FDA If nicotine is so addictive...

[Gato del Jugo]

Then why don't nic gum, patches & lozenges require the same warning label that's being proposed for e-cigs..?


"This product contains nicotine derived from tobacco. Nicotine is an addictive chemical."


And why have I been able to fairly easily reduce my nic level, thanks to vaping, during the past several months by over 90% (18mg to 1.5mg)?

(Arguably I could have done that much quicker, too..)


Could my nicotine reduction via vaping be somehow related to this..?


Tobacco smoke contains anabasine, anatabine, and nornicotine. It also contains the monoamine oxidase inhibitors harman and norharman.These beta-carboline compounds significantly decrease MAO activity in smokers. MAO enzymes break down monoaminergic neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. It is thought that the powerful interaction between the MAOIs and the nicotine is responsible for most of the addictive properties of tobacco smoking. The addition of five minor tobacco alkaloids increases nicotine-induced hyperactivity, sensitization and intravenous self-administration in rats.

Chronic nicotine exposure via tobacco smoking up-regulates alpha4beta2* nAChR in cerebellum and brainstem regions but not habenulopeduncular structures. Alpha4beta2 and alpha6beta2 receptors, present in the ventral tegmental area, play a crucial role in mediating the reinforcement effects of nicotine.

Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Anyway, speaking of nic patches, I find it interesting that a manufacturer of them finds e-cigs so threatening, that they now actually have a separate page bashing them at their website, with the link found under the "Quitting Support" tab, as well as on almost every single page of their website prominently displayed on the righthand side (I broke the link)..

http://www . nicodermcq.com/quitting-support/e-cigarette

 

[Nate760]

I often find myself asking similar questions of ANTZ, particularly the ones who seem to think "nicotine" and "smoking" are synonymous terms.

It doesn't really take a rocket surgeon to figure out that if smoking addiction and nicotine dependency were the same thing, the traditional NRT therapies wouldn't all have failure rates in excess of 95%.

Of course, there's also the fact that nicotine dependence has never been observed or successfully induced in any individual who had no previous history of tobacco use.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

It doesn't really take a rocket surgeon to figure out that if smoking addiction and nicotine dependency were the same thing, the traditional NRT therapies wouldn't all have failure rates in excess of 95%.

That's certainly a large part of it..

I also believe the hand-to-mouth motions, the inhale/exhale thing, etc., also play a role -- all of which gum, patches & lozenges do not replicate like vaping does...


Anyway, I find that page at the patch website highly disturbing..

Could you imagine what a storm it would create if an e-cig manufacturer or vendor made claims along the same vein, but bashing patches like that, instead??


The fact that the verbiage & message is allowed to stay there makes it obvious where the FDA stands on all this...

 

[Nate760]

That's certainly a large part of it..

I also believe the hand-to-mouth motions, the inhale/exhale thing, etc., also play a role -- all of which gum, patches & lozenges do not replicate like vaping does...

Yes, without a doubt. A smoking addiction is a complex and multifaceted thing, so much so that it's probably more accurate to describe it as two separate addictions (one physiological, one behavioral) that coexist and reinforce one another.

 

[Sarin]

I'll throw another spanner in the works and suggest that it might be one of the other numerous alkaloids in tobacco that add to the addictiveness. The scientific community doesn't 100% support that nicotine IS addictive, there are some that think it's a combination of chemicals that make tobacco so addictive. Your e liquid doesn't have the other alkaloids in it - just a thought?

 

[Nermal]

I'm sure you're right, Sarin. My assumption when I started vaping was that nicotine, and only nicotine was the addictive component of tobacco smoke. I was happy to switch, just to get away from smoking. Now, I'm trying WTAs to help with the craving. Again, it's a tradeoff I'm willing to make.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

Yes, without a doubt. A smoking addiction is a complex and multifaceted thing, so much so that it's probably more accurate to describe it as two separate addictions (one physiological, one behavioral) that coexist and reinforce one another.

Even when I'm at full-time zero-nic, which will probably be sometime this summer, I believe quitting vaping from that point will be a long-term process, due to the behavioral things that I've already mentioned here, and even stuff like watching my VG clouds float & swirl about, which is relaxing & stress-relieving in itself...


Obviously I'm against every single aspect of that proposal, which includes the warning on the label that would state, "Nicotine is an addictive chemical."

The word "is" is a very strong & definitive one, and it opens the door to a lot more down the road, including further regulation & the basis for local, state & federal taxation..


At a quick glance, many say, "Oh, that's not too bad.. it's only a silly warning label that nobody reads, anyway"..

But I beg to differ.. By getting that warning in there, the FDA is simply setting us up..

The same goes for the "under 18" proposal..


These guys aren't dumb.. They know exactly what they're doing & how to go about doing it...

 

[minitater]

The drug companies who make patches have lobbyists with money. E cigarette folks ( except big tobacco) do not. It's not about science, truth, logic, whats right...it's all about who has the money to keep from being regulated.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

The drug companies who make patches have lobbyists with money. E cigarette folks ( except big tobacco) do not. It's not about science, truth, logic, whats right...it's all about who has the money to keep from being regulated.

But that's not what the FDA is selling to the pubic!


They keep repeating that they're a "science-based" organization..

And they're even asking us for our science-based input!

[/sarcasm]


I guess "science" is code-word for "money"..


Just as there was a campaign to "End the Fed," there needs to be one to "End the FDA"...

 

[catlady60]

If nicotine in itself is so addictive, why do so many people who switch from smoking to vaping go through withdrawal symptoms despite still getting nic from their PVs?

