I got the impression TC is unpopular - but why?

[CMD-Ky]

Beat me to it.

I no longer use Temperature Control and adopted Quantum Excitation Control – or QEC for short. QEC is about measuring the quantum state of a system that has a higher energy than the ground state. Excitation is an elevation of that energy. This is measurable and controllable.

Unfortunately, no such device is available within the vape industry. Fortunately for me, my cat is an evil genius who has developed a QEC circuit small enough for me to retro fit into an existing vape device. The original concept was to be implemented into a squeaky mouse toy, where if she swatted the toy, that transfer of energy would be converted to the needed energy to make the toy squeak. QEC was to measure the amount of energy from her hitting the toy, then adjust accordingly – the harder the hit, the louder the squeak. Quite clever. I managed to convince her with tasty strips of bacon, and a couple of baggies of Killer Crush Cat Nip (not the illicit stuff from the US) to implement a QEC circuit for a vape device.

And with the additional payment of a bucket of fried chicken, she has implemented a neuron sensing fire button that will instantly detect any thought process and automatically adjusts either wattage or temperature. I do not have to adjust anything…just think about what temperature I wish to vape at and press fire.

The device works perfectly, better than the industries best TC devices. And does not require a TC compatible metal, so any coil or mesh can be used. However, every time I hit the fire button the device squeaks like a mouse toy.

 

[Baditude]

So, I may conclude that the bottom line is - I found what works for me, there are no objective arguments against it, only a matter of personal preference, so I can safely proceed with that route.

As long as you are not stressing your batteries, "What works for me" is the bottom line.

On the note of keeping it simple - I would have preferred that as well honestly, just haven’t found a way to achieve that yet with VW, The closest was Curve mode which I configured as pulses (basically 0.2-0.3 seconds ramp up, then 0.3-0.4 seconds very low W, then repeat...btw I don’t know if it’s safe to do so. From Amperage stand point, the peaks did reach 13A draw on 0.45ohm coil, but only for 0.1 seconds, so I would assume it’s ok - correct me if I’m wrong).
I never found a way in VW to have really fast ramp, without dry burn.
I’m open to suggestions though on that topic! (Should I make separate topic on that as forum guide suggests?)

On my TC mode, I have wattage set to maximum 120w, I figured this will allow the mod to ramp up really fast. On average though, after ramp up the wattage is around 25w.
I set my temp to 200-240 C° (390-470F°) - that’s reasonable, right?

I never had the need for a fast ramp up time. I guess that I always self-regulated the ramp up time by either pressing the fire button before I actually to a draw, or began my draw before actually pressing the fire button, depending upon my preference on that day.

Punk in Dublic gave you useful information on figuring out the amps required from the battery depending upon the wattage settings you use. Here's a simple chart to use.

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
(Total wattage doubles using 2 batteries; Triples using 3 batteries.)

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Molicel 18650-P26A, 2600 mah 25 amp CDR

​

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

​

 

[BaronHarkonnen]

The 40T is a 25amp battery. For a single cell and to reduce risk you should not exceed 75 watts. If you are requesting 120 watts, that would be ~42 amp current draw on the battery.

I understand your TC settings modulates power down to 25 watts, but you do not know how long it stays at 120 watts for. A change in environment, say walking into a cooler room, could very well mean the device is firing 120 watts longer than normal.

something not adds up
If I use Ohm law calculator,
I plug in
R = 1.29
W = 120
results I get
A = 9.64
V= 12.44
How you get 42amps? What am I missing?

 

[Opinionated]

Hi,

I just tried to TC vaping - and it’s awesome!

it was harder to build the coil, took me couple of tries, but once I reached R of 1.3, everything started to work.
I used 26awg wire SS316L (that’s what they had ready in the store).
I have no dry hits - at all, it’s just perfect. It’s like having on the fly automatically adjusted curve!

