If price is the same, would you choose a 20A battery or a 25A battery?

[VNeil]

Assuming a 3.2 v cutoff thats more like 37 amps.

I didn't want to be accused of getting hysterical about this, so I was conservative in my cut off (my go to mods seem to cut off at 3.5) . But you are, at least, in theory, correct.

In practice though, the voltage sag that gets worse and worse as the battery discharges prevents the battery from putting out nearly the amount of power that the mod is set for. The bad news is that the difference between what the mod is set to and what the mod delivers is (more or less) dissipated as heat. Which is why I personally don't push batteries as hard as mod makers and marketers "push" users to do.

ETA: My "3.5V" was the resting voltage that the battery shows when it goes into the charger. Which is not the voltage that the battery is at least trying to deliver at the end of it's charge cycle but my mods don't show that voltage so I tend not to guestimate that unless I want to think too hard about it.

 

[Eskie]

As an aside to the issue of the battery selection, never ever believe a manufacturers "recommended" range for factory coils. They are frequently inflated, a bit like rewraps of batteries. Start low, increase the power slowly, stop when you like the vape. you may or may not be within that "recommended" range, but a good chance you won't and will be below it. Maybe even on the high side if that's your preference. Just don't take the coil labeling as what it "must" be used at for the best vape.

 

[VNeil]

As an aside to the issue of the battery selection, never ever believe a manufacturers "recommended" range for factory coils. They are frequently inflated, a bit like rewraps of batteries. Start low, increase the power slowly, stop when you like the vape. you may or may not be within that "recommended" range, but a good chance you won't and will be below it. Maybe even on the high side if that's your preference. Just don't take the coil labeling as what it "must" be used at for the best vape.

Would you agree, though, that very low resistance coils need more power to deliver an equivalent vape?

 

[Eskie]

Would you agree, though, that very low resistance coils need more power to deliver an equivalent vape?

It will all depend on the coil's construction. The more metal, the more mass to heat, the more current required. In a regulated mod, the resistance isn't the factor, it's how much wattage the user feels is necessary to get an acceptable vape out of the coil. Just lok at the list the OP posted for coil choices.

Maybe I should take a look at the revenger, which is a dual battery mod from vaporesso.

Because the coils listed for the swag and the revenger all have a bit higher recommended wattage settings than 30W for example.

NRG GT2 Core Single Coil 0.4ohm Atomizer Head for Variable Wattage

• Designed for: 40 - 80W / Manufacturer's Recommended Wattage Range: 55 - 65W

NRG GT4 Core Quad Coil 0.15ohm Atomizer Head for Variable Wattage

• Designed for: 30 - 70W / Manufacturer's Recommended Wattage Range: 45 - 60W

NRG GT6 Core Clapton Coil 0.2ohm Atomizer Head for Variable Wattage

• Designed for: 40 - 100W / Manufacturer's Recommended Wattage Range: 70 - 90W

NRG GT8 Core Parallel Quad Coil 0.15ohm Atomizer Head for Variable Wattage

• Designed for: 50 - 110W / Manufacturer's Recommended Wattage Range: 60 - 80W

There are two 0.15 ohm coils with different recommended ratings, and a 0.2 ohm coil that has a higher "recommended" range than the lower 0.15 ohm coils. Then there's a plain single core 0.4 ohm coil they're sticking in the same range as the 4 lower ohm coils. Me, I doubt a single core 0.4 ohm coil will need 55W (never mind 65) to vape well.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Would you agree, though, that very low resistance coils need more power to deliver an equivalent vape?

It depends on how the coil is built. Thinner wire and less surface area (like a Protank coil) will fry at the same wattage of a DIY coil of thicker wire and more wraps, even though both might show the same resistance.

On the same type of coil with a regulated device, resistance doesn't matter. Wattage does.

 

[VNeil]

It will all depend on the coil's construction. The more metal, the more mass to heat, the more current required. In a regulated mod, the resistance isn't the factor, it's how much wattage the user feels is necessary to get an acceptable vape out of the coil. Just lok at the list the OP posted for coil choices.



There are two 0.15 ohm coils with different recommended ratings, and a 0.2 ohm coil that has a higher "recommended" range than the lower 0.15 ohm coils. Then there's a plain single core 0.4 ohm coil they're sticking in the same range as the 4 lower ohm coils. Me, I doubt a single core 0.4 ohm coil will need 55W (never mind 65) to vape well.

Would you consider a single coil, 0.4R coil optimum for, say, 30 watts?

