ID bill to make e-cig sale & possession same as tobacco regarding minors

[BoiseMike]

I think this bill just makes e-cigs fall into the same regulations as tobacco when it comes to sales and possession regarding minors. Nothing about places of use. That's fine with me. Does anyone see anything fishy here I need to contact legislators about?
http://www.legislature.idaho.gov/legislation/2012/H0405.pdf

Thanks.

 

[Semiretired]

Basically they are making it so you cannot buy e-cigs online unless some type of age verification and credit card verification has taken place. This is where it is all headed eventually. You will have to buy through a brick and mortar store eventually to buy all ecig products unless an acceptable variation can be created where the vendors can do an age verification that the government will accept...

 

[Pega]

Basically they are making it so you cannot buy e-cigs online unless some type of age verification and credit card verification has taken place. This is where it is all headed eventually. You will have to buy through a brick and mortar store eventually to buy all ecig products unless an acceptable variation can be created where the vendors can do an age verification that the government will accept...

Sorry, this may sound like a stupid question, but why is credit card verification insufficient?

 

[5vz]

Sorry, this may sound like a stupid question, but why is credit card verification insufficient?

I don't know about anything new, but just about anyone can get a credit card. Via paper application or online. Many years ago I knew a 14 year old that had 6, she did not have an i.d. or an income. This of course became a problem a little down the line when the parents were eventually notified. She just filled out paper forms and lied about all of the info. Of course this may no longer work, but according to the news companies still take take torn up credit card applications. This is why you should shred that junk mail. Someone else gets a card in your name. It is a mess.

So credit cards are not verification of who you are, how old you are, or how to tax you.

ETA: Anyone remember the news story on the poodle (or small dog, I can't remember the breed for certain) with a credit card? That was crazy.

 

[Bill Godshall]

I noticed that the proposed Idaha legislation posted by BoiseMike doesn't require e-cigarette sellers to obtain tobacco retail permits (that all tobacco retailers are required to obtain), that the fine is $100 for selling an e-cigarette to a minor (while fines for selling tobacco to minors increase for subsequent offenses), and that e-cigarettes aren't taxed under the bill.

I urge e-cigarette vendors and consumers in Idaho to encourage legislators to support this bill (HB 405), as doing so will demonstrate that the e-cigarette industry opposes marketing to youth.

 

[Semiretired]

While I cannot say all, but the tobacco laws pertaining to analogs require a person to person exchange of the transaction with a visual check of the id to ensure the individual receiving is not underage. I know there are loopholes, but it is a statement that I have read many times. In almost any store you go into you will see a sign depicting carding (at least in my state and the others I have visited lately)...

If these PV vendors want to stay in business on-line they need to find out a way to run their business with an acceptable form of age verification. A credit card company is supposed to verify the person that the credit card is being given to, but that only entails that the information is real and that the person on the form is real... This piece of legislation spelled out "devices", which means all of your custom mods and such...

It could be a rocky road ahead...

 

[Semiretired]

I noticed that the proposed Idaha legislation posted by BoiseMike doesn't require e-cigarette sellers to obtain tobacco retail permits (that all tobacco retailers are required to obtain), that the fine is $100 for selling an e-cigarette to a minor (while fines for selling tobacco to minors increase for subsequent offenses), and that e-cigarettes aren't taxed under the bill.

I urge e-cigarette vendors and consumers in Idaho to encourage legislators to support this bill (HB 405), as doing so will demonstrate that the e-cigarette industry opposes marketing to youth.

Bill, I noticed your position and after a little bit of googling found you are very active in anti-smoking - so I have to ask a question. Without putting all of these PV vendors out of business -

What would be an acceptable method to allow on-line sales of ecigs and their devices with an age verification method that would not be shot down by your organization or any other by the way. I can think of several methods that could be adopted, but may not be acceptable across the board.

If this arena ends up behind just brick and mortar type stores the costs will escalate and more people will just continue to smoke analogs and never try to convert.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Per inquiry by Semiretired, any effective method of preventing tobacco (or e-cigarette) sales to minors is acceptable to me.

Virtually all tobacco sales to minors have occurred in brick and mortar stores (or via an adult who purchases at a brick and mortar store).

While its possible, there is no empirical evidence indicating that minors purchase tobacco products (or e-cigarettes) via the Internet, telephone or mail order.

And since all states are required to conduct compliance checks using youth who attempt to purchase tobacco products from retailers, and since the FDA is now similarly conducting compliance checks of tobacco retailers, the percentage of tobacco retailers that are caught selling tobacco to minors has declined from more than 50% two decades ago to just 4% last year.

Several State AGs and several health departments that oppose e-cigarettes have conducted compliance checks on e-cigarette retailers (including some online retailers) hoping that they could catch someone selling to a minor (so they can issue a press release claiming that e-cigarette companies are marketing to minors).

So online retailers should be aware that the next purchaser may be a teenager who is working for a health department (although I'm not aware of any state AGs conducting compliance checks in the past year).

 

[bryansthl]

The town that I live I see under agers bying analog cigarettes on regular basis at the stores where they know the person working so they don't ID them. I allso see them smoking anologs in public while our police officers drive by and do nothing. The one thing I have yet to see where I live is an under ager with an e-cigarette.

 

[Semiretired]

Per inquiry by Semiretired, any effective method of preventing tobacco (or e-cigarette) sales to minors is acceptable to me.

Virtually all tobacco sales to minors have occurred in brick and mortar stores (or via an adult who purchases at a brick and mortar store).

While its possible, there is no empirical evidence indicating that minors purchase tobacco products (or e-cigarettes) via the Internet, telephone or mail order.

And since all states are required to conduct compliance checks using youth who attempt to purchase tobacco products from retailers, and since the FDA is now similarly conducting compliance checks of tobacco retailers, the percentage of tobacco retailers that are caught selling tobacco to minors has declined from more than 50% two decades ago to just 4% last year.

Several State AGs and several health departments that oppose e-cigarettes have conducted compliance checks on e-cigarette retailers (including some online retailers) hoping that they could catch someone selling to a minor (so they can issue a press release claiming that e-cigarette companies are marketing to minors).

So online retailers should be aware that the next purchaser may be a teenager who is working for a health department (although I'm not aware of any state AGs conducting compliance checks in the past year).

Thanks for the honesty in your answer. I am one of those vapers that is using it as a smoking cessation method and have plans of then reducing the nic levels steadily and quit vaping also, but I will also be one that will keep a device handy for moments that I might slip and I do not want it to be back to tobacco / analogs. This will be gradually, but it will happen.

I asked my questions and made my statements as I worry about the small businesses that could literally be run out of business if this is not handled properly. I do not condone sales to minors and truly believe that e-cigs are not really attracting minors as of yet, but I know that it will happen as time goes on and e-cigs become more popular. I just hope that whatever directions this takes - it goes in the right direction for everyone...nothing more...

 

[Bill Godshall]

Idaho Senate approves legislation (H 405) to ban e-cigarette sales to minors, sent to governor to sign.
Bill Status: H0405

Since this bill was approved unanimously by the ID House and ID Senate, its going to become law.

 

[BoiseMike]

Great. Can't have too many laws.

 

[DietSalem]

Isn't it more the parents who should be in charge of making sure their kids are not buying illegal things on the internet?

 

[BoiseMike]

No, DietSalem. We all realize that parents can no longer do their jobs and it's up to the state, who really knows better, to raise our kids.

 

[VaporPhreak]

Right there with ya DietSalem & BoiseMike... I swear if I hear one more parent pull that stupid "It takes a village..." crap when they are clearly failing as a parent, I'm gonna get violent...

On Topic: On the surface this looks like a decent law... I don't want to see an e-cig in the hands of a minor. Granted, I don't want to see them with a cigarette either. And, at least its better than an outright ban.

 

[CDnerds]

Sorry, this may sound like a stupid question, but why is credit card verification insufficient?

No. Any kid can steal his or her parents credit card. The next question is Isnt that the fault of the parent? Yes, it is but the USA is a nanny state.