I have used AW IMR's without incident in an unprotected mod, stacking two 14500's into a home-brewed vv box. Never had an issue with the AW's. I did have three separate issues with the trustfire protected cells. The issue with protected batts in the gripper is going to be the safety cut-off if you try to pull too much current, the safety circuit will disable the battery (hopefully). IMR's are recommended for a higher discharge rate. In short, many people have used AW and other IMR batteries without issue for a long time now. YMMV, of course. Just use some common sense, ask questions if you aren't sure, and above all, read as much as you can.
IMR vs. Protected Li-ion
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For the record Cool Breeze, the gripper does have over current protection. Not that I've tested it. I have had problems in some mods with Trustfire ICRs popping their protection circuits where IMRs go strong. I can't say whether a better ICR like an AW would do the same thing.
My APV is 3.7V regulated using a single coil 2.0 LR carto most of the time. That's a 6.8 watt set-up. I run 8.0 watts with a 1.7 ohm occasionally. This is well within the performance range for a protected ICR 14650 so that's what I use. If I could use the higher drain capability of IMR I'd be using those. For me, the higher battery capacity of ICR over IMR is a plus. To sweeten the deal I can get good protected Trustfire Blue 14650 ICRs cheap, like $32 for a set of eight. My current set of five ICRs lasted me nearly a year. I should be getting the eight replacements later this week.
Not really a "3.7V regulated", single cell PV will have to be boosted. Boosters put a higher demand on cells, the 10-15% efficiency loss for one, chews up some current. You could never use a standard 14650 for more than a few minutes in a ProVari, LT or any of the one cell China PVs like the new Gripper or with a Kick set at 6.8W .
How do you figure that an E-Power 14650 is boosted? The no-load output at the 510 connector is 3.7V when battery voltage is from 3.7 to 4.2V. When battery voltage is below 3.7V the device output voltage (no load) is the same as battery voltage.
I did not claim that the 14650 ICR was a good choice for "a ProVari, LT or any of the one cell China PVs like the new Gripper or with a Kick set at 6.8W".
Now, I've never tried metering the E-Power 14650 output under load. Nor have I read/viewed any results from anyone who did. I've got to make a connector to test this. Could be that voltage under load is below 3.7V and I'm not getting the 6.8W at 2.0 ohms I think I am.
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I did what I said I'd do and ran a project on the workbench this evening. I need to see things on the bench before it gets real for me.
I got hold of a female 510 connector, the soldering irons, wire, flux, handy hands, test leads and DMM and made up a connector that would allow me to measure E-Power 14650 voltage under load.
I didn't understand what you meant by "Not really 3.7V regulated." Now I do.
The E-Power 14650 is regulated to 3.7V to a degree. But that regulation is evident under no load, not under load.
With 2.0 ohm load I found the output voltage to be significantly less than 3.7V and the output varied with the charge on the battery. I think that you and I have the same definition of "regulated voltage." That should mean voltage is regulated to a set point under a given load.
Maybe my ICR batteries have something to do with this. They have 30-40 charge cycles on them and I noticed the charge capacity is falling off a little. That's why I have a new set on order. However, I suspect the electronics on the E-Power 14650 are the real culprit. I'll test again with the new set of protected ICRs to make sure.
I may try a couple of IMR 14650s in the next week or so just for the heck of it.
I've been vaping for almost a year and have been cigarette-free for four months now. Maybe it's time to upgrade to a Provari and keep the E-Powers for back up and rugged duty use. I can afford it. The problem is I like the form factor of the E-Power 14650 (it's pocket friendly) and the the long lasting 1050 mAh battery with LR. Time to do some looking around, I guess.
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As you have come to find out, no battery/batteries without a feedback loop will put out the regulated voltage as dialed in (set point). They all sag.
That being said, the eGo C batts put out 3.3V loaded, whilst their former counterparts put out 3.2-3.3 unloaded which resulted in a loaded voltage below 3.2V
When it comes down to ICRs and IMRs, in lower capacity cells you should indeed invest in IMRs they don't sag as much as ICRs under load. OTOH when talking larger cells in the 17/18mm and higher by all means go with he batterie's Ah capacity as it has more than enough to meet our vaping needs.
When vaping a buck/boost system IMRs all the way because we are actually torturing the battery for the lack of a better word.
Furthermore the battery's onboard PCB often interferes with the electronics of the device (protection)
That being said, the eGo C batts put out 3.3V loaded, whilst their former counterparts put out 3.2-3.3 unloaded which resulted in a loaded voltage below 3.2V
When it comes down to ICRs and IMRs, in lower capacity cells you should indeed invest in IMRs they don't sag as much as ICRs under load. OTOH when talking larger cells in the 17/18mm and higher by all means go with he batterie's Ah capacity as it has more than enough to meet our vaping needs.
