Im Confused About Vitamin-E Acetate

[Rossum]

Wasn't there a fungus issue as well?

You mean a fungicide?

Indoor grown weed is often treated with a fungicide that can produce some cyanide compound when heated. There was some speculation that this might also be a cause of the lung injuries. I've been and remain skeptical that this is the case. That fungicide has been in use for much longer, and these lung injury cases are new; their timing coincides well with the introduction of Vitamin E Acetate as a cutting agent.

 

[ScottP]

I don't think that anyone did this deliberately, with the intent to harm users. .... to fool customer into believing the product is uncut,

Intent to harm customers? No. Intent to defraud customers? Absolutely. As you put it they were trying to fool customers into thinking cut product was pure product so the harm resulted from the commission of another crime. Evey last one of the people that cut the product belong in prison.

It's a shame they can't all be tried in Texas, we use Capital punishment liberally around here.

 

[AvaOrchid]

I'm pretty confident that Vitamin E Acetate is considerably more expensive than the PG and VG carriers used in nicotine e-liquids. Thus there is no reason anyone would use it in nicotine e-liquid.

I actually did a search and comparison and in the first search that I pulled I might have the numbers a few cents off because this is for my recollection but vitamin E acetate it was 2oz for $6.99 while The Vg on the same site for 16oz was $4 and some change. So yes there's absolutely no reason for anybody trying to thicken and ejuice to use vitamin E acetate it's way more expensive I couldn't even find a exact comparison with 2 oz to 2 oz because I imagined 2 oz of vegetable glycerin would be literal pocket change. Now I'm unwilling to make a search for THC oil because I just don't want that in my history however I'm going to assume that that is much more expensive than vitamin E acetate so there is a reason for unscrupulous people to add that it is indeed cheaper.

 

[puffon]

Looks like a lot of the black market vape pens were coming from Mexico...no surprise.
UPS employees ran drug trafficking ring for a decade, authorities say

 

[bask]

Don't vape oil of any kind.

Ecig users know for the most part that oils of any type are not safe to vaporize and should be avoided.

I’m pretty sure that, unless unflavored, you’re both vaping essential oils right now.

 

[Don29palms]

I’m pretty sure that, unless unflavored, you’re both vaping essential oils right now.

And you would be wrong.

 

[United States]

You mean a fungicide?

Indoor grown weed is often treated with a fungicide that can produce some cyanide compound when heated. There was some speculation that this might also be a cause of the lung injuries. I've been and remain skeptical that this is the case. That fungicide has been in use for much longer, and these lung injury cases are new; their timing coincides well with the introduction of Vitamin E Acetate as a cutting agent.

No I meant fungus, as in mold……

 

[stols001]

@Rossum I agree with you. Except when you get to "They probably thought it was safe."

From what I have seen cut, with what, I am going to say "Pretty sure they did not care if it was safe or not, everything else "Worked."

I don' believe it was "an honest dealer mistake" the two are really an oxymoron. Maybe they invited a couple buyers to sample the wares, they didn't keel over immediately so they called it good. That's being charitable, but eh.

Anna

 

[gsmit1]

SHOULD a business be insane enough to try it (they aren't) the source of the outbreak would be traced back to that retailer pretty quickly and they'd be closed

This is a great point. The very fact that they couldn't chase down the business source is further evidence that legit businesses weren't it.

 

[440BB]

I’m pretty sure that, unless unflavored, you’re both vaping essential oils right now.

I'll assume that's a joke, as you've been vaping for some time.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

This is a great point. The very fact that they couldn't chase down the business source is further evidence that legit businesses weren't it.

One of the victims of lung illnesses claimed to have sourced his product from a medical dispensary in Texas. I do not know the details of the legalities of medical MJ in Texas, Wiki claims it is legal. Also do not know of any ramifications to said dispensary. Think it was Grimm Green who mentioned in one of vlogs there was a few “legal” dispensaries/retail outlets that did sell product cut with Vit E Acetate. Take that with how much salt you wish.

 

[440BB]

Many Michigan dispensaries have been selling carts that contain it. It spread throughout the industry like wildfire for some time. Greed over safety.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I'll assume that's a joke, as you've been vaping for some time.

Have a look at TFA, Capella (to name a few) spec sheets and you will see oil extracts are used within some of their flavours. The percentage can vary, but extremely low in comparison to the Vit E Acetate that was used in some THC carts.

We also inhale oils from cooking, and there has been pulmonary lung illness related to the culinary industry. Exposure has to be great enough to have an effect. With the Vit E Acetate cases we had extremely high exposure within a very short duration.

 

[brad-man]

Have a look at TFA, Capella (to name a few) spec sheets and you will see oil extracts are used within some of their flavours. The percentage can vary, but extremely low in comparison to the Vit E Acetate that was used in some THC carts.

We also inhale oils from cooking, and there has been pulmonary lung illness related to the culinary industry. Exposure has to be great enough to have an effect. With the Vit E Acetate cases we had extremely high exposure within a very short duration.

The real hazard is to those poor kids working in the concession stands at movie theaters. We all know what ailment that can lead to...

 

[stols001]

Well I took a quick look at Texas MMJ law and oversight. I am linking like this one article more because I find it amusing more than anything. Some people are always complaining.

What is Texas' existing medical marijuana law?

I have not heard of Michigan dispensaries using Vitamin E laced oil, but it's Michigan so the laws f reality don't apply there (oh wait I am thinking of Mass) but still.

Got a link? I'm not sure I believe it yet . If so I hope (and would imagine) said dispensaries are being closed.

And an actual, factual link, not some MMJ user claiming they bought their product on the legit market, and it has been tested for Vitamin E< they have a receipt, etc.

