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I'm a sinner with questions..

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angelique510

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Heh. I'm actually an independent Baptist. That just means we have more pot-luck meals than you all. ;-)

I go to an independent Baptist church too. You're right - I'm about to go bake some pies for our dinner tomorrow :)

A very brief summary of our beliefs: Sola Christo, Sola Scriptura, and Sola Fide.

~A
 

Southern Gent

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Again the scriptural evidence of God's word is given. At no time in the NT did anyone wait to be baptized. The early Christians felt it necessary and it was immediate. Peter says unquestionably that it "is baptism that does now save us". Any refuting the simple logic is dangerous at best. Don't miss the point that without the remission of sin..one can not be forgiven. Baptism for remission of sin is a commandment of God. Jesus did not say go make disciples by having them recite the sinners prayers. He said go make disciples how? Baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. This is the gospel that was taught by the apostles. Any other gospel/doctrine is just that..another doctrine, another gospel.
 

LisaLisa

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Again the scriptural evidence of God's word is given. At no time in the NT did anyone wait to be baptized. The early Christians felt it necessary and it was immediate. Peter says unquestionably that it "is baptism that does now save us". Any refuting the simple logic is dangerous at best. Don't miss the point that without the remission of sin..one can not be forgiven. Baptism for remission of sin is a commandment of God. Jesus did not say go make disciples by having them recite the sinners prayers. He said go make disciples how? Baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit. This is the gospel that was taught by the apostles. Any other gospel/doctrine is just that..another doctrine, another gospel.

Yes, but I believe it's the symbolism of the baptism, the idea of being washed clean of your sins through the blood of Jesus Christ once you accept Him as your savior that is baptism, symbolic of creating a new person and washing away the old. Not the actual physical going under water thing that matters.
 

Saintscruiser

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The scriptural evidence is not symbolism. Look at Saul/Paul's conversion. Paul was told to get up and be baptized. Why? Why was it so important if it were were symbolism or just something to do? Because he was still lost without it.


SG, I don't buy that for a New York second. sorry to be so blunt. You know I like ya! :) So you're telling me that after I got saved (and I got radically saved) and I wasn't baptized for 6 months, because I thought I was rededicating and if I had died, I would have gone to hell? Whoa Nellie Belle! (I bet no one remembers that but me! :laugh:) I truly believe that Jesus would have told me as we were talking a great deal. Still do. How is the free gift of GRACE tied to a command to do something to get saved. It doesn't. That's the point. So you're saying IF, and I'm walking a respectful line here, Jesus had gotten crucified before He was baptized, He would have gone to hell? Just think about that. He knew who He was before He got baptized. So the millions who got saved at a Billy Graham Crusade got into a car crash before they got home and could get into a church were going to hell? I would be very interested in his or Franklin's answer it you contacted them. Okay, I'm putting my soapbox back under the table. I'm not trying to be so harsh on you, SG. I just don't believe the same way you do. The next thing you might say is I don't have the evidence of the Holy Spirit because I don't speak in tongues. Tongues is not my gift. My gifts are mercy (believe it or not, I have a broken heart for people who are sick), prophecy and exhortation tied. Prophecy used to be first, until I got sick. God kind of re-did my gifts.:)
 

blondeambition3

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I know what it is like to get saved. I know what that Amazing Grace feels like when it envelopes you. It was the most humbling experience of my life, Glory to God!

I couldn't have said that better SC as that was MY experience also.. in a nutshell...