When vaping a buck/boost system IMRs all the way because we are actually torturing the battery for the lack of a better word.
Furthermore the battery's onboard PCB often interferes with the electronics of the device (protection)
As you have come to find out, no battery/batteries without a feedback loop will put out the regulated voltage as dialed in (set point). They all sag.
That being said, the eGo C batts put out 3.3V loaded, whilst their former counterparts put out 3.2-3.3 unloaded which resulted in a loaded voltage below 3.2V
When it comes down to ICRs and IMRs, in lower capacity cells you should indeed invest in IMRs they don't sag as much as ICRs under load. OTOH when talking larger cells in the 17/18mm and higher by all means go with he batterie's Ah capacity as it has more than enough to meet our vaping needs.
When vaping a buck/boost system IMRs all the way because we are actually torturing the battery for the lack of a better word.
My roommate is looking for a 510 regulated (would have preferred 3.6v but could handle 3.3 loaded), ideally auto but manual would be OK. We'll soon be making 3.6v and 4.8v nimh mods. But until we have time for that, I can't wrap my head around "what is an eGo C." It looks like its sales points are all around rebuildability or something. Is it 510+ego like a Twist?
I have about 30 different batteries, mostly 18650s. I have some from China, ebay, AW IMR's, Generic IMR's, Generic ICR's, etc. I couldnt tell you which battery is in my mod by pushing the button. This shows me they are all the same to me in terms of performance. In fact, the "fake" Ultrafire batteries from China and Ebay have lasted me the longest - over 8 months now without a single issue.
Honestly if its a protected ICR or an IMR thats on sale, I buy them. I can get IMR's now for 6.99 every day of the week from Madvapes. I dont know who the authority on batteries but if you come to my blog Ill point you to places you can get batteries that work, that are reliable for 1/4 of the cost most vapers pay. AW IMR's are nice, i own them some, but in terms of performance over other IMR's I see no justification for the price increase.
Honestly if its a protected ICR or an IMR thats on sale, I buy them. I can get IMR's now for 6.99 every day of the week from Madvapes. I dont know who the authority on batteries but if you come to my blog Ill point you to places you can get batteries that work, that are reliable for 1/4 of the cost most vapers pay. AW IMR's are nice, i own them some, but in terms of performance over other IMR's I see no justification for the price increase.
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Could the batt / engineer experts help me with a simple question?
I have a mechanical bottom feeder, no electronics.
I'm about to put in an order at RTD and finally get a decent charger and batts.
I'm getting the Xtar WP2 II charger.
The batts I"m using now, which I don't want to use anymore (flaky, getting hot on cheapo charger before fully charged, etc.) are Protected Li-ON's, 8650 3.7V 2200mAh
I do not stack batteries. Using them single in 3.7 device. I seldom even use LR attys or cartos.....like around 2.2.....since I don't like a hot vape.
If I get AW IMRs, do I really need 2000mAh, or can I just use 1600mAh? Do I even NEED IMRs?
Also, wanted to get a meter......are there any there that would be most useful just to test batts, attys, cartos? I'm NOT very engineer math oriented LOL
I have a mechanical bottom feeder, no electronics.
I'm about to put in an order at RTD and finally get a decent charger and batts.
I'm getting the Xtar WP2 II charger.
The batts I"m using now, which I don't want to use anymore (flaky, getting hot on cheapo charger before fully charged, etc.) are Protected Li-ON's, 8650 3.7V 2200mAh
I do not stack batteries. Using them single in 3.7 device. I seldom even use LR attys or cartos.....like around 2.2.....since I don't like a hot vape.
If I get AW IMRs, do I really need 2000mAh, or can I just use 1600mAh? Do I even NEED IMRs?
Also, wanted to get a meter......are there any there that would be most useful just to test batts, attys, cartos? I'm NOT very engineer math oriented LOL
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For 3.7v mods, I really like the Sanyo 2600 cells. They have a very flat discharge which means you will get more consistent voltage for longer time. I think Intl-Outdoor drop ships from china, but its a hell of a deal. If you are set on ordering from RTDVAPOR, then the AW 2600mah would be next best, but more expensive. The IMR's aren't needed for a 3.7v mod, but they are cheaper. The IMR 2000mah will do just fine, but wont run as long between charges compared to the other 2 I mentioned.
2 PCS Sanyo UR18650FM 2600mAh Protected Battery [Sanyo UR18650FM] - $17.88 : Led Flashlight-International Outdoor Store
2 PCS Sanyo UR18650FM 2600mAh Protected Battery [Sanyo UR18650FM] - $17.88 : Led Flashlight-International Outdoor Store
Those sanyo's look good. It's just that I have to put in order for several other things so I will actually save by not paying shiping at more than once place. Thank you for your help, Rader!
