I'm a believer of cotton now!

[Rickb119]

I use cotton too - one thing that concerns me a bit is that after I go through about 2 tanks on my Protank - and change out the wick - the cotton is BLACK....and the juice in the coil is BLACK......looks like the cotton is burning and not sure if that is healthy to be vaping cotton ash - NOW NOW - before yall go off and say "u smoked for years and now u worried about a little bit of ash.... I am just wondering if yall see the same or is just me?

I'm seeing the same thing but I don't think it's the cotton. My "theory" is, the coil is operating much more efficiently with the cotton (thus the better flavor and vapor) causing the coil to gunk up quickly. Plus, at least in my case, most of my juice is dark and sweet which does hasten the process.

A question. Is the better flavor worth having to rebuild every 2 tanks? My answer would be a resounding YES!!!!!!

 

[haproot]

Meanwhile, every time I roll a cotton wick from a cotton ball, it tastes like I'm vaping motor oil. I've tried (and failed) to build at least 30 heads now, only one of which was mildly acceptable.

How are you guys building them? Do you wrap the coil around a drill bit and then feed the cotton in? When you're ready to go, is the cotton easy to twist inside or is it pretty thick and hugging the coils tightly? I've tried every scenario I can think of. It's obvious I'm doing something wrong or else I'd have greater success with it, but as far as I can tell I'll likely keep buying Nova heads. At least that thing never lets me down.

You want the cotton loose enough so that it does not bind when you move it back and forth in the coil. I will wrap a coil around a drill bit. Been using a 5/64th with about 9 or 10 wraps of 30g kanthal. I also make my coils touch so they are not spaced. If you have spaces in your coil it may not need as many wraps. IMO it seems to be about the right size for an appropriate wick and for the coil head. I then place the wick in the coil after I've built the head. A little goes a long ways.

You may need to boil your cotton as it may not be totally clean. I've been using sterile absorbent rolled cotton from the medical isle at CVS and it does not need to be boiled.

 

[tom_chang79]

I'm seeing the same thing but I don't think it's the cotton. My "theory" is, the coil is operating much more efficiently with the cotton (thus the better flavor and vapor) causing the coil to gunk up quickly. Plus, at least in my case, most of my juice is dark and sweet which does hasten the process.

A question. Is the better flavor worth having to rebuild every 2 tanks? My answer would be a resounding YES!!!!!!

I agree, in the end, isn't it all about tasting our juice???

 

[damthisisfun]

I totally agree with the flavor being way better than silica - dont get me wrong. I was just wondering what that dark gunk is. I too vape dark juices - maybe that is what is causing it.....BUNNY BALLS OR BUNNY ROLLS OR BUNNY YARNS - what ever your choice- RULE...

 

[magicmyst]

Guys, yesterday I built my first 3 coils using 30 gauge, 8 wraps on a 1/16" drill bit, nice tight coils with resistance at 1.8 to 2.1Ω. Just enough cotton to pull through before moving the coil. They're firing fine, good vapor production, no dry or burnt hits, but the flavor is not coming through, and sometimes the flavor as just plain bad. All my cotton has been boiled and rinsed twice.

This morning I replaced the cotton in one of them with 2 twisted strands of the legendary "Peaches & Cream" cotton yarn from Walmart. It's a slightly looser fit, and the results may be a bit better, but still not getting the flavor I'm accustomed to with a good stock silica wick/coil.

Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

 

[magicmyst]

One of the major benefits of vaping is supposed to be that we're not inhaling smoke from burning tobacco. Well, you know, cotton burns, and while it may not be actually flaming inside that red hot coil, even if it's well saturated with juice, some of those fibers have got to be at least slowly burning, and we're inhaling it. Got to wonder if that's a good idea?

 

[magicmyst]

FWIW, I built 3 more tonight using a shorter wrap: 6 wraps on a 1/16' drill bit- makes for about 1.75Ω, and I am going a tad lighter on the cotton. It's a little better, I think. Not getting any bad flavor, but still not getting what I'm used to on a good stock 1.8Ω silica coil. I am pleased with the beautiful coils I'm making, and getting great vapor, but if I'm not getting the flavor, it really doesn't matter. I'm open to any suggestions, but if I can't figure it out, I'm gonna start rebuilding on silica.

 

[Trayce]

The black stuff on the cotton is not burning (unless you let it dry out) but residue heated from the coil stuck to the cotton. VG is made of fats (plant fats) and when they heat up they leave a residue. Same thing on silica.