I believe 'all' who 'call upon the NAME of Jesus will be saved' and water baptism is a public proclamation & demonstration of the washing away of the 'old' Man (Dead in Laws & Sin) and the resurrection of the 'new' Man/Creature in Christ. I did it also because I just wanted to 'be' like Jesus & He was baptized. The Holy Spirit has personally imparted (to me anyway and I received this revelation by Faith) that only HE (Jesus) saves... and He saves us regardless of denomination, deeds and/or theology... He SAVES us because HE loves us and we NEEDED a Savior. This is just 'my' humble opinion & I respect the views of everyone who posted previously and can certainly see the point in their theology. That was 'another' reason I was baptized, because I'd rather error on the side of caution than do anything that would keep me out of the perfect will of my precious Jesus. Jesus has also imparted to my Spirit of late that HIS true CHURCH is comprised of People who have a living personal relationship with Him and they're from any & ALL denominations.. and it's the lukewarm spirit that abides in Believers of all/any denominations (Those that are neither HOT nor cold... just polishing the pews so to speak and not 'feeding His Sheep' if you will...) that's hindering the Churches more than anything else.. not the denominations themselves. I hope this made sense because it sure made sense when He was revealing it to me! (lol) He really wants us to walk in HIS Love & HIS light so that we can be light & salt to a dying world and try to put aside the theologies that keep us from doing His perfect will. Nothing is more important than 'feeding' His Sheep is there? Believe me, He's imparted He'll separate the wheat from the chaff, but that's not OUR jobs... Know what I mean? :)

I forgot to add (DUH me!)... Water Baptism is not what SAVED me, Christ & Christ alone did that!.. so no, I don't think you HAVE to be water baptized to be saved... (But I think it's a wonderful thing to do because of the 'symbolism')
 
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TheMathClub

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theres hope for you man, the first step is to talk to Jesus about it. if you haven't talked to him about saving your soul, and having him be the head honcho of your life, there is never a bad time to do that. shoot man, im so imperfect there a picture of me in the dictionary under the word. don't allow others to damn you, only God can do that, and your not off the cliff yet ;) Go easy on your self and do the best you can, after all no one ever worked their way to heaven. your posts suggest that you and i are similar and if God can love me, He can love you too. hang in there. God will show you what you need to know in good time. honest :)
 

LisaLisa

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theres hope for you man, the first step is to talk to Jesus about it. if you haven't talked to him about saving your soul, and having him be the head honcho of your life, there is never a bad time to do that. shoot man, im so imperfect there a picture of me in the dictionary under the word. don't allow others to damn you, only God can do that, and your not off the cliff yet ;) Go easy on your self and do the best you can, after all no one ever worked their way to heaven. your posts suggest that you and i are similar and if God can love me, He can love you too. hang in there. God will show you what you need to know in good time. honest :)

That's so awesome TheMathClub! We are all such a mess, aren't we? God loves us anyway, warts and all! :)
 

Saintscruiser

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SG, you are a very nice, patient, giving man. Yes, I can tell.:) I just don't agree with you. I believe that you believe what you're saying and that is fine. Yes, the Scriptures are strong on baptism. I have been baptized, Praise the Lord of Lords! I respect your opinion and am really looking forward to Bible Study. This will in no way be a problem for me. I admire your tenacity.:) It's not easy to feel like you're swimming upstream when everyone is swimming down stream. Regardless, as a very weird southern expression says, "It's on like a chicken bone." This means, lets get started on Bible Study!!!!! Have we set a day yet? How about Tuesday or Thursday?You will have 2 services on Sunday and one on Wednesday? What is your schedule SG?
 

LisaLisa

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These people were sinners back then too, check out the list below! But God loved them anyway because of their faith :)


Abraham lied.
Sarah laughed at God’s promises.
Moses stuttered.
David’s armor didn’t fit.
John Mark was rejected by Paul.
Timothy had ulcers.
Hosea’s wife was a prostitute.
Amos’ only training was in the school of fig-tree pruning.
Jacob was a liar.
David had an affair.
Solomon was too rich.
Abraham was too old.
David was too young.
Peter was afraid of death.
Lazarus was dead.
John was self-righteous.
Naomi was a widow.
Paul was a murderer.
So was Moses.
So was David.
Jonah ran from God.
Miriam was a gossip.
Gideon and Thomas both doubted.
Jeremiah was depressed and suicidal.
Elijah was burned out.
John the Baptist was a loudmouth.
Martha was a worry-wart.
Mary may have been lazy.
Samson had long hair.
Noah got drunk.
Did I mention Moses had a short fuse?
So did Peter, Paul and lots of folks.

