iAtty stock and maintenance question

[kaji]

Imeo,

I hear you, I am not sure what the real difference between mtbf (mean time betwen failure) data between standard 2.3Ω and 1.5Ω, since I have not dissected any of the LR ones to really compare the physical differences, I would assume you are correct since there is more current going through the coil the life span should be shorter, however wouldn't the nichrome be slightly larger in diameter to allow for less resistance and therefore be more robust? I have been using the same LR atty for 2 weeks now and have not burned one out yet. As for battery life, I am still getting a full day on 2200mah and 3000mah 18650s, so the 20% difference while real, doesn't really affect me personally. As for burnt taste, I definitely get less of that with the LR atty vs the HV ones at 6 or 7 volts but both are alleviated by keeping the atty moist.

I have not had a chance to test your attys (none in stock for a few weeks now), but look forward to testing them out once they are in stock. I understand you have other priorities than just watts when you engineered your attys. How much longer are they expected to last than standard attys?

Dear Kai, I wrote something on Vapor Kings forum and I copy-paste it here again:


I made iatties considering those things:

1) performance
2) life

I had to find ways to make both of them to work. After many experiments I saw that the current that must go through the atty to keep it working cool, to extent its life and to have the best kick and smoke comparing with other SAME atomizers was a specific number. I also gave t my atties a better coil, so bigger life and the best kick I c ould give to it.

As for the lower resistance atties:

1) They drain battery very quickly so the smoking time is 80% less!! That means that we lose the advantage of the bigger mods, so no reason to make big mods!

2) burn taste like regular atties at 6 volts. People complained for this in the past if you remember.

3) More current through the atty, so small atty life

We solve all the above problems with just one move. The HV iatties. And now we will go back?

 

[T-Hefner]

I didnt realize that the i3 iatty is LOW resistance? your saying its 1.5ohms, Imeo?

-Tim

 

[vapn]

No the i3 is more like 3 ohms. Maybe slightly less, as they vary a bit from the factory. I had one that was around the 2.6 mark. nice on 3.7v especially with the high drain batt.

 

[kaji]

I think he is saying he looked at going LR but did not, I think the i3 attys are ~3.0Ω. Due to his reasoning above. But with the introduction of the LR atomizers recently, I have a feeling things will change for 3.7v and it will not be viewed in the same matter it is today. His reasons don't seem to be holding true at this time as far as what others are reporting.

1. People are not seeing a 80% reduction in battery life (more like 20-25%). And since we have the ability to use high capacity batteries like the 18650 a 20% reduction on a 3000mah battery isn't that bad.

2. Burnrt taste usually happens once you start exceeding 10w (depending on other variables like type of eliquid etc). But I do not get a burnt taste unless my atomizer is getting dry, since I am at 9.13w.

3. As far as I can tel quality control is the predominate factor in atty life. I have standard atomizers that lasted for much shorter than my LR one, but I have others that have been going for longer. And just like I stated previously I am not sure how the resistance is lowered, but my assumption is that the nichrome coil has a slightly larger diameter, so while there is more current going through the wire, it maybe offset by the diameter in regards to robustness.

HV attys to me were not to solve these problems, they were there for one reason only, to reduce wattage at higher voltages in order to prevent too much heat (burning liquid). So while Imeo views 3.7v with a LR atty as a step back, it is actually a step forward and we will start seeing many more manufactures and distributors getting on the LR train very soon.

 

[imeothanasis]

Imeo,

I hear you, I am not sure what the real difference between mtbf (mean time betwen failure) data between standard 2.3Ω and 1.5Ω, since I have not dissected any of the LR ones to really compare the physical differences, I would assume you are correct since there is more current going through the coil the life span should be shorter, however wouldn't the nichrome be slightly larger in diameter to allow for less resistance and therefore be more robust? I have been using the same LR atty for 2 weeks now and have not burned one out yet. As for battery life, I am still getting a full day on 2200mah and 3000mah 18650s, so the 20% difference while real, doesn't really affect me personally. As for burnt taste, I definitely get less of that with the LR atty vs the HV ones at 6 or 7 volts but both are alleviated by keeping the atty moist.

I have not had a chance to test your attys (none in stock for a few weeks now), but look forward to testing them out once they are in stock. I understand you have other priorities than just watts when you engineered your attys. How much longer are they expected to last than standard attys?

Kai, think the regular atties at 6 volts and at 7,2 volts. Those atties were 3,5 ohms and they got burned at 6 volts more easy than 3,7 volts and they also got burned immediately at 7,2 volts. The reason was the amount of current that went through them. The current at 3,7 volts was 1 ampere and it was 1,7 ampere at 6 volts. It was 2 ampere at 7,2 volts. Its already 2,6 ampere at those 1,5 ohm atties. That means that:

1) battery life is not -20% but its 50% comparing to iatties. So battery with an iattie lasts e.g 6 hours and with an 1,5 ohm attie lasts 3 hours!! Thats a huge diference at smaller cr123A batteries but its very big diference too for the 18650 battery.

2) You will damage the batteries with those 1,5 ohm atties because the c rate of most batteries is less than what those atties need. But even if you use those limn AW batteries with big c rate then you lose the big mah lion batteries!

3) burn taste is more than sure! Remember that people were complained about burn taste at 1,7 amperes, so imagine at 2,6 amperes!! I dont know what HV atties you use but iatties dont have burn taste at all.

I think that iatties have a +30% more life than other HV ones. I also asked SLB to make a trick to my atties. I told them to put a plastic nut under the head of the center pole of the atty so we will not have shorts any more. That means that we will save atomizers, batteries, springs and explotions

 

[mwa102464]

Just gonna chime in here guys, I heard from a source in China that the LR's have not been perfected yet, these are first runs, I would bet what Kaji says when he says it will be getting bigger is correct, as they make these LR's better and better many more distributers will be carring them and more and more will be using them, however I also belive that the HV Atty will have it's purpose too and they too will get better and better as the specs are improved. Just my 2 cents

 

[imeothanasis]

Kai, you know already the 5 reasons that I made the HV atties but you still think that the only reason I made them is to lower the watts.

Ok, I will say the reasons again:

Battery life
atomizer's life
big watts
not burning taste
no electronic parts inside GG

 

[kaji]

Kai, think the regular atties at 6 volts and at 7,2 volts. Those atties were 3,5 ohms and they got burned at 6 volts more easy than 3,7 volts and they also got burned immediately at 7,2 volts. The reason was the amount of current that went through them. The current at 3,7 volts was 1 ampere and it was 1,7 ampere at 6 volts. It was 2 ampere at 7,2 volts. Its already 2,6 ampere at those 1,5 ohm atties. That means that:

Sorry I am using 510 atomizer numbers, since they are the only ones that are offered in LR right now (with the exception to KR808 cartos), so it will probably be different values for the 901s. As for the 510s, the HV attys are usually not 3.5Ω, but 4.5Ω or 5.2Ω.

1) battery life is not -20% but its 50% comparing to iatties. So battery with an iattie lasts e.g 6 hours and with an 1,5 ohm attie lasts 3 hours!! Thats a huge diference at smaller cr123A batteries but its very big diference too for the 18650 battery.

Yes compared to a i3 atty that makes sense, however a standard 510 atomizers are not at 3Ω, they are 2.3-2.5Ω. So like I said in the 510 world people are not seeing that much of a drop in battery life even using a Tornado battery.

2) You will damage the batteries with those 1,5 ohm atties because the c rate of most batteries is less than what those atties need. But even if you use those limn AW batteries with big c rate then you lose the big mah lion batteries!

This is some what true, but misleading. Most RCR123a batteries do not have the C rating to meet the 2.8a draw with 3.7v at 1.5Ω other than the LiMNs, but most 18650s do have enough (more than enough in most cases). At 4.2v (freshly charged battery) at 1.5Ω the max drain would be 2.8a. Here are some numbers from 18650 batteries based on their C rating:

- AW 18650 (2200mAh) = <4.4A (non LiMN)
- Ultrafire 18650 (3000mAh)= <4.5A (non LiMN)
- AW IMR 18650 (1600mAh)= <16A (LiMN)

More than enough to cover the 2.8a draw.

3) burn taste is more than sure! Remember that people were complained about burn taste at 1,7 amperes, so imagine at 2,6 amperes!! I dont know what HV atties you use but iatties dont have burn taste at all.

Like I said I have not had a chance to test the i6 or i7 attys, but will as soon as they are in stock. I use a 4.5Ω atty at 6v that gives me 8w and a 5.2Ω at 7.4v that gives me 10.53w. I usually do not get a burnt taste with these setups unless my atty is running dry. Now if I put a standard 2.5Ω atty on at either 6v or 7v, I get a burnt taste pretty quickly. These LR attys are not to be used at 6v or 7v, they are only for 3.7v.

I think that iatties have a +30% more life than other HV ones. I also asked SLB to make a trick to my atties. I told them to put a plastic nut under the head of the center pole of the atty so we will not have shorts any more. That means that we will save atomizers, batteries, springs and explotions

I am not knocking your design at all, air flow, build materials and many other variables play a role in atomizer performance, I am just saying that there are benefits to LR atomizers at 3.7v and it will even get you right in the middle of what people consider the sweet spot for vaping (between 8-10w).

 

[kaji]

Kai, you know already the 5 reasons that I made the HV atties but you still think that the only reason I made them is to lower the watts.

Ok, I will say the reasons again:

Battery life
atomizer's life
big watts
not burning taste
no electronic parts inside GG

Sorry didn't mean to imply your imeoatomizers in my statement, I am saying HV atomizers in general were developed to lower wattage. Your design being that they are different may cover more design criteria.

Like I said above I am not knocking your design at all, I think they are well built and well engineered. I love my GG products, but I think with the new development in LR atomizers, some of your design criteria can be meet at 3.7v.

 

[imeothanasis]

I never said that you are knocking my design!! Of course you dont.
But I first made the HV atomizers and other people followed. They just copied my idea and they didnt knew all of my reasons, thats why I posted them again.

Kaji,
I dont know if those LR atomizers will stay on market but yes they have their place on GG for now. But I was looking for a way to double the battery life at 6 volts and now we go back again. I really dont see a new advantage on LR atties, only disadvantages for now.

As I said, the advantages of HV atomizers are:

Battery life
atomizer's life
big watts
not burning taste
no electronic parts inside GG

LV atomizers dont meet the 2 first reasons, maybe the 4th one too, so what's the point of making them?

 

[kaji]

Why would a LV atty stay on the market? Well lets see.

1. They actually do provide more battery life than most 6v setups. Look at most common 6v or 7v configurations.

2 - 3.0v RCR123a with an average of ~750mah
2 - 3.7v RCR123a with an average of ~750mah

While you can get a 18650 with 2200 or 3000mah. Seems like more battery life to me even with a reduction in life due to more current.

2. Like I said this hasn't been proven yet. To lower resistance of an atomizer (cost effectively), there are only so many things one could do. My guess is that the nichrome coil has a larger diameter. So while there is more current passing though it, that could affect longevity, this maybe offset by a more robust (thicker gauge) coil. Only time will tell if they are less robust than others.

3. Big watts doesn't necessarily mean better. Once you exceed or go below a threshold, your performance (and more importantly), your experience will diminish. Most people seem to agree that most eliquid is at its optimal between 8-10w. This means optimal flavor, vapor volume and warmth, etc. is best at this heat (watts). Go above it and you are likely to get a nasty burnt taste, go below it and you do not get much vapor or taste.

4. Like I said, when I use different atomizers with different resistances to compensate for different voltages, I do not get a burnt taste unless the atomizer is dry. This is why many people felt that 5v was the sweet spot. While the voltage played a part in the equation, it was directly related to atomizer resistance. Since standard atomizers where the predominate type on the market until HV and LV became available, 2.5Ω at 5v put you right at 10w.

5. Not sure how LV affects this as it will still remain the same with a LV atty.

 

[Wafflestomper]

Wow. This is a fascinating conversation.

Wish I understood it

Please do continue!

 

[imeothanasis]

Kaji, I compare anything new with my inventions, so LV are a disaster for the battery life, thas for sure because they reduce it at more than 50%

I am almost positive about the 2, because I saw what happens to a regular atty at 6 volts and of course at 7,2 volts

I dont disagree with your 3. But we have already what you say with HV atties and without the disadvantages of the LV atties

About your 5., I dont disagree, I only said my reasons for making the HV atties. It was not for conversation