@magicmyst: I get muted flavor with micro-coils for some reason. Don't know if you made standard coils or micro-coils, but if the latter, try the former and see if the flavor changes. Or if the former try the latter. (Micro-coils are supposed to produce the best flavor and vapor, but that isn't my experience and don't know why.) So FWIW...

 

[magicmyst]

@Trayce- Thanks- I may try a different kind of coil. I guess what I've been building are micros, because the coils are very close together. When you refer to a standard coil, what do you have in mind? Same procedure, but more spacing?

 

[magicmyst]

Micro-coils are supposed to produce the best flavor and vapor, but that isn't my experience and don't know why.

Strange, isn't it? I sure wish I could figure it out.....

 

[Trayce]

@Trayce- Thanks- I may try a different kind of coil. I guess what I've been building are micros, because the coils are very close together. When you refer to a standard coil, what do you have in mind? Same procedure, but more spacing?

Strange, isn't it? I sure wish I could figure it out.....

Yes, I wish I could figure it out too.

And yes again, a micro-coil generally has more wraps (~10-12) and all the wraps must be touching, but not overlapping, or it will cause a hot leg OR a hot spot on the coil. So the micro-coil is generally torched with a lighter and compressed or heated over a gas stove and compressed with tweezers or the like. (I realize you know this but for the sake of clarification for other readers who might not know.) Once the coil retains its shape and there are no spaces between wraps, the micro-coil is ready for business.

A standard coil (again for the sake of others) is usually fewer wraps, commonly ~5-7 and there MUST be space between each wrap. If two coils are touching or overlap this will cause problems. Sometimes stock coils will come with a slightly larger space between wraps in the center of the standard coil. This is to prevent overheating the center and producing a dry hit, since the coil gets hot from the center first. However, cotton wicks a lot better than silica, so I have never bothered leaving a larger center space in my coils. YMMV.

So I was making cotton wick standard coils and getting great results. Then I read about micro-coils and this is supposed to be the equivalent of sub-ohm vaping minus the potential dangers of sub-ohm. While my m-coils produced great vapor, the flavor is totally not there. Very muted indeed. So I went back to standard coils. (Then suddenly ran into the burny grommetty curse out of the blue... but that's another story / topic being discussed elsewhere and has nothing to do with standard vs m-coil and flavor.)

 

[magicmyst]

And yes again, a micro-coil generally has more wraps (~10-12) and all the wraps must be touching, but not overlapping, or it will cause a hot leg OR a hot spot on the coil.

A standard coil (again for the sake of others) is usually fewer wraps, commonly ~5-7 and there MUST be space between each wrap. If two coils are touching or overlap this will cause problems.

OK, now you've got me confused. Why is it OK for micro coils to be touching, and not OK for a standard coil? I get my coils as close as I can, and use a tweezer and butane lighter. They are very close, but I really don't know if they're touching.

 

[Trayce]

Someone else can answer this better than I can. I did read the scientific/technical explanation from a member here a few days ago but cannot remember the the exact words he used. Something about when all the coils are touching it creates a change on the surface of the coil (and can't recall the technical term he used) which is what you want, but if a coil is not touching, it breaks this continuity - and probably makes for uneven resistance.

Anyway, the wire sets when heated (holds it's shape) so the idea is to make a coil, then to compress it while heated so that the coils are all touching and stay that way even when released from the tweezers or pliers.

As far as your coils go, if they're working (clouds of vapor, not burning the grommet) I wouldn't worry about it. However your complaint was flavor, so... I'd try another type of coil, myself.

The standard coil is a different beast because NONE of the wraps are touching. So if two are touching (or more are touching in a haphazard way with space here and touching there), it likely screws up the way the heat travels across the coil because the resistance of the coil is uneven. That would create hot and 'cold' spots. What you want in a coil, regardless of type, is for the heat to start in the center and move outwards in an even fashion. If the coil is UNIFORMLY MADE this will occur, whether that means ALL the wraps are touching or NONE of the wraps are touching.

I have also read that "it's a myth that none of the wraps can or should touch on a standard coil." I am sure these coils work anyway, but they likely don't work (i.e. heat) as evenly as a uniform coil. Hence some people say, "don't worry about it" and others say, "don't let the wraps touch [for the best coil]."

If someone wants to correct me, please do. But that's my understanding to date.

 

[Trayce]

Just want to add that one of the ways to avoid a hot leg is to double the legs up on themselves and twist the strands together. This creates less resistance which means less heat which means less chance of burning the grommet because the legs stay "cooler." So makes sense that if wraps in a standard coil are touching here and there, there is less resistance where they are touching, screwing up the uniformity of the coil.

