I am heartbroken. Public E-Cig smoking has been banned in King Co (Seattle) Wa.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Busted knuckles

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 20, 2013
209
148
46
Portland, Oregon.
When asked if I was "smoking an e-cig" by a security person at my school (which is not yet banned), while in an un-occupied wooded area, I replied "no, it's a personal vaporizer". He looked confused and promptly drove away.
As we are the vaping community, we need to develop and own the language used to describe what we do! Especially in public and in the media. "E-cig" has such a negative sound and the opposition is using that to their advantage.
Oh, and also, we shouldn't blow clouds in people's faces at restaurants and movie theaters! While not harmful, it is invasive and counter productive to the cause. (I only say this because it's happend to me before. Even though I vape, I concidered it rude).
 

Caridwen

ECF Moderator
Senior Moderator
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 15, 2011
7,984
5,521
there will always be those impolite and outright rude people who would do something like go openly into a 'no smoking' area, and start to use a cigalike, just to get in a confrontation.

The rest of us can try to be a bit more considerate to non smokers/ non vapers.

Is vaping popular where you are?
 

six

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 17, 2011
3,706
4,504
under the blue sky
there will always be those impolite and outright rude people who would do something like go openly into a 'no smoking' area, and start to use a cigalike, just to get in a confrontation.

The rest of us can try to be a bit more considerate to non smokers/ non vapers.


Or, busybodies can keep their nose out of other people's business. -- Those who want to impose their idea of what a wholesome existence is upon me can get bent. Life is far too short to put up with such nonsense and waste even a moment of it on the better-than-thou nanny-stater nincompoops.
 

jpargana

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Mar 5, 2010
777
2,537
54
Portugal
So 'normalizing smoking again' is going to be the way that they attack e cigs, huh. Depressing how far freedom has been squashed in this country.

Dumb ANTZ's, who did not still realize that if the e-cig 'normalizes' anything, it has to be 'quitting smoking'...!

(Is drinking non-alchoolic beer a way to promote alchool abuse??)

By using an e-cig in public, a vaper is not showing off that he is smoking... he is showing off that (maybe at last, after using useless 'approved' NRT's, who knows...) he is being successful at keeping himself off cigarettes!

If those stupid ANTZ's were really concerned about fighting tobacco and smoking, then they would promote public vaping, even in places were smoking is not allowed (maybe not inside; that would be too much to ask from those brickheads; but at least in outdoor places were smoking is already banned).
Why? To pose a good example to smokers who might be thinking about quitting, and to show those people that finally, there is an alternative that may actually work for them too. And ironically, the reason why it may actually work for those people, is precisely the fact that the e-cig mimics smoking.

But, as many of us already know, the agenda of those 'organizations' and 'experts' is quite different... and so, they are not 'dumb' or 'stupid' at all. They are, in fact, quite cunning while following their own interests... sadly, those interests are opposed to our own... and so, they do 'stupid' things, while stating that it is 'for our own good'... thing is, I'm 43 already... I do NOT need a nanny...! Much less, a nanny who could'n care less about my well-being...

:facepalm:
 

skoony

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 31, 2013
5,692
9,953
69
saint paul,mn,usa
i understand ECF 's use of a filter to keep things from showing up in searches but,
don't you think the anti-ecig proponents don't have some one perusing this very forum
every day?
they will still take post's and cut and paste them any way they like to get the result they want.

till then code word giraffe regards,
mike
 

Caridwen

ECF Moderator
Senior Moderator
Supporting Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 15, 2011
7,984
5,521
i understand ECF 's use of a filter to keep things from showing up in searches but,
don't you think the anti-ecig proponents don't have some one perusing this very forum
every day?
they will still take post's and cut and paste them any way they like to get the result they want.

till then code word giraffe regards,
mike

Read the forum rules you agreed to when you became a member.
 

Ansah

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2012
393
438
USA
These bans never have anything to do with public health. It's about money, power, and control. I hope that in the end we get to keep what is ours!

This, in a nutshell.

While I understand the CASAA harm reduction approach, as well as what has been agreed to in these forums regarding the prohibition of discussion of certain subjects, and fully understand and appreciate (but do not subscribe to) the logic behind such proscriptions, those of us who see these vaping bans as symptomatic of a wider, historically longer-term trend of oppressive social control find ourselves crippled in terms of engaging in meaningful discussion about the nature of what we're dealing with.

The sociopolitical climate in which authoritarian vaping bans can be either happily acquiescenced to or apathetically tolerated by the general public exists within a broader cultural context, wherein precedents and social templates for enacting such coercive legislation have long been established and continue to flourish, often because by now they're simply taken for granted. When an elephant has been in your room long enough, you begin to forget that it's even there, even as you wonder why you don't seem to have as much space as you used to.

Freedom is always lost in increments, and pogroms against whatever target groups are always conducted incrementally.

Practically, I think any strategy that advocates for vaping rights by merely claiming "respectability" (we're not like those dirty, nasty, cigarette smokers et al, reminiscent of the "good Jew" argument in Nazi Germany), or by virtue of scientific evidence (this study shows... blah blah blah) are destined to fail, since they misunderstand the nature, intent and scope of the forces that seek to demonize us. IMHO, we would be better served by advocating for a more general liberation from authoritarian-defined "social norms" that bind us, deconstructing their alleged legitimacy at every opportunity. This needs to be recast as the simple human rights issue that it is.

I get emails for CASAA webinar meetings, but it cynically occurs to me that— in terms of the currently espoused paradigm for how the issue is to be framed— I have very little to say...
 