I do have one small problem- 1 out of 10 mod firing - (almost) nothing happens.
is it a problem (not good chip/mod, wire, else?), or is it intended? (Coil overheated, wick is dry, else?). But that’s a small nuisance - I wait 10 seconds and wape again no problem.

what I still don’t understand - why I was always told at the stores “don’t TC vape - it’s the old way, now VW is the way to go” without any explanation.
So far I have a feeling that it was done exclusively in stores interest:
- because they know it’s harder to built, so they didn’t want to have a complaining customer “it does not work”, because the mods for tc probably cost more so it’s tougher sell, and they wanted to sell me more coils, wick, juice...

are there other reasons against TC? (Safety, medical reasons (idk - SS wire releases particles or something - seems unlikely (I know with Ti and Ni you should be causious)), else?

I continue to research this topic as well, online, YouTube, etc, but so far I found nothing against, except what I already mentioned (mainly it’s a bit harder to build the coils).

Would appreciate your opinions!

regards,
Vadim

ps. I use EHPRO Cold Steel 100 mod, Siren 2 MTL RTA.

That's awesome that you got TC figured out and are enjoying it, and find it helpful to your vaping experience.. that's exactly what it's intended for.. so awesome for you..

Once you have a lot more experience building, you may find the hassle of TC unnecessary...

I don't use it because I build exactly right for how I vape, and don't get dry hits.. for me, all the time and effort of setting TC up is quite wasted because all I end up doing is setting it up for how I'd be vaping in wattage only mode, so I find it an unnecessary waste of time..

however for less experienced builders or just those who love to fiddle with gadgets it's an awesome feature!

Hope your having fun and enjoying the vape! in the end, that's all that matters!

 

[Baditude]

Mooch's Recommended 21700-size Batteries

Samsung 21700 40T 4000mAh 25 amp CDR

Molicel 21700 4000mAh 30 amp CDR

(best all around 21700, a bit wider in diameter than other 21700's)

Samsung 21700 30T 3000 mah 35 amp CDR

(highest amp rating for a 2100)

Samsung 21700 50E2 5000 mah 10 amp CDR

(highest capacity 21700, but only 10A, must have "2" on third line of battery)



Mooch's Recommended 20700-size Batteries

Sanyo 20700 NCR2070C 3500 mah 30 amp CDR

Sanyo 20700 20700B 4000mAh 15 amp CDR

(best if used under 10A and under 30 watts)

Molicel INR20700A 2800mAh 30 amp CDR

 

[Baditude]

something not adds up
If I use Ohm law calculator,
I plug in
R = 1.29
W = 120
results I get
A = 9.64
V= 12.44
How you get 42amps? What am I missing?

Ohm's Law calculator is only useful for mechanical mods.

Regulated mods uses Watt's Law. For the most part, coil resistance is largely irrelevant for regulated mods.

 

[zoiDman]

something not adds up
If I use Ohm law calculator,
I plug in
R = 1.29
W = 120
results I get
A = 9.64
V= 12.44
How you get 42amps? What am I missing?

Here is an Easy to Understand explanation of how to Calculate the Battery Amp Draw for a Regulated Mod.

Calculating battery current draw for a regulated mod | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[Punk In Drublic]

something not adds up
If I use Ohm law calculator,
I plug in
R = 1.29
W = 120
results I get
A = 9.64
V= 12.44
How you get 42amps? What am I missing?

There are 2 sides to a regulated circuit, Input and output. Input will be your batteries, output will be your coil. As I stated earlier, your batteries do not see the coil resistance (output) – they only see what the regulated circuit is requesting in terms of power (wattage). So the coils resistance does not become a factor in calculating the current draw on the battery.

Battery voltage and prescribed power are the values you need. I = P/V. As battery voltage depletes, current increases to meet your power demands. So to calculate max current draw, we use the lowest voltage the device allows, the cut off voltage.

The regulated circuit also requires a bit of power in order to operate. This is factored as device efficiency and given we do not know the efficiency; a 90% efficiency is about normal.

So, to calculate current draw on the battery

Wattage/Number of batteries/Voltage Cut Off/Device Efficiency. So for your case … 120/1/3.2/0.9 = 41.67 amps

 

[BaronHarkonnen]

Ohm's Law calculator is only useful for mechanical mods.

Regulated mods uses Watt's Law.

I still don’t get it sorry P=VI
P=120
V (of the battery)=4.2
So I = 28A

If I calculate V=3.7, then I=32A

It’s still over the recommended battery CDR, and I don’t argue with what you are saying, but I do want to understand the whole thing in depth, so I won’t have any doubt in the future.

 

[BaronHarkonnen]

There are 2 sides to a regulated circuit, Input and output. Input will be your batteries, output will be your coil. As I stated earlier, your batteries do not see the coil resistance (output) – they only see what the regulated circuit is requesting in terms of power (wattage). So the coils resistance does not become a factor in calculating the current draw on the battery.

Battery voltage and prescribed power are the values you need. I = P/V. As battery voltage depletes, current increases to meet your power demands. So to calculate max current draw, we use the lowest voltage the device allows, the cut off voltage.

The regulated circuit also requires a bit of power in order to operate. This is factored as device efficiency and given we do not know the efficiency; a 90% efficiency is about normal.

So, to calculate current draw on the battery

Wattage/Number of batteries/Voltage Cut Off/Device Efficiency. So for your case … 120/1/3.2/0.9 = 41.67 amps

Ok, that makes sense, now I’m confused why V of the battery is 3.2 not 3.7 or 4.2

 

[Baditude]

The most wattage that you can get safely from a single 25 amp battery in a regulated mod is 75 watts.

 

[BaronHarkonnen]

Ok, that makes sense, now I’m confused why V of the battery is 3.2 not 3.7 or 4.2

I think I can answer that myself - 3.2 is the lowest V the battery will provide eventually

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Ok, that makes sense, now I’m confused why V of the battery is 3.2 not 3.7 or 4.2

4.2 volts is the max charge. 3.7 volts is the nominal voltage. 3.2 volts is the average cut off voltage of many devices. Some are a little higher, some are a little lower.

At max charge of 4.2 volts, the current draw will be at it lowest based on your prescribed power. I=P/V

At 3.2 volts, the current draw will be at it highest…this is where you want to draw your line in order to reduce risk.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Steam Engine Battery Drain calculator can be used if you do not wish to do the math.
Battery drain | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Choose Regulated and Power Regulation.

Enter your coils resistance and power setting.

You can keep APV efficiency at 90 %

Battery Voltage can be adjusted to see the current draw at different voltage stages. But if you use 3.2 volts, you are calculating the max current draw.

Enter Battery Capacity (4000 mAh for the 40T)

Keep Nominal Voltage as 3.7 and change the C- Rating to 6.25…this will set the CDR (Amp Limit) of the cell.

The calculated results will show the voltage, current draw and power at the coil (Atomizer)

Battery Drain will show the current draw on the cell, plus what the power is when Device Efficiency is factored in.

Amp Limit will tell you how much higher you are running above your CDR limit.

 

[Opinionated]

Steam Engine Battery Drain calculator can be used if you do not wish to do the math.
Battery drain | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators

Choose Regulated and Power Regulation.

Enter your coils resistance and power setting.

You can keep APV efficiency at 90 %

Battery Voltage can be adjusted to see the current draw at different voltage stages. But if you use 3.2 volts, you are calculating the max current draw.

Enter Battery Capacity (4000 mAh for the 40T)

Keep Nominal Voltage as 3.7 and change the C- Rating to 6.25…this will set the CDR (Amp Limit) of the cell.

The calculated results will show the voltage, current draw and power at the coil (Atomizer)

Battery Drain will show the current draw on the cell, plus what the power is when Device Efficiency is factored in.

Amp Limit will tell you how much higher you are running above your CDR limit.

haha... that's cool.. it even estimates how many puffs you can take..

 

[Punk In Drublic]

What is the device you are using? And are you using a 1.29 ohm coil?

On top of everything that has been discussed, also understand there are voltage and current limitations of the regulated circuit that is beyond the CDR limits of the battery. Voltage limitations are usually stated, and can very from device to device. A DNA75C, as an example, can only deliver a max 9 volts to the coil. This means at full power, 75 watts, any resistance above 1.06 ohms will not receive the full 75 watts for we have exceeded the voltage limitation of the regulated circuit.