That probably explains why the m-coil has more wraps but is a lower resistance coil than a standard coil with the same wraps. That is, use 12 wraps for a m-coil and it might come out at 2.4 ohm .... try putting 12 wraps on a standard coil and not only will it NOT fit in your head, but it would be like 4.0 ohms plus!

So this is why people like the m-coil... it's a denser coil with lower ohms so it takes less power to heat it, and is in contact with more wick because there are more wraps, creating more vapor and (arguably) a more evenly heated coil with better performance.

I love everything about them but the lack of flavor. And maybe it's something else I'm doing wrong, I don't know.

 

[magicmyst]

I love everything about them but the lack of flavor.

Thanks for lots of good info, Trayce, but the above says it all, doesn't it? What's to love if the flavor is reduced. I've been working on this for 3 days now, and frustrated (as I'm sure you are too) that I haven't found a solution. I have a couple more things to try, and if they don't work, I'll just rebuild them on silica like the stock coils.

 

[Trayce]

Well the cotton is NOT the problem. Try a standard coil with cotton and see what you think.

 

[Trayce]

Thanks for lots of good info, Trayce, but the above says it all, doesn't it? What's to love if the flavor is reduced. I've been working on this for 3 days now, and frustrated (as I'm sure you are too) that I haven't found a solution. I have a couple more things to try, and if they don't work, I'll just rebuild them on silica like the stock coils.

Well oddly, I found that a mod used to eliminate the burny grommet problem un-muted the flavor! I wanted to use micro-coils b/c they hold up better to re-wicking so wasn't quite ready to throw in the towel on them. Then found this mod (scroll to post #7: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/485319-kangers-new-head-no-burny-grommets.html) for shaving the grommet to get rid of the burning rubber problem, and it not only eliminated that problem but the flavor is no longer muted like it was! It's much stronger now! Maybe you could try the mod and see if you notice the same. It won't hurt even if you aren't having a burny grommet problem.

 

[ScandaLeX]

You should give it a whack sometime, it's quite enjoyable, if you get an RBA, it would give you a lot of practice since you'll be making bigger coils and experimenting with different wicks (my SS wick was a total disaster)...

I've tried so far, SS Wick (no go, didn't have torch and the patience to keep trying the oxidation, even when I didn't get a short, I tasted metal in my mouth, did not like it at all), 2mm Silica, 3mm Silica, and Cotton (the one I made for my RBA was a disaster, didn't know what I was doing)...

I'm eager to try some cotton ropes in the near future, but I think so far, the cotton ball method is great, you can control how thick to make the wick...

I've always been able to taste my juice, but after using the cotton, didn't realize that it actually had stronger flavors... Still can't touch what my RBA does, even with Silica wick, but the RBA is probably making the vape taste better due to higher density of the vape production... I'm going to give cotton wick another try on my next tank refill in my RBA. As for my clearos, I'm gonna do cotton from here on, if I have to use new heads, just gonna chuck the stock coil and silica and salvage the head and fresh silicone gaskets that it comes with...

I'm so glad I'm not alone. My SS wick was worse than disastrous. I tried several times and could never get it right.
Doubt I'll be ready to try again any time soon since I don't like the taste of metal and I'm enjoying cotton anyway.

 

[magicmyst]

Well oddly, I found that a mod used to eliminate the burny grommet problem un-muted the flavor! I wanted to use micro-coils b/c they hold up better to re-wicking so wasn't quite ready to throw in the towel on them. Then found this mod (scroll to post #7: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/485319-kangers-new-head-no-burny-grommets.html) for shaving the grommet to get rid of the burning rubber problem, and it not only eliminated that problem but the flavor is no longer muted like it was! It's much stronger now! Maybe you could try the mod and see if you notice the same. It won't hurt even if you aren't having a burny grommet problem.

That's great. Have you figured out WHY it works? Any theories? I wonder why your flavor is better? I'll try it...

 

[magicmyst]

Well oddly, I found that a mod used to eliminate the burny grommet problem un-muted the flavor! I wanted to use micro-coils b/c they hold up better to re-wicking so wasn't quite ready to throw in the towel on them. Then found this mod (scroll to post #7: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/clearomizers/485319-kangers-new-head-no-burny-grommets.html) for shaving the grommet to get rid of the burning rubber problem, and it not only eliminated that problem but the flavor is no longer muted like it was! It's much stronger now! Maybe you could try the mod and see if you notice the same. It won't hurt even if you aren't having a burny grommet problem.

Not working for me. Installed 2 perfect coils with the surgically altered grommet- NO VOLTAGE!

EDIT: Nevermind- I cut off the wrong end.