer you are saying you have extra-special
knowledge and expertise in the subject manner you are reviewing.
whether you do or not is beside the point. you are no longer just
Joe the Rag man standing on some street corner.what you say
affects peoples decisions concerning their purchases of products.
as such your responsibility is not only to the consumers,it also
implies a responsibility to the company of the products you are
reviewing. if you are going to trash a product be prepared to
have the technical expertise and proof of your claims.
as a reviewer that is your responsibility. we are not talking
about a revue someone may post on a product sight after
purchasing a product. we are talking about people who claim
to be reviewers of products and it is their business to do so.
they actively seek products to review for their viewers.
its time a little professionalism comes to the e-cigarette industry.
what i am saying is not bs. ask any food critic.

regards
mike

 

[skoony]

Poor management, unlrofessionism, and borderline criminal.

how is trying to protect your product line borderline criminal?

mike

 

[Bad Ninja]

how is trying to protect your product line borderline criminal?

mike

He's not threatening reviewers of his own product.

He is threatening reviewers of the "evil monk" atomizer by IVOGO.
It uses a similar ( but not exact postless Coil attachment system neither company invented).

He wants to stop reviews of clones because he knows a $20 atty can perform as well as his $210 atty.

He's trying to manipulate public opinion through censorship of facts.

When he got called out on it, he claimed he "only wanted to open dialogue, not threaten"

Riiiiiiight.
What an amateur

 

[skoony]

He's not threatening reviewers of his own product.

He is threatening reviewers of the "evil monk" atomizer by IVOGO.
It uses a similar ( but not exact postless Coil attachment system neither company invented).

He wants to stop reviews of clones because he knows a $20 atty can perform as well as his $210 atty.

He's trying to manipulate public opinion through censorship of facts.

but are those the facts?
if they are have the reviewers prove it.
it could just as well be the reviewers are not
telling the truth.
what if i say the reviewers are getting a piece of the action
and are trashing one product to get sales for the others?
i can't prove that but is it ok for me to say that?
no,of course not.
neither you nor i know the facts. only what the reviewers say
verses what Hyon says.
i watched the video. i was impressed. seemed to be
a reasonable guy. he had no horns anyway.

regards
mike

 

[Bad Ninja]

but are those the facts?
if they are have the reviewers prove it.
it could just as well be the reviewers are not
telling the truth.
what if i say the reviewers are getting a piece of the action
and are trashing one product to get sales for the others?
i can't prove that but is it ok for me to say that?
no,of course not.
neither you nor i know the facts. only what the reviewers say
verses what Hyon says.
i watched the video. i was impressed. seemed to be
a reasonable guy. he had no horns anyway.

regards
mike

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Feathers, webbed feet and all......It's usually a duck.

I think it's pretty obvious here he made a mistake and this is an attempt at damage control.

He doesn't have horns... He just wasn't very smart when it came to making business decisions regarding this matter.


Ivogo isn't paying off reviewers.
It wouldn't make sense.
They don't have to.
They are a bigger company with a much larger customer base than Hyon.
Hyon isn't a threat to them. They could however be a threat to companies like Hyon based on pricing alone.


Let's face it.. Dude made a bad move, hurt his image and is trying to clean up his mess.


He should just focus on his own product and customers instead of trying to fight with the only real advertising platform this industry has right now.
Reviewers.

 

[skoony]

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... Feathers, webbed feet and all......It's usually a duck.

I think it's pretty obvious here he made a mistake and this is an attempt at damage control.

He doesn't have horns... He just wasn't very smart when it came to making business decisions regarding this matter.


Ivogo isn't paying off reviewers.
It wouldn't make sense.
They don't have to.
They are a bigger company with a much larger customer base than Hyon.
Hyon isn't a threat to them. They could however be a threat to companies like Hyon based on pricing alone.


Let's face it.. Dude made a bad move, hurt his image and is trying to clean up his mess.


He should just focus on his own product and customers instead of trying to fight with the only real advertising platform this industry has right now.
Reviewers.

that's the problem. there is nothing obvious here.
1. a cease and desist is not a threat.its a perfunctory
legal notice. it does not nor can censor anything.
2. the only ones trying to sway public opinion are the
reviewers in question and their minions.
3. i never said anyone was paying off anyone.
i was asking if i said such thing would it be ok?
apparently reviewers can say anything. their trying
to censor me. their trying to sway public opinion.
they are trying to deceive "the customer".
Hyon is doing none of this. if being asked to address
certain legal concerns Hyon has is censorship
i'll eat my hat.that's all that's happening.
from my point of view Hyon has done nothing
to merit such derision that is being spewed about.
these things happen on a daily basis in the real business
world. why does everyone get bent out of shape that
it happens in the "vaping community"?
this is a sign of a growing and maturing market.
no reason to go overboard.

regards
mike

 

[Traijan]

So, trying to figure this out....

1. Reviewers got some sort of clone type of item from Haus of Zombies and did reviews on them.
2. This guy at Hyon sent cease and desist orders to the reviewers to not review somebody elses product? Because he couldn't stop the cloners from making a clone so attack the reviewer instead?

 

[skoony]

So, trying to figure this out....

1. Reviewers got some sort of clone type of item from Haus of Zombies and did reviews on them.
2. This guy at Hyon sent cease and desist orders to the reviewers to not review somebody elses product? Because he couldn't stop the cloners from making a clone so attack the reviewer instead?

correct me if I'm wrong.
I am under the impression they were reviewing clones and
and touting their advantages over the Hyon product.
mike