 

[Sarin]

If nicotine in itself is so addictive, why do so many people who switch from smoking to vaping go through withdrawal symptoms despite still getting nic from their PVs?

Due to the 4000+ other chemicals that are in tobacco, the ones that they are not sure yes or no if they are addictive. As i mentioned above there are numerous other alkaloids of which nicotine is one in tobacco but there has to be a "target" and nicotine is it. There are 5 minor alkaloids in tobacco which include; anabasine, nornicotine, anatabine, cotinine and myosmine and research has suggested that they could increase the motivation for nicotine, hence why some of the science community don't believe that nicotine is as addictive as first thought but combine it with the minor alkaloids and it becomes a powerful beast.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

I think catlady was alluding to that..

 

[pamdis]

Best part of that bash of e-cigs on the nicoderm website is this statement:

we’ve helped millions of people with their quit attempt

Then the sentence ends with an '**' that says further down in a tiny font:

**Based on sales data.

Not 'helped millions quit, based on clinical data', but 'helped millions attempt to quit, based on sales data'.

Gotta give 'em credit for being truthful in their misleading statements.

 

[Zanderist]

I'd hate to be lame, but isn't the gum stuff a smoking cessation product where as an E-cig a pleasure product?

 

[Rickajho]

Then why don't nic gum, patches & lozenges require the same warning label that's being proposed for e-cigs..?

How many times do I gotta tell you - you aren't supposed to notice things like that.

 

[AndriaD]

If nicotine in itself is so addictive, why do so many people who switch from smoking to vaping go through withdrawal symptoms despite still getting nic from their PVs?

This is a very good question, which I've wondered myself. It also tells me that my 16-yr gradual decrease in smoking, from 3+ pks a day, to just about a pk a day, of ultra-light cigarettes, is actually a very good thing for me now, since I've quit. I've had very, very few actual "cravings;" in fact I can't think of a single one that I thought was actually a physical craving. For me it's about 99% behavioral, which explains why I was able to quit smoking while vaping at 6mg. I did increase that when the cigarettes were gone, because I found that I was puffing constantly, so I went to 8mg, and later to 9mg, which finally seems about right, but it's still quite a low level of nicotine, and still not as much as I was getting even from a pk a day of ultra-lights. But it feels so similar, the hand-to-mouth, the tingle in mouth, tongue, and throat, the taste, the sensation of inhaling/exhaling something, it all feels familiar and pleasurable, and that seems to be pretty much enough.

At the 3 wk point, I became quite depressed; that yucky old self-pity feeling that I've been trying to get rid of for my whole life hit me like Noah's flood, and for most of a week, I hated myself, the world, and everyone and everything in it -- but I didn't have cravings, just negative feelings. That was most likely those MAOIs taking their leave of me, and once they were finally fully gone and my body had accustomed, I went right back to being totally euphoric about quitting, and all aspects of vaping -- even the leaking/dry hit issues beat the hell out of coughing up a lung every 5 minutes but going out for a smoke anyway, and damn the cough!

Andria

 

[Kent C]

And... I was looking at the Nicotrol inhaler as a possible 'predicate' for substantial equivalence. since it is inhaling nicotine....

The nic base for Nicotrol inhalers (FDA APPROVED NRT) contain nicotine suspended in pyridine. (cut/paste from VF)

From Wikipedia: Pyridine was originally industrial produced by extraction from coal tar (carcinogen). It is currently synthesized from formaldehyde (carcinogen), ammonia, and acetaldehyde (probable or possible carcinogen in humans).

 

[Stosh]

Nicotine addiction or cravings, two different things science-wise, have never been studied in depth without smoking and burning vegetable matter being the vehicle of dispensing the nicotine. Actual "addictive" properties of pure nicotine is still an unknown.

 

[tombaker]

And... I was looking at the Nicotrol inhaler as a possible 'predicate' for substantial equivalence. since it is inhaling nicotine....

The nic base for Nicotrol inhalers (FDA APPROVED NRT) contain nicotine suspended in pyridine. (cut/paste from VF)

From Wikipedia: Pyridine was originally industrial produced by extraction from coal tar (carcinogen). It is currently synthesized from formaldehyde (carcinogen), ammonia, and acetaldehyde (probable or possible carcinogen in humans).

Was doing the same. However when you create a molecule from others, the others are no longer there, it is the new molecule. I suppose it would be an issue only if the molecule degrades back into it composition constituents.

The MSDS yields

PYRIDINE:
IRRITATION DATA:
500 mg/24 hour(s) skin-rabbit mild
TOXICITY DATA:
10 gm/m3 inhalation-mammal LC50; 1 gm/
kg skin-guinea pig LD50; 1500 mg/kg oral-
mouse LD50
CARCINOGEN STATUS:
IARC: Human Inadequate Evidence,
Animal Limited Evidence, Group 3;
ACGIH: A3 -Confirmed Animal Carcinogen
LOCAL EFFECTS:
Irritant: skin, eye
ACUTE TOXICITY LEVEL:
Toxic: inhalation, dermal absorption
Moderately Toxic: ingestion
TARGET ORGANS:
central nervous system
MEDICAL CONDITIONS AGG
RAVATED BY EXPOSURE:
central nervous system disorders, kidney
disorders, liver disorders
TUMORIGENIC DATA:
Available.
MUTAGENIC DATA:
Available.

 

[darkcelestialillumination]

http ://betobaccofree.hhs. gov/health-effects/nicotine-health/index.html

Tobacco companies also use additives and chemicals to make them more addictive.