Compiled by Unknown Author
 

lmrasch

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Let me preface the following with how much honor I have for you Southern Gent and the zealous way in which you are imparting the Word of God to those of us on this forum. I can tell you have spent much time, thought and prayer in your endeavor to rightly divide the word for the readers here. I thank you for spurring me on to revisit this subject once again. :)

This is a good discussion, and I think we have run into a snag of different doctrinal beliefs among our believers. However, it is a foundational difference and we must use exceedingly great care in dividing this truth..... a few questions to ponder:

1) Can a person be saved without being baptized? Say it's the very last minute of their life and they recognize their immediate need, so they say Lord I have failed you, please accept me. Is it possible for that person to be saved without water baptism?

2) A person accepts Jesus in their heart, but their church hasn't had a water baptism service yet...it's been a day since they accepted Jesus and then they die in a car accident....Is this person's acceptance of Jesus "acceptable" as righteous because of their faith? OR, because they did not follow with the "works" aspect, is their "faith" and the blood of Jesus discounted as being insufficient?

For some reason I am reminded of what the outward sign was for those that served God and followed the law before Jesus....that sign was by circumcision. But now we are under the circumcision of the heart. When exactly does that circumcision take place? And who exactly is the one who performs that circumcision, us or the Lord?

Are we going back to works here?

I fully agree that baptism is a huge part of obedience, following an instruction. The benefits are immeasurable, I remember my baptism...it was awesome! Standing there realizing that I was outwardly expressing an act that had already happened inwardly (and believe me, the change was instantaneous..the moment I accepted), it strengthened my faith in that I died to sin the instant I believed that the blood of Jesus was sufficient. My baptism took place months after I was saved.

When I try to wrap my heart and mind around to the way that baptism has been portrayed as eqaul to what Jesus did for us it is very hard to swallow, actually painful to read. Is it my works again...are we on the merry-go-round one more time? The law proved how impossible it is for us in the flesh to please God. It is the blood that covers our unrighteousness, not our acts on the beliefs that the blood covers our unrighteousness. There would have been no reason for Jesus to shed his blood if it was as easy as stepping into some water and have a few words spoken over me.

In Galatians 3, Paul dealt severely with those who were going back to the works:

1) You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2) I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3) Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4) Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5) Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6) Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 7) Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8) The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9) So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10) All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11) Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” 12) The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” 13) Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14) He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

(Eph. 2:8-9) “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Eph. 2:8-9)

Are we de-emphasizing the Blood of Christ as an all-sufficient payment for sin, believing that the blood of Jesus is not really sufficient to “cleanse us from all sin”? Instead, believing that salvation must be obtained through both the good work of Christ on the cross, and through the good work of man in baptism. We need to be careful to not hold to this doctrine, believing that Man therefore becomes a “co-redeemer” together with Christ. It is not salvation by the grace of God plus the works of man...

Yes, baptism is a commandment and an act of obedience and I encourage all who believe on his name to do so...... but His blood is more than sufficient to cleanse me from ALL unrighteousness.

“…the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (I John 1:7)

Love of the Father
 
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Saintscruiser

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Jul 24, 2010
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Girl that was awesome!!!! When I was reading it, I was thinking how brilliant you are to have put together such a great list. Well, when I saw that you didn't write this list, I thought "WOW, she is brilliant to have found this and posted it!!!!"

Your gift is bridging peace. I've been wanting to tell you that for awhile. You have an amazing ability that I don't have. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God. Matthew 5:9

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:
 

LisaLisa

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Oct 4, 2009
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Girl that was awesome!!!! When I was reading it, I was thinking how brilliant you are to have put together such a great list. Well, when I saw that you didn't write this list, I thought "WOW, she is brilliant to have found this and posted it!!!!"

Your gift is bridging peace. I've been wanting to tell you that for awhile. You have an amazing ability that I don't have. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called sons of God. Matthew 5:9

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:


Oh, I"m almost rolling on the floor laughing right now!!!!!!! LOL!!!!! You make me smile everyday. Your gift is bringing incredible joy to others. I just adore you! :)
 

Saintscruiser

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 24, 2010
2,598
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Mississippi
Let me preface the following with how much honor I have for you Southern Gent and the zealous way in which you are imparting the Word of God to those of us on this forum. I can tell you have spent much time, thought and prayer in your endeavor to rightly divide the word for the readers here. I thank you for spurring me on to revisit this subject once again. :)

This is a good discussion, and I think we have run into a snag of different doctrinal beliefs among our believers. However, it is a foundational difference and we must use exceedingly great care in dividing this truth..... a few questions to ponder:

1) Can a person be saved without being baptized? Say it's the very last minute of their life and they recognize their immediate need, so they say Lord I have failed you, please accept me. Is it possible for that person to be saved without water baptism?