 

[VNeil]

It depends on how the coil is built. Thinner wire and less surface area (like a Protank coil) will fry at the same wattage of a DIY coil of thicker wire and more wraps, even though both might show the same resistance.

On the same type of coil with a regulated device, resistance doesn't matter. Wattage does.

Then an awful lot of people here are wasting an awful lot of time experimenting with different coil configurations. Just build any old coil and put enough wattage into it? The key here is "type". Personally I haven't had good success with multiple coils, for example, unless enough power is put into it. And low resistance single coils tend to have too little surface area. I'm not saying those coils won't work at 30W, I just suspect there are better configurations that the maker didn't bother with because they were obsessed with dazzling the buyer with low resistance. And they have to now since that is where the marketing is taking newbies (and maybe most users).

 

[Eskie]

Would you consider a single coil, 0.4R coil optimum for, say, 30 watts?

Depending on the build and individual preference, sure. I like my 0.4 ohm Q2 bb/bbb coil at ~40W. I think the recommended range on it is something like 40 or 45W to 60W. That's why I always encourage start low and work your way up to find what works for you. It's also the same for breaking in a new coil. Prime, then start low after sitting in juice for several minutes in the tank, then you work your way back up to the power you prefer. My coils are all pretty happy with that and no dry/burnt hits and decent coil life.

 

[VNeil]

Depending on the build and individual preference, sure. I like my 0.4 ohm Q2 bb/bbb coil at ~40W. I think the recommended range on it is something like 40 or 45W to 60W. That's why I always encourage start low and work your way up to find what works for you. It's also the same for breaking in a new coil. Prime, then start low after sitting in juice for several minutes in the tank, then you work your way back up to the power you prefer. My coils are all pretty happy with that and no dry/burnt hits and decent coil life.

OK, my experience is different but using different gear. We are drifting from my original comment, though, which is that the makers are encouraging and training users to push the power envelopes of their mods. Especially the single battery example.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Then an awful lot of people here are wasting an awful lot of time experimenting with different coil configurations. Just build any old coil and put enough wattage into it? The key here is "type".

Not only coil type, but wire material, wire diameter, coil diameter and number of wraps.

Personally I haven't had good success with multiple coils, for example, unless enough power is put into it. And low resistance single coils tend to have too little surface area. I'm not saying those coils won't work at 30W, I just suspect there are better configurations that the maker didn't bother with because they were obsessed with dazzling the buyer with low resistance. And they have to now since that is where the marketing is taking newbies (and maybe most users).

In the picture below are four stock coils from my current inventory (there are about a half dozen others; this is enough to make my point). From left to right:

1. GeekVape Illusion I4, 0.15Ω
2. SmokTeck Baby Q2, 0.4Ω
3. KangerTech VOCC, 1.2Ω
4. KangerTech Protank II, 2.0Ω

Put 25 Watts into these four coils in their respective tanks and you will get:

1. Nothing at all
2. A very weak, unsatisfying vape
3. An almost perfect vape for restricted DL or strong MTL use
4. Zzzzzt! POP!

The Protank II coil is tiny, wrapped with hair-thin 30+ g Kanthal in a single horizontal coil. By stark contrast, the I4 has quad vertical coils in what looks like 26 or 28 g Kanthal or NiChrome.

Look at the difference in sheer mass of each coil, forgetting for a moment what the resistance reading might be. It should be obvious that it will take a LOT more power to heat up the larger mass coils. The I4 is theoretically capable of 260 Watts. The Q2 can take about 80. The VOCC tops out at 55-ish, and the Protank is harsh at 12.

In the context of this thread, if you're going to be firing the I4 then you want max output--go with the 25A batteries. If you're firing either of the Kangers, go with the 20A and better runtime. If you're firing the Smok, it's a pick'em.

 

[Baditude]

Then an awful lot of people here are wasting an awful lot of time experimenting with different coil configurations.

Bingo!!

I've been an advocate for the KISS system for years. Keep It Simple, Stupid

I get how building coils is a hobby and artform. More power to those who get joy and satisfaction for the time and work they put into it. For myself, I just want to vape to get my fix. A simple single or dual coil build works for me.

 

[bwh79]

Would you agree, though, that very low resistance coils need more power to deliver an equivalent vape?

It's not about the resistance. Think instead about "how much metal" (we call it "coil mass") there is to heat up. 3 wraps of skinny little 30ga Kanthal around a 3mm bit gives approximately 1 ohm resistance. Sixteen wraps of big fat 22ga would have the same 1 ohm resistance. One of these has a lot more metal, and therefore requires a lot more power to heat all that metal, than the other one.