I am rather protective of MMJ dispensaries, my kid was on like 7 different (horrible) meds due to migraines, fibromyalgia and interstitial cystitis (they all run in my family) and MMJ took care of ALL of it. He is super functional. I was one of the first caregiver parents in Pina Co.

it was extremely expensive they required like 5 docs (so it seemed) to assess your kid, then you pay for the kid's license AND yours, etc. And you swear to uphold the laws and tenants of MMJ across the land. Then, you look at your teen child and go "OOF." Then, you lecture it for about a month straight.

Yep.

Anna

 

[Punk In Drublic]

One of the victims of lung illnesses claimed to have sourced his product from a medical dispensary in Texas. I do not know the details of the legalities of medical MJ in Texas, Wiki claims it is legal. Also do not know of any ramifications to said dispensary. Think it was Grimm Green who mentioned in one of vlogs there was a few “legal” dispensaries/retail outlets that did sell product cut with Vit E Acetate. Take that with how much salt you wish.

Correction.

From a different video I saw I made the assumption because the individual stated he purchased “legal” cartridges from dispensaries, that they came from Texas. My error.

Dashvapes video interviewing the individual, seems he was purchasing from numerous places.

 

[Haktuspit]

I actually did a search and comparison and in the first search that I pulled I might have the numbers a few cents off because this is for my recollection but vitamin E acetate it was 2oz for $6.99 while The Vg on the same site for 16oz was $4 and some change. So yes there's absolutely no reason for anybody trying to thicken and Ejuice to use vitamin E acetate it's way more expensive I couldn't even find a exact comparison with 2 oz to 2 oz because I imagined 2 oz of vegetable glycerin would be literal pocket change. Now I'm unwilling to make a search for THC oil because I just don't want that in my history however I'm going to assume that that is much more expensive than vitamin E acetate so there is a reason for unscrupulous people to add that it is indeed cheaper.

No need to do the search. I live in CO and pay about $70 a gram for the good stuff. That's about 1.1 ml.

One of the victims of lung illnesses claimed to have sourced his product from a medical dispensary in Texas. I do not know the details of the legalities of medical MJ in Texas, Wiki claims it is legal. Also do not know of any ramifications to said dispensary. Think it was Grimm Green who mentioned in one of vlogs there was a few “legal” dispensaries/retail outlets that did sell product cut with Vit E Acetate. Take that with how much salt you wish.

Well the good news on this for me is that CO passed legislation in the past couple of months that bans certain additives from THC vapes. I'm not 100% sure but I believe all THC oil is tested in CO.

Colorado marijuana regulators finalizing ban on certain additives in vaping products

 

[englishmick]

You mean a fungicide?

Indoor grown weed is often treated with a fungicide that can produce some cyanide compound when heated. There was some speculation that this might also be a cause of the lung injuries. I've been and remain skeptical that this is the case. That fungicide has been in use for much longer, and these lung injury cases are new; their timing coincides well with the introduction of Vitamin E Acetate as a cutting agent.

The timing as it relates to Acetate is a little hard to understand. It seems to have been around for quite a while before the lung problems started appearing, which suggests it takes time to mess up the lungs. But some of the victims claimed to have only used MJ vapes for a short time. Presumably a lot more people have used it than got sick.

Guess it could be that some manufacturers used very high % of Acetate in some batches. Some users might have had low tolerance to it, or their lungs were in bad shape before they started. Some users might have vaped particularly large amounts of it. Maybe some batches of Acetate were worse than others for some reason. Etc.

If it is tied exclusively to Acetate there's still a lot we don't know.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

The fungicide in question is Myclobutanil which has been in use since the mid 90’s. It does develop hydrogen cyanide when combust, but so does smoking flower that was not treated with the fungicide. All current lung illness was linked to the act of vaping THC carts, not smoking weed. Cigarettes also produce hydrogen cyanide, among a bunch of other toxins.

Myclobutanil is illegal to be used on marijuana grow ops here in Canada, along with a few legalized states. Can’t speak for anywhere else, but Canadian regulations does allow small traces of it for such traces may come from other agricultures run offs where it is legal. Health Canada did issue a recall few years ago on some medical marijuana to where Myclobutanil was used, which did spark some public concern. But they followed up with a statement:

When the cannabis plant is combusted, a number of compounds are produced, including very low amounts of hydrogen cyanide. Health Canada's analysis of the recalled cannabis products show that the trace levels of myclobutanil that were present would have produced a negligible amount of additional hydrogen cyanide upon combustion, in comparison to the levels already produced by marijuana alone. Specifically, the level of cyanide from the burning of myclobutanil found on the cannabis samples is more than 1000 times less than the cyanide in cannabis smoke alone, and is 500 times below the acceptable level established by the U.S. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. As such, the risk of serious adverse health consequences resulting from the inhalation of combusted myclobutanil in the recalled cannabis products was determined by Health Canada to be low.

Clarification from Health Canada on myclobutanil and cannabis - Canada.ca

The story NBC aired, originally had the CannSafe representative state that even the legally acquired THC carts had traces of pesticide/fungicides, but have since edited their video to remove this comment.

 

[StormFinch]

The timing as it relates to Acetate is a little hard to understand. It seems to have been around for quite a while before the lung problems started appearing, which suggests it takes time to mess up the lungs...

(Snipped for brevity)

Here's the whole enchilada as explained by Leafly, who have been reporting on this since the very beginning. I believe the major uptick in vit. E acetate also coincided with California's crackdown on growers. If there was less MJ to go around, it would explain the push toward thinning and then cutting what they had to go farther.
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