2) A person accepts Jesus in their heart, but their church hasn't had a water baptism service yet...it's been a day since they accepted Jesus and then they die in a car accident....Is this person's acceptance of Jesus "acceptable" as righteous because of their faith? OR, because they did not follow with the "works" aspect, is their "faith" and the blood of Jesus discounted as being insufficient?

For some reason I am reminded of what the outward sign was for those that served God and followed the law before Jesus....that sign was by circumcision. But now we are under the circumcision of the heart. When exactly does that circumcision take place? And who exactly is the one who performs that circumcision, us or the Lord?

Are we going back to works here?

I fully agree that baptism is a huge part of obedience, following an instruction. The benefits are immeasurable, I remember my baptism...it was awesome! Standing there realizing that I was outwardly expressing an act that had already happened inwardly (and believe me, the change was instantaneous..the moment I accepted), it strengthened my faith in that I died to sin the instant I believed that the blood of Jesus was sufficient. My baptism took place months after I was saved.

When I try to wrap my heart and mind around to the way that baptism has been portrayed as eqaul to what Jesus did for us it is very hard to swallow, actually painful to read. Is it my works again...are we on the merry-go-round one more time? The law proved how impossible it is for us in the flesh to please God. It is the blood that covers our unrighteousness, not our acts on the beliefs that the blood covers our unrighteousness. There would have been no reason for Jesus to shed his blood if it was as easy as stepping into some water and have a few words spoken over me.

In Galatians 3, Paul dealt severely with those who were going back to the works:

1) You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2) I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3) Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4) Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5) Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6) Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” 7) Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8) The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9) So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10) All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” 11) Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” 12) The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” 13) Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.” 14) He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

(Eph. 2:8-9) “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.” (Eph. 2:8-9)

Are we de-emphasizing the Blood of Christ as an all-sufficient payment for sin, believing that the blood of Jesus is not really sufficient to “cleanse us from all sin”? Instead, believing that salvation must be obtained through both the good work of Christ on the cross, and through the good work of man in baptism. We need to be careful to not hold to this doctrine, believing that Man therefore becomes a “co-redeemer” together with Christ. It is not salvation by the grace of God plus the works of man...

Yes, baptism is a commandment and an act of obedience and I encourage all who believe on his name to do so...... but His blood is more than sufficient to cleanse me from ALL unrighteousness.

“…the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” (I John 1:7)

Love of the Father


WOW! Nicely put! If you could see me, you'd see me applauding!
 

lmrasch

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 21, 2010
889
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These people were sinners back then too, check out the list below! But God loved them anyway because of their faith :)


Abraham lied.
Sarah laughed at God’s promises.
Moses stuttered.
David’s armor didn’t fit.
John Mark was rejected by Paul.
Timothy had ulcers.
Hosea’s wife was a prostitute.
Amos’ only training was in the school of fig-tree pruning.
Jacob was a liar.
David had an affair.
Solomon was too rich.
Abraham was too old.
David was too young.
Peter was afraid of death.
Lazarus was dead.
John was self-righteous.
Naomi was a widow.
Paul was a murderer.
So was Moses.
So was David.
Jonah ran from God.
Miriam was a gossip.
Gideon and Thomas both doubted.
Jeremiah was depressed and suicidal.
Elijah was burned out.
John the Baptist was a loudmouth.
Martha was a worry-wart.
Mary may have been lazy.
Samson had long hair.
Noah got drunk.
Did I mention Moses had a short fuse?
So did Peter, Paul and lots of folks.

Compiled by Unknown Author

Hubby and I are laughing....so many we both relate to:oops:...Glad to have a Savior and not living under the law, oi....OUCH!
 
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