IMR vs. Protected Li-ion

[Rader2146]

Charging is the same for both types (or should I say, all three types ). Unless otherwise stated, you should stay below .7C charge rate which happens to be what Panasonic lists as the max for this battery; 1.5a max.

If you dont mind spending a little more, I recommend the SP2 just for the refinements over the WP2. If you dont want to spend a little extra, the WP2 is far from cheap quality, but still at a cheap price. I own a WP2 and it does a great job and carries a great reputation.

 

[L7D4N]

Post #21 shows a snippet of their press release on the new battery that Orbtronic posted on the battery description. I can't find a link to the press release from Panasonic concerning it, but I'm still digging. I saw it in candlepowerforums a few months ago, but no such luck as of yet.

 

[L7D4N]

Here's the PSS press release, still digging for the other:

http://www.industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf2/ACI4000/ACI4000CE5.pdf

 

[Berylanna]

Also, Orbtronic lists the following for the CGR18650CH:

CGR18650CH Panasonic 18650 Li-Mn-Li-ion CGR18650CH High Drain 10A Rechargeable IMR Hybrid Battery Cell

======================
About New Panasonic PSS technology- Solid Solution technology:

How to achieve an ideal balance between high capacity, and high safety in one Lithium based 18650 battery cell?

Panasonic has developed a new Solid Solution technology by mixing the high capacity characteristics of the Li-ion chemistry [cobalt based] cells, and high safety of the LiMn2O4 [manganese based] Lithium based batteries.
======================

I agree with Rader that these are not IMR's by chemistry, but that's why I referred to them as a "Hybrid". I'm not a chemist, so I cannot comment on the validity of safety regarding these, but I've never had one go thermal.

So, does anybody know whether a chemist can do some math and figure out the safety of the Panasonics, or do we have to wait a few years and see, or what? It sounds like their other characteristics (including fitting into devices!) are quite desirable.

 

[Cool_Breeze]

Charging is the same for both types (or should I say, all three types ). Unless otherwise stated, you should stay below .7C charge rate which happens to be what Panasonic lists as the max for this battery; 1.5a max.

I've seen a reference or two... What is "C?"

 

[Rader2146]

Sorry... C=Capacity. In this case, if the battery capacity is 1000mAh the it shouldn't be charged with more than 700mA.

Other references are to maximum safe discharge current. If a 1000mAh cell is rated for a 2C max discharge (most ICR cells are 2C or less) then the most that the cell can deliver without increased risk of damage to the cell is 2amps. This is one of the reasons why protected ICR 14500 batteries don't usually fare to well with LR coils.

 

[RickMc]

C is the ratio of discharge (amps) to capacity (amp-hours). If you're pulling 1.3 amps on a 650mah (.65 amp-hour) battery, you're discharging at 2C. 1.95 amps would be 3C, etc. A 10 amp rated battery with a capacity of 2000mah is rated at 5C. Higher C rating means the battery is capable of handling a higher amperage draw.

Hope this helps. Btw, I never saw the .7C charging limit recommendation before. That IS helpful, thanks!

 

[DarkAynjil]

C is the ratio of discharge (amps) to capacity (amp-hours). If you're pulling 1.3 amps on a 650mah (.65 amp-hour) battery, you're discharging at 2C. 1.95 amps would be 3C, etc. A 10 amp rated battery with a capacity of 2000mah is rated at 5C. Higher C rating means the battery is capable of handling a higher amperage draw.

Hope this helps. Btw, I never saw the .7C charging limit recommendation before. That IS helpful, thanks!

Excellent explanation. So few people understand the C rating...

 

[Pooladdict247]

After I watched this video I decided I will no longer be buying AWs. Dont get me wrong both batteries will get pretty hot if shorted but IMO I rather take my chances with the battery that only hits 185º vs 235º, Im also sure that my pocket and leg will appreciate it more if it ever did happen. Besides who do you think spends more money on research and development panasonic or a guy named andy wang? Japan over china any day of the week, they have better hair doos also

 

[ninfreak]

pooladdict.... aw are panasonic cells, they are just the highest grade that panasonic offers. each battery has different grades a, b, c, etc. as i have stated before. when you buy aw you are getting the top grade...when you buy straight panasonic batteries from some vendor, you may not have a clue what grade you are getting or a knockoff panasonic which the world is filled with.

 

[txtumbleweed]

They do? Post a link.



And neither is the T-Shirt printer you linked to who saw the word manganese in a press release and declared it a LiMn2O4 cell, which it is not.

I think Callie is a pretty reputable battery distributer. I will leave this thread for you battery engineers to argue about how smart you are. The main thing that I was expressing is they are conisdered IMR's whether technically they are or not I don't know. They do work in the Gripper and the protected Li-on batteries do not!!

 

[L7D4N]

Yeah, I'm not sure why every battery thread made always turns to hostility and arguing, but I was trying to help out Cool_Breeze.

I only use AW IMR's due to proven reliability. The CGR18650CH/CG are relatively new, but I do use them and they seem like good quality batteries, they just take longer to charge, I assume that's due to internal resistance.

Just read up on Battery University so you can make an informed decision on which battery, charger, and charging habits you should follow. With the wealth of options and knowledge you have at your disposal, after your research, buy what suits you, your vaping habits, and what charging habits you'll follow.

 

[Switched]

After I watched this video I decided I will no longer be buying AWs. Dont get me wrong both batteries will get pretty hot if shorted but IMO I rather take my chances with the battery that only hits 185º vs 235º, Im also sure that my pocket and leg will appreciate it more if it ever did happen. Besides who do you think spends more money on research and development panasonic or a guy named andy wang? Japan over china any day of the week, they have better hair doos also

Ummm, speaking from the lips of experts

 

[Berylanna]

Yeah, I'm not sure why every battery thread made always turns to hostility and arguing, but I was trying to help out Cool_Breeze.

I only use AW IMR's due to proven reliability. The CGR18650CH/CG are relatively new, but I do use them and they seem like good quality batteries, they just take longer to charge, I assume that's due to internal resistance.

Just read up on Battery University so you can make an informed decision on which battery, charger, and charging habits you should follow. With the wealth of options and knowledge you have at your disposal, after your research, buy what suits you, your vaping habits, and what charging habits you'll follow.

Well, I learned a lot. Battery University was too much for me a couple of weeks ago, but now at least I'll have some search terms from this thread to play with.

 

[Pooladdict247]

pooladdict.... aw are panasonic cells, they are just the highest grade that panasonic offers. each battery has different grades a, b, c, etc. as i have stated before. when you buy aw you are getting the top grade...when you buy straight panasonic batteries from some vendor, you may not have a clue what grade you are getting or a knockoff panasonic which the world is filled with.

Sorry Im a numbers guy, I just would assume a battery that only hits 185º vs 235º with the same performance would be safer. And the new pannys are 'hybrids' and are marked made in japan. the aw just has a sticker and no origin with less mah. Ive also heard of knockoff aws floating around too. Ive only been vaping for 8 months so im nowhere near as experienced as you guys. I havent had a problem with either brand battery ever. Just figured Id throw a video up of a comparison of the two, sorry if ive offended you aw fans...
Im not bashing aws, I have 2 myself, just stating that I prefer a battery thats well marked and wont melt down my pv and leg if it ever decides to go. I go to my corner now

 

[Cool_Breeze]

There are protected, flat top 18650 Li-Ion batteries that are essentially 65 mm long.

I don't know what type of contact is needed for the Smoktech Gripper.

Perhaps someone that has one can speak to that.

 

[zoiDman]

Yeah, I'm not sure why every battery thread made always turns to hostility and arguing ...

I've noticed this Also.

LOL

 

[txtumbleweed]

There are protected, flat top 18650 Li-Ion batteries that are essentially 65 mm long.

I don't know what type of contact is needed for the Smoktech Gripper.

Perhaps someone that has one can speak to that.

Flat top and button top both work fine in a gripper.

 

[Rader2146]

For what it's worth, that video was hardly a fair fight, but it is a pretty good marketing ploy if you are trying to sell Panasonics with your sticker on them.

The AW IMR 1600 is a 15C battery capable of safely delivering 24A. The Panasonic...10A. These are just the recommended safe discharge currents. In a short, they will deliver more current. With a large difference in current, there will be a large difference in watts, and most of us know by now that more watts means more heat. Kinda rigged from the start.

Key takeaways from the video:
• Apples to Oranges.
• Don't short your batteries, they get hot.
• If you are concerned about a short, use a mod with short circuit protection or a 2cents for safety fuse.
• Neither battery became volatile in any way. BIG bonus points for both.
• You can tell a lot about a man by the tools he uses. (poultry sheers?!?)(ok, you're right, that has little to do with batteries)

In the end, the only thing I got out of that video, besides a chuckle, was confirmation that both batteries are highly resilient to abuse.

 

[L7D4N]

I didn't even consider the max discharge rate between the two, that's a very good point Rader.

I would also like to point out if someone doesn't want to throw away money on a one-timer mod fuse, they finally came out with a resettable one (my biggest complaint about the 2cent fuse, PTC resettables are $0.32) that COV now sells for $15:

Holocron Labs ShortStop

I would recommend these for people weary of using IMR's, for applications using less than 5amps.