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,974
San Diego
The sociopolitical climate in which authoritarian vaping bans can be either happily acquiescenced to or apathetically tolerated by the general public exists within a broader cultural context, wherein precedents and social templates for enacting such coercive legislation have long been established and continue to flourish, often because by now they're simply taken for granted. When an elephant has been in your room long enough, you begin to forget that it's even there, even as you wonder why you don't seem to have as much space as you used to.

Freedom is always lost in increments, and pogroms against whatever target groups are always conducted incrementally.
I certainly can't disagree with any of that...

Practically, I think any strategy that advocates for vaping rights by merely claiming "respectability" (we're not like those dirty, nasty, cigarette smokers et al, reminiscent of the "good Jew" argument in Nazi Germany), or by virtue of scientific evidence (this study shows... blah blah blah) are destined to fail, since they misunderstand the nature, intent and scope of the forces that seek to demonize us. IMHO, we would be better served by advocating for a more general liberation from authoritarian-defined "social norms" that bind us, deconstructing their alleged legitimacy at every opportunity. This needs to be recast as the simple human rights issue that it is.
But I may be misunderstanding you here, or in need of clarification on your position regarding smoking bans.
I'm just trying to figure out where you feel you might disagree with the position CASAA takes.
 

Ansah

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2012
393
438
USA
But I may be misunderstanding you here, or in need of clarification on your position regarding smoking bans.
I'm just trying to figure out where you feel you might disagree with the position CASAA takes.

Smoking bans? When the various "clean air" anti-smoking movements began sprouting up in the 1960s-70s, it was with the intention of making it possible for non-smokers to go to the workplace, sit on an airplane etc., without being inundated with cigarette smoke. I'm fine with that. In most parts of the US at least, this battle was won by, say, 1990. But at some point this so-called ANTZ movement morphed into something else entirely, and became a control issue rather than a clean indoor air issue. There is no reason on earth that space can't be made for everyone, so I absolutely oppose smoking bans on the zero tolerance level.

I used to work in a hospital that had discreet smoking lounges on each floor, equipped with the necessary ventilation systems to ensure that non smokers walking by wouldn't be affected, and no one was. This should have been enough, but it wasn't, not because ANTZ were having smoke blown into their faces, but because they couldn't stand the idea that someone else might choose to smoke, and wanted to live in a conceptual universe in which the practice did not exist. For a few years after they removed the indoor smoking, they kept one smoking room extant in the psych units, because some compassionate physicians with clout believed that punishing psychiatric patients already under mental/emotional distress by depriving them of tobacco was cruel, a sensibility I most certainly share. But eventually this room (which 99% of the staff of the hospital were no doubt unaware of, much lest bothered by) was taken away too...

... Then you began to see staff as well as patients in hospital gowns & wheelchairs smoking in the snow, which undoubtedly embarrassed the politicians and hospital administrators, so outdoor smoking had to be banished, too.

My alienation from CASAA and these forums discussion guidelines doesn't stem from the harm reduction idea argument per se, which I suppose I agree with as far as it goes. Rather, my alienation is this: The notion that we as vapors are somehow "different" and more "respectable" than other target groups who have already been successfully persecuted by oligarchic, top-down power, and therefore deserve preferential treatment because what we do "isn't as bad" as what those other people do. This presumes both the moral and legal legitimacy of the coercive power relationships as they currently exist. In other words, the message is: "We acknowledge your right to oppress x, y and z, but we want a "special dispensation" and plead for the grace of your kind permission to have one." That there are whole, vast areas of recent American history and current policy that we are not even allowed to allude to on these forums speaks to this strategy.
 
Last edited:

Izan

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 1, 2012
8,837
15,666
Mallorca, Spain
I certainly can't disagree with any of that...


But I may be misunderstanding you here, or in need of clarification on your position regarding smoking bans.
I'm just trying to figure out where you feel you might disagree with the position CASAA takes.

I read it as:
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. (or should be)

I
 

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,974
San Diego
My alienation from CASAA and these forums discussion guidelines doesn't stem from the harm reduction idea argument per se, which I suppose I agree with as far as it goes. Rather, my alienation is this: The notion that we as vapors are somehow "different" and more "respectable" than other target groups who have already been successfully persecuted by oligarchic, top-down power, and therefore deserve preferential treatment because what we do "isn't as bad" as what those other people do. This presumes both the moral and legal legitimacy of the coercive power relationships as they currently exist. In other words, the message is: "We acknowledge your right to oppress x, y and z, but we want a "special dispensation" and plead for the grace of your kind permission to have one." That there are whole, vast areas of recent American history and current policy that we are not even allowed to allude to on these forums speaks to this strategy.
Okay, that's where I thought you were going, which still leaves me confused...

Are you saying you can't support CASAA if they aren't fighting against baseless smoking bans too?
Or are you saying you can't support CASAA if they aren't fighting to right all of the wrongs in the world?

What approach would you support?

By the way, I'm not trying to start anything, or be a ............
I am honestly curious and interested.
:)
 

EddardinWinter

The Philosopher Who Rides
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 13, 2012
8,866
28,169
Richmond, Va
Sadly, CASAA cannot right every wrong in the world. They are specifically: CASAA is the Consumer Advocates for Smokefree Alternatives Association. Making the fight for vapers rights does not concede that other target groups have been justly punished. It simply uses its limited resources to fight strictly for what is part of its stated purpose.

CASAA was created as an answer to the anti-Tobacco Harm Reduction groups' efforts to ban THR products and in the belief that there is strength in our numbers.

If that is not enough for you to join the fight, I regret to hear it. I have chosen to throw my support to them.

I suppose my question to you is, what is the viable alternative?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread