I got the impression TC is unpopular - but why?

[BaronHarkonnen]

Hi,

I just tried to TC vaping - and it’s awesome!

it was harder to build the coil, took me couple of tries, but once I reached R of 1.3, everything started to work.
I used 26awg wire SS316L (that’s what they had ready in the store).
I have no dry hits - at all, it’s just perfect. It’s like having on the fly automatically adjusted curve!

I do have one small problem- 1 out of 10 mod firing - (almost) nothing happens.
is it a problem (not good chip/mod, wire, else?), or is it intended? (Coil overheated, wick is dry, else?). But that’s a small nuisance - I wait 10 seconds and wape again no problem.

what I still don’t understand - why I was always told at the stores “don’t TC vape - it’s the old way, now VW is the way to go” without any explanation.
So far I have a feeling that it was done exclusively in stores interest:
- because they know it’s harder to built, so they didn’t want to have a complaining customer “it does not work”, because the mods for tc probably cost more so it’s tougher sell, and they wanted to sell me more coils, wick, juice...

are there other reasons against TC? (Safety, medical reasons (idk - SS wire releases particles or something - seems unlikely (I know with Ti and Ni you should be causious)), else?

I continue to research this topic as well, online, YouTube, etc, but so far I found nothing against, except what I already mentioned (mainly it’s a bit harder to build the coils).

Would appreciate your opinions!

regards,
Vadim

ps. I use EHPRO Cold Steel 100 mod, Siren 2 MTL RTA.

 

[Sloth Tonight]

I never got into it but my understanding is it's probably a safer way to vape. I'm just content with my current setup. I know a lot of people who use TC and love it.

 

[Eskie]

TC is far more recent than VW. Certainly well done TC is newer. Some mods are better than others at accurately controlling the temperature while vaping. If you're happy with the current performance than you're all set.

The occasional poor firing which corrects itself after a small amount of time may well be from a wick that's dry, and then gets wet enough to fire again. Check your wicking first. Most problems go back to user error in building or setup of the mod rather than a failure of the mod (but it does happen, it's just easier to eliminate the common problems first).

 

[DaveP]

i switch back and forth from power mode to TC mode. I think I get a little more vape time from a battery in TC mode just because it pulses power instead of turning power on for the entire length of a hit. That said, I tend to push power in TC mode up to 12W instead of the 10W I like in power mode.

 

[Jebbn]

I pretty much use TC all the time, rta, rda, tank.
I love it. Its like consistently rolling the perfect cigarette, a smooth and luxurious draw right down to the ....
I like a cool vape but with instant ramp up and quick cool down so that even if I am having a slightly extended vape session the rta/coil and vape never gets over heated and unpleasant for me.
Initially when I first started using TC I had frustrations with mtl vaping in tc but I seem to have over come those initial little niggles and have it all working smoothly. I never had the same problems with D2L vaping and TC.
Not all TC mods are created equal and some are quite terrible at TC. Inaccurate resistance reading, shunting/stuttering affect as the tc comes in and out etc.
A lot of people are dismissive or uninterested in TC vaping, I wouldnt worry about that, just find your own pleasure and dig into it.

 

[Baditude]

what I still don’t understand - why I was always told at the stores “don’t TC vape - it’s the old way, now VW is the way to go” without any explanation.
So far I have a feeling that it was done exclusively in stores interest:
- because they know it’s harder to built, so they didn’t want to have a complaining customer “it does not work”, because the mods for tc probably cost more so it’s tougher sell, and they wanted to sell me more coils, wick, juice...

As others have said above, variable wattage was around way before TC was invented by the chip maker Evolv. As other chip makers began offering it, there were performance issues as they probably were reverse engineering their models. To this day there are some chips that do TC better than other brands. Since Evolv owns the patent for their chip, a non-Evolv chip may be cheaper but may not perform as well as the real deal.

Not a lot of people have taken the time to learn how to properly setup TC, myself included, and that likely includes many vape shop employees. Speaking for myself, variable wattage works just fine for me, so why learn something a bit more complicated when I am more than satisfied with V W?

I've always been an advocate of the K.I.S.S. principle. Keep it simple, stupid. There's nothing more simple than variable wattage. I was the same way when I made my own RBA coils back in the day. KISS---> simple compressed coil. No fancy exotic parallel or clapton builds for me.

There is also the issue of wire compatibility. Many factory made coils are made of kanthal wire, which is incompatible with TC. (I learned that much.)

 

[HigherStateD]

TC, VW, VV,. Bypass, I vape what I feel like vaping at the time I'm vaping. I like them all.

 

[zoiDman]

Hi,

I just tried to TC vaping - and it’s awesome!

it was harder to build the coil, took me couple of tries, but once I reached R of 1.3, everything started to work.
I used 26awg wire SS316L (that’s what they had ready in the store).
I have no dry hits - at all, it’s just perfect. It’s like having on the fly automatically adjusted curve!

I do have one small problem- 1 out of 10 mod firing - (almost) nothing happens.
is it a problem (not good chip/mod, wire, else?), or is it intended? (Coil overheated, wick is dry, else?). But that’s a small nuisance - I wait 10 seconds and wape again no problem.

what I still don’t understand - why I was always told at the stores “don’t TC vape - it’s the old way, now VW is the way to go” without any explanation.
So far I have a feeling that it was done exclusively in stores interest:
- because they know it’s harder to built, so they didn’t want to have a complaining customer “it does not work”, because the mods for tc probably cost more so it’s tougher sell, and they wanted to sell me more coils, wick, juice...

are there other reasons against TC? (Safety, medical reasons (idk - SS wire releases particles or something - seems unlikely (I know with Ti and Ni you should be causious)), else?

I continue to research this topic as well, online, YouTube, etc, but so far I found nothing against, except what I already mentioned (mainly it’s a bit harder to build the coils).

Would appreciate your opinions!

regards,
Vadim

ps. I use EHPRO Cold Steel 100 mod, Siren 2 MTL RTA.

You have to Remember that "TC" is not a Unified or Standard way one can Vape. Some Mods do TC Very Well. And some Not so Good.

So I you ask someone if they Like using TC, you will get a Range of responses based Largely on how well their Mod's did TC.

Myself, I'm not much of a TC user. And I have tried TC on some of the Mod's that are supposed to do TC the Best. With a Variety of Coil Builds. I just like that increasing Hit I get from VW.

That, and I vape more on the Lower End of the Wattage scale with Simple Single Wire Single Coils. So it is Easy to Control the Hit I get without TC.

 

[HigherStateD]

I should add, I don't have any of the high end TC chipsets. No DNA or YiHi for me. I mainly use a topside for TC, but sometimes it's a wismec using Arctic fox. I use SS316 wire for my TC coils, usually geekvape juggernaut, but I'm out of that right now, so it's down to caterpillar track and quad core Clapton until I get more. Still experimenting with mesh, but haven't gotten that to my liking, as I prefer a warmer vape with a quick ramp. My RX2 has a preheat of 200w for half a second, and on a cold day, it still needs a second past that to fully ramp.

Sometimes I slum all the way down to TC on a frenzy pod. It's not bad, but not as good as the topside.

My biggest grip about TC is that I prefer the flavor and heat retention characteristics of Ni80 more than SS, but I have yet to try less popular metals, to compare those.

These are just my feelings, and YMMV, what ever works to keep people off smokes.

 

[BaronHarkonnen]

Thanks everyone for your replies!
So, I may conclude that the bottom line is - I found what works for me, there are no objective arguments against it, only a matter of personal preference, so I can safely proceed with that route.

On the note of keeping it simple - I would have preferred that as well honestly, just haven’t found a way to achieve that yet with VW, The closest was Curve mode which I configured as pulses (basically 0.2-0.3 seconds ramp up, then 0.3-0.4 seconds very low W, then repeat...btw I don’t know if it’s safe to do so. From Amperage stand point, the peaks did reach 13A draw on 0.45ohm coil, but only for 0.1 seconds, so I would assume it’s ok - correct me if I’m wrong).
I never found a way in VW to have really fast ramp, without dry burn.
I’m open to suggestions though on that topic! (Should I make separate topic on that as forum guide suggests?)

On my TC mode, I have wattage set to maximum 120w, I figured this will allow the mod to ramp up really fast. On average though, after ramp up the wattage is around 25w.
I set my temp to 200-240 C° (390-470F°) - that’s reasonable, right?

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I no longer use Temperature Control and adopted Quantum Excitation Control – or QEC for short. QEC is about measuring the quantum state of a system that has a higher energy than the ground state. Excitation is an elevation of that energy. This is measurable and controllable.

Unfortunately, no such device is available within the vape industry. Fortunately for me, my cat is an evil genius who has developed a QEC circuit small enough for me to retro fit into an existing vape device. The original concept was to be implemented into a squeaky mouse toy, where if she swatted the toy, that transfer of energy would be converted to the needed energy to make the toy squeak. QEC was to measure the amount of energy from her hitting the toy, then adjust accordingly – the harder the hit, the louder the squeak. Quite clever. I managed to convince her with tasty strips of bacon, and a couple of baggies of Killer Crush Cat Nip (not the illicit stuff from the US) to implement a QEC circuit for a vape device.

And with the additional payment of a bucket of fried chicken, she has implemented a neuron sensing fire button that will instantly detect any thought process and automatically adjusts either wattage or temperature. I do not have to adjust anything…just think about what temperature I wish to vape at and press fire.

The device works perfectly, better than the industries best TC devices. And does not require a TC compatible metal, so any coil or mesh can be used. However, every time I hit the fire button the device squeaks like a mouse toy.

 

[Myrany]

Thanks everyone for your replies!
So, I may conclude that the bottom line is - I found what works for me, there are no objective arguments against it, only a matter of personal preference, so I can safely proceed with that route.

On the note of keeping it simple - I would have preferred that as well honestly, just haven’t found a way to achieve that yet with VW, The closest was Curve mode which I configured as pulses (basically 0.2-0.3 seconds ramp up, then 0.3-0.4 seconds very low W, then repeat...btw I don’t know if it’s safe to do so. From Amperage stand point, the peaks did reach 13A draw on 0.45ohm coil, but only for 0.1 seconds, so I would assume it’s ok - correct me if I’m wrong).
I never found a way in VW to have really fast ramp, without dry burn.
I’m open to suggestions though on that topic! (Should I make separate topic on that as forum guide suggests?)

On my TC mode, I have wattage set to maximum 120w, I figured this will allow the mod to ramp up really fast. On average though, after ramp up the wattage is around 25w.
I set my temp to 200-240 C° (390-470F°) - that’s reasonable, right?

See I don't want to work that hard at figuring it out.
A .7 ohm kanthal single coil build on a mech mod and I am a happy camper.

I tried TC several years ago. Just found it too much work and never found a vape I like.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

I got the impression TC is unpopular

I certainly haven't got that impression. But I know there are many for whom the increased complexity is not worth the effort. As @Baditude points out, the K.I.S.S principle is a good one, and VW already works very well especially with a custom curve.

I was always told at the stores “don’t TC vape - it’s the old way, now VW is the way to go”

That's complete nonsense. Maybe they thought you were asking about VV.

When TC was brand new I dismissed as a crutch for lazy builders, but it turns out there is a region of increased harmful emissions somewhere between 420°F and the temperature at which a vape tastes noticeably burnt, so the technology is a legitimate improvement. Based on what I've read I'd aim as far as possible down the low-400s without compromising satisfaction

My thought on TC is that I'll try it some day soon, and I low-key admire those who have successfully done it.

 

[zoiDman]

I no longer use Temperature Control and adopted Quantum Excitation Control – or QEC for short. QEC is about measuring the quantum state of a system that has a higher energy than the ground state. Excitation is an elevation of that energy. This is measurable and controllable.

Unfortunately, no such device is available within the vape industry. Fortunately for me, my cat is an evil genius who has developed a QEC circuit small enough for me to retro fit into an existing vape device. The original concept was to be implemented into a squeaky mouse toy, where if she swatted the toy, that transfer of energy would be converted to the needed energy to make the toy squeak. QEC was to measure the amount of energy from her hitting the toy, then adjust accordingly – the harder the hit, the louder the squeak. Quite clever. I managed to convince her with tasty strips of bacon, and a couple of baggies of Killer Crush Cat Nip (not the illicit stuff from the US) to implement a QEC circuit for a vape device.

And with the additional payment of a bucket of fried chicken, she has implemented a neuron sensing fire button that will instantly detect any thought process and automatically adjusts either wattage or temperature. I do not have to adjust anything…just think about what temperature I wish to vape at and press fire.

The device works perfectly, better than the industries best TC devices. And does not require a TC compatible metal, so any coil or mesh can be used. However, every time I hit the fire button the device squeaks like a mouse toy.

QEC has been around awhile. It just for some reason Never caught on with the Mainstream Vaping crowd.

Could be due to there is No Way to control Energy Scalars via a Lorentz Transformation when moving in at Higher Relativistic Velocities? Or that the e-Liquids have to be Quantumly Entangled with the Mod while they are in a Steady Rest State? Or that the th-ranked Field Tensors have to be spot on so your N-Dimensional Linear Mappings jive.

Whatever it is/was, it just Never seemed to make that Big Splash that many thought it would.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

On the note of keeping it simple - I would have preferred that as well honestly, just haven’t found a way to achieve that yet with VW, The closest was Curve mode which I configured as pulses (basically 0.2-0.3 seconds ramp up, then 0.3-0.4 seconds very low W, then repeat...btw I don’t know if it’s safe to do so. From Amperage stand point, the peaks did reach 13A draw on 0.45ohm coil, but only for 0.1 seconds, so I would assume it’s ok - correct me if I’m wrong).

With a regulated device, coil amperage is not the same as current being drawn from your batteries. Your batteries do not see the coil resistance like in a mechanical device, they only see the wattage the regulated circuit is requesting. That said, it is still important to operate the device within your batteries CDR limitations.

The quick way to figure your batteries limitations is to take its CDR rating and multiply that by 3 – that will be the max wattage you should operate at to reduce risk. If you have more than one cell, take the answer from that equation and multiply it by the amount of cells.

So a CDR rating of 20 amps would mean a single cell is good for a maximum of 60 watts. 2 of these cells would be good for a maximum of 120 watts.

And if you want to know the current draw on your batteries from your prescribed wattage. Take your wattage, divide by the number of batteries, divide by the battery voltage and divide by the efficiency of the device…a 90% efficiency is a safe figure. It is also important to note that as your battery voltage depletes from use, current draw increases in order to meet your power request. So to calculate the max currant draw you should use the devices low voltage cut off.

So if we take your 120 watt setting, and assume you have a dual cell device that has a voltage cut off of 3.2 volts, the calculation would be…120/2/3.2/0.9 = 20 amps max per cell. But because TC modulates the power, the current draw will work in tandem with that modulation.

The majority of devices only display the coil’s current draw, not the batteries current draw. Only device that I know of that displays the battery current draw are DNA devices, and even then they have to use a custom theme.

 

[Zaryk]

There is one reason some of us decides to not use TC. For instance, I'm picky about what wire types I use. Some wire types like stainless steel gives me a weird metallic taste in my mouth (not many people experience this, I am one of the unfortunate few who do). So this leaves me with two wire types that I actually like, nichrome and kanthal. Neither of which are TC compatible.

But even if I could use TC, I still wouldn't. I like the simplicity of a mech too much. I've tried all sorts of regulated devices and always end up unsatisfied with them and end up using my mechs exclusively.

 

[LoveVanilla]

I always use TC. To OP, one simple change that significantly improved my experience on mid-range devices was changing to titanium wire. The resistance change is larger for a given temperature change than other wire; meaning you'll get more accurate TC. My standard wire is Temco RW0499, 26ga, Titanium Grade 1 (i.e. surgical) Annealed Round Wire. Enjoy

 

[BaronHarkonnen]

It’s one cell 21700 T40 Samsung
:/ So I’m pushing it too far with 120W in TC mode with 25W average continuous?

please elaborate more on that point - even though Ohm law is simple, I rather Ask... to be sure...

 

[Punk In Drublic]

It’s one cell 21700 T40 Samsung
:/ So I’m pushing it too far with 120W in TC mode with 25W average continuous?

please elaborate more on that point - even though Ohm law is simple, I rather Ask... to be sure...

The 40T is a 25amp battery. For a single cell and to reduce risk you should not exceed 75 watts. If you are requesting 120 watts, that would be ~42 amp current draw on the battery.

I understand your TC settings modulates power down to 25 watts, but you do not know how long it stays at 120 watts for. A change in environment, say walking into a cooler room, could very well mean the device is firing 120 watts longer than normal.

 

[ppeeble]

I've vaped in TC on many devices just to get a feel for what 420F felt like. It's actually a hotter vape than my regular kanthal coil using VW.
At that point i'd satisfied myself that my regular set up was probably not getting hotter than recommended (over 450F) and went straight back to VW.
TC is (in my opinion) ideally suited to those who take long draws on their e-cigs. For a 2-3 second tootle puffer like me i see no advantage.