 

[sofarsogood]

My feeling is that anyone using a regulated mod that allows the user to choose the battery should be able to do a watts law calculation from memory and understand how that applies to the choice of battery.

Volts x amps = watts where volts is the voltage where the mod is programed to stop firing, amps is the amp rating of the battery and watts is the maximum setting that will be used.

For some vapers the hobby is pushing everything to the max to see what they can get away with. My approach is the reverse. I'm looking for the minimum watts that will give me a satisfying vape. At the moment my Pico single battery mod is set to 12 watts with 0.3 second pre heat of 150% of the watts setting. Solving the equation for amp rating is 18 / 3 volts = 6 amps, That isn't exactly right but close enough to say that a battery rated for 20 amps has plenty more rated amps than needed for the way I vape. That 20 amp rated battery has 3000 mah of capacity which is enogh for a full work day an almost enough for a day off. The arctic fox firmware I favor let's me set a max watts that can't be exceeded in any mode until II dig through the menu and change it so that's set a 30 watts max for some extra safety cushion.

 

[Letitia]

 

[IgnorantCig]

As I am sitting here and typing this, I am vaping at 26.5 watts on my Target Mini, with a 0.5 ceramic coil, and there ends my entire knowledge about coils, since I've never bothered to build a single coil before. For the past 2.5 years, since I first began vaping, I've only used factory coils on all of my devices (slim vape pen, kanger evod, endura t-22, target mini), and that's worked out ok for me.

I just go by feel and taste. When I put in a brand new coil, I start up the watts low, at around 15, because I don't want to mess up any new coil or burn them. Then I just slowly work my way up from 15, and I usually end up at around 25-30, because that's where it tastes nice (for me at least) and the clouds are also decent.

With the new mod, I suppose that I am going to do the same thing, just do it by feel and taste, and I'll see where I end up at.

I'm also going to try out a few different types of coils, and whichever one tastes and vapes the best and lasts a while, that's the one that I'm probably going to keep using.

 

[VictorViper]

Not a bad way to do it, man. I spent a lot of time, money and effort figuring out the best vape for me, and once I found it, things got "boring" - nothing but perfect Vapes all of the time. How ho hum!

 

[Letitia]

whichever one tastes and vapes the best and lasts a while, that's the one that I'm probably going to keep using.

That is the only way to do it. Just enjoy the journey, you don't want it to become a chore.

 

[VNeil]

It's not about the resistance. Think instead about "how much metal" (we call it "coil mass") there is to heat up. 3 wraps of skinny little 30ga Kanthal around a 3mm bit gives approximately 1 ohm resistance. Sixteen wraps of big fat 22ga would have the same 1 ohm resistance. One of these has a lot more metal, and therefore requires a lot more power to heat all that metal, than the other one.

I understand that it is all about surface area. But when you cut the resistance in half, say, it is tough to retain that surface area. I fought that battle when I started building coils and experimenting. I quickly figured that the 0.7R dual coil setups I was building were tough to beat if I tried to lower the resistance. But I have to admit I never fought that battle hard because I saw no real advantage of going lower resistance just for the sake of it.

I saw the same thing with commercial coils for, say, my STMs. The higher resistance coils seemed to perform better (from a taste point of view- I'm not a Clouds Bro guy).

 

[bwh79]

I understand that it is all about surface area. But when you cut the resistance in half, say, it is tough to retain that surface area.

Shorter wire -> less resistance -> smaller surface area
Fatter wire -> less resistance -> larger surface area

Instead of just using one or the other, try both. Use a wire that's shorter and fatter than the one you've used before. It will have lower resistance, but similar surface area (reduced due to shorter length, but then increased due to larger girth). If you just do one or the other, yeah, the resistance will change but so will the surface area. If you want to change the resistance but not surface area, you have to change both the wire length and thickness.

 

[kbeam418]

It's not about the resistance. Think instead about "how much metal" (we call it "coil mass") there is to heat up. 3 wraps of skinny little 30ga Kanthal around a 3mm bit gives approximately 1 ohm resistance. Sixteen wraps of big fat 22ga would have the same 1 ohm resistance. One of these has a lot more metal, and therefore requires a lot more power to heat all that metal, than the other one.

Yep if you use tc you can actually see the difference. When I used ni200 30g I only needed around 10-15 watts in my kf5 at 410-420f. With 26g SS304 I need around 20-25, during the preheat it's around 40-55 watts for about one second. Thicker wire needs more power. I've got a clapton build, in my velocity, that needs 150 watts to get a nice warm vape.