Why are protecteds more expensive than IMRs? I would have thought the other way around.
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I'm not the One to answer this because I'm not an Expert.
But from what you have said, it doesn't sound like you are pulling a lot of amps with your Setup. So it doesn't sound like you need IMR Batteries.
I know that AW makes "IC" batteries which sound like they would be fine for your setup. I buy AW batteries because I haven't heard many bad things about them.
About the only Bad thing I have have heard is that some say they are Over Priced.
But when I look at what other Batteries cost, it seems that the AW Batteries are about 2 Bucks more. I can handle $2 so I just buy them.
That's kinda where I'm at today, Zoi.
I usually vape a 2.2ohm atty on a 3.7 bottom feeder. Once in a while throw a 1.8ohm device on it. So not sure I reallly need IMRs.
Guess it comes down to an IMR with a fuse, or a Protected without. Either way, it's coming out the same amount.
I guess since I"m about to place a big order, it's become a little agonizing for me to decide LOL I'm kinda "overly" safety conscious, but that's just how I am.....I just don't want to buy a year's worth of the wrong batts.
When I go here....
Ohm's Law Calculator
... and plug in 3.7 volts and 2.2 ohms, I get 1.68 amps.
Then I look at the specs for a AW 18650 IC 2600mAh Battery and it says that the Max Discharge Rate is 5.2 amps.
AW IC 18650 2600 mAh Power Batteries
So since the Max Discharge Rate is Less than the Amps your Drawing by a Significant amount, I deduce that a AW 18650 IC 2600mAh Battery should work fine for your setup. In this case, an IMR doesn't seem to be needed.
Someone else should Double check All of this though. Like I said, I'm not a Battery Expert.
oh thank you so much. This helps me! I like to vape at about 6 watts, so i'm doing that, and yes, you're right, I 'm way below the max discharge rate!
Thank you again. I need to keep that little chart handy!
So you quote a T-Shirt printer who saw the word manganese in a press release, then declared the Panasonics IMRs, then went on to post boiler plate from actual IMRs? Panasonic no where ever calls them IMRs, The Panasonics are not LiMn2O4 chemistry. So the short correct answer is NO, they are not IMRs. And your statement "hold a charge longer than my higher mah rated protected lion batteries" means you have bought crap Li-Ions.
Let's look at SuperTs 2.5A drain test.
Note where it hit's 3.3V, ~ 1760mAh
Here's the often maligned TrustFire 3000mAh cell at a 3A test (20% more).
Now look where it hit's 3.3V, while at a higher drain, ~ 2125maH.
zoidman said:
The AW2600 are fine cells, but here's another that's about 1/2 the price.
The dots are on the 2A trace (about a 1.8Ω atty) at 3.4 and then 3.2V. I've never seen such similar tests. But note the Tenergy does a tad better at borh voltages, There is a good chance that AW is just a re-wrapped Tenergy.
Here is my thinking when I go to buy a Battery.
I know that there are Batteries that Cost Less than the AW Brand. Some are Good and Some are Not so go. And I know that there are Tons of Cheap Knock-Offs pouring in from China by the Boat Load.
If it comes down to a Battery costing within the Price of a Pack of Cigarettes to the AW brand, I just Splurge and buy the AW brand. And I buy the Battery from someone who I feel is going to sell me a Real AW Battery.
I look at Super T's Prices, who has a Great Reputation as a seller, and think maybe I could try to save a Few Bucks buying some other Brand from Some Other Seller or I could just buy an AW which I have not heard anything bad about.
Super T Manufacturing, Innovative manufacturer of electronic cigarette products.
Paying 5 Buck more or a Battery that will use Hopefully for more than a Year doesn't Upset me. $5 over 365 comes down to 1.37 cents per Day. That's about 10 Cents per week. Less than the cost of the Milk I throw out because it has gone bad.
Check what happens when an IMR is short circuited here: Callies Kustoms IMR Battery and AW short circuit observations - YouTube
Compared to Panasonic Li-Ion here:Callies Kustoms 3100mAh Panasonic 18650 batteries on sale now! - YouTube
P anasonic NCR batteries have a built in PTC device and heat reducing layer which protect against short circuit and thermal build up . I would say Panasonic NCR are safer than IMR.
You will also notice in the first video that the Panasonic CGR18650CH has less thermal build up than the AW IMR.
Compared to Panasonic Li-Ion here:Callies Kustoms 3100mAh Panasonic 18650 batteries on sale now! - YouTube
P anasonic NCR batteries have a built in PTC device and heat reducing layer which protect against short circuit and thermal build up . I would say Panasonic NCR are safer than IMR.
You will also notice in the first video that the Panasonic CGR18650CH has less thermal build up than the AW IMR.
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