The DNA75C also has a 30 amp current limitation at the coil. This means at full 75 watts, only coils above 0.09 ohms will receive full power, assuming their resistance is below the above voltage limits.

Reaching these limits, the device will either spit out an error, scale power back, or cease to function.

If you are truly using a 1.29 ohm coil, 120 watts would require the regulated circuit to deliver 12.4 volts. And I am willing to bet that exceeds the limitations of your device.

 

[BaronHarkonnen]

What is the device you are using? And are you using a 1.29 ohm coil?

On top of everything that has been discussed, also understand there are voltage and current limitations of the regulated circuit that is beyond the CDR limits of the battery. Voltage limitations are usually stated, and can very from device to device. A DNA75C, as an example, can only deliver a max 9 volts to the coil. This means at full power, 75 watts, any resistance above 1.06 ohms will not receive the full 75 watts for we have exceeded the voltage limitation of the regulated circuit.

The DNA75C also has a 30 amp current limitation at the coil. This means at full 75 watts, only coils above 0.09 ohms will receive full power, assuming their resistance is below the above voltage limits.

Reaching these limits, the device will either spit out an error, scale power back, or cease to function.

If you are truly using a 1.29 ohm coil, 120 watts would require the regulated circuit to deliver 12.4 volts. And I am willing to bet that exceeds the limitations of your device.

12.4v it cannot reach, that’s true.
Apparently 8v is max.
The coil is 1.29 according to the mod that is.
Ehpro Cold Steel 100 (120W Tube Mod) Specifications

• Dimensions: 39 x 27.5 x 91.5mm.
• Material: Stainless Steel + Brass + Zinc Alloy.
• Coil Resistance Range: 0.05-3.0ohm.
• Voltage Range: 0.5-8V.
• Wattage Range: 5-120W.
• Output Current: 35A.
• Temperature Range: 100-315℃ / 200-600℉

 

[Punk In Drublic]

12.4v it cannot reach, that’s true.
Apparently 8v is max.
The coil is 1.29 according to the mod that is.
Ehpro Cold Steel 100 (120W Tube Mod) Specifications

• Dimensions: 39 x 27.5 x 91.5mm.
• Material: Stainless Steel + Brass + Zinc Alloy.
• Coil Resistance Range: 0.05-3.0ohm.
• Voltage Range: 0.5-8V.
• Wattage Range: 5-120W.
• Output Current: 35A.
• Temperature Range: 100-315℃ / 200-600℉

So with that resistance, the max power the device will operate at is 49 watts (give or take a watt or 2).

Set your TC wattage to 45 allowing a little headroom for deficiencies. Anything above is just not gonna happen.

And at 45 watts, you are welll within your CDR limits. 45 watts would draw approx 16 amps from the battery.

 

[BaronHarkonnen]

I always use TC. To OP, one simple change that significantly improved my experience on mid-range devices was changing to titanium wire. The resistance change is larger for a given temperature change than other wire; meaning you'll get more accurate TC. My standard wire is Temco RW0499, 26ga, Titanium Grade 1 (i.e. surgical) Annealed Round Wire. Enjoy

i want a titanium wire!
Is there a way to buy it online with international shipping?

Titanium Wire 26 AWG RW0499 - 50 FT 0.34 oz Surgical Grade 1 Non-Resistance AWG
on the website it says “non resistance wire” - is that the right thing?

 

[gerrymi]

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:

Up to 45W:
Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:
LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

@Baditude ...as a confirmed MTL Tootle Puffer...who has NEVER had ANY interest in going over 15Watts...I honed in on the 3000mAh batteries on your list...

Would there be ANY advantage for me to use the 20 amp LG-HG2...over the 15 amp Samsung-30Q or Sony-VTC6???

(I've been using the Samsung-30Q because Mooch said it retained more capacity and had more recycles than the Sony-VTC6...(which retained more capacity and had more recycles than the LG-HG2.)

..