Incredibly bad chinese products..

[trog100]

two failed e-cig cigarillo battery chargers.. failed the first day of usage.. e -cig dont make them simply buy them in from the people that do..

replacement for failed e-cig chargers from deal extreme.. not cheap by chineses standards.. a soshine multi one.. 23 dollars..

failed a few seconds after being plugged in...

two more while waiting for deal extreme to send me a new soshine one..

note i order two of the buggers to make sure.. he he.. one failed after a days usage the other never worked from the word go.. the lights come on but nothing gets put into the battery..

out of eight AAA chinese lithium 10430 batteries i have three good ones left.. the rest show the correct voltage when under no load but go flat after two minutes use.. they will not pass any current.. this explains the trouble i was having getting my new replacement cigarillos to work..

the whole sorry saga defies logic..

the type of charger (screw in one) that comes with a mini and classic cig seems okay.. they show no problems.. as for the rest.. hmmm.. they really do defy logic..

checking these batteries isnt easy without the right equipment.. the failure rate is so high that trying several others isnt good enough.. they are all likely to be as bad.. he he he

its a bloody good job i bought eight to start with..

trog

ps.. my current home modded one that works.. a mini charger with fly lead added..

 

[karenwest1961]

Trog.....hate to say I told you so...

Oh never mind.

 

[masterslave]

I will though LoL
Told ya so...... :twisted:
as looking under the bottom (Made in CHINA) Crap

Sorry bro..

 

[trog100]

tell me where i can buy some made in the UK u silly told u so people and i will do..

give me credit for a modicum of sense and stop being so bloody insulting..

the damn stuff is made in china.. nowhere else..

in fact every damn thing is made in china... the joke is its all guaranteed as well..

i want a lithium battery charger.. its china.. i want lithium batteries its china..

even nerdies nearly catch fire janty usb one.. china.. guaranteed to fail after next to no use if the chinese ones i have are anything to go by..

i dont buy from china if there is one available down the bloody road.. sadly there isnt..

what puzzles me is the absurd failure rate for such simple devices.. i think the problem with little AAA batteries is the fact they are little AAA batteries being ask to do a task they aint up to..

i just did a test on one i thought was good.. using a 12 volt 21 watt car stop light bub.. it draws at 4 volts roughly the same current as an e cigarette atomizer coil .8 of an amp.. just off the charger reading 4.2 volts fully charged..

placed under load it lasted less then one minute before going flat or at least flat enough not to power an atomizer coil.. placed back in the charger it took 15 minutes to reach green and its fully charged switch off point of 4.2 volts.. in short its knackered.. the two i think are still alive are 75% knackered.. the other seven wont even produce a glimmer on the test bulb

i will add the larger 960 mah pipe style batteries dont die after a couple of charge disharge cycles its the small 350 mah AAA type that are having major problems.. the ones used to power cigars..

now if u i"told u so" people have enough experience as regards using these things and know where i can buy some that might last a little longer i would be happy to here from u.. if not the silly smug comments aint useful..
in fact i have some simple questions to ask janty.. ruyan.. njoy.. gamucci or any other of the more expensive e cigarette sellers.. i know they read this place..

the questions are very simple..

if i use one of your products.. how many actual hours smoking use is the atomizer rated for before failure or significant performance drop off occurs..

how many hours actual smoking use is the pressure switch rated for before failure occurs..

how many hours battery use is the battery rated for before significant loss of capacity occurs..

the questions are simple.. i will keep asking them until i get some valid answers..

how long the guarantee is i do not wish to know.. simple how long the products main components will last.. in actual hours usage figures..

any reputable seller should be able to answer such simple questions..

i have ask e-cig such questions in their own forum..

if they go wrong send them back for us to look at will not be considered a valid answer..

i am beginning to think this entire e smoking thing is being sold on a lie.. a guarantee that by far exceeds the known life of the main components of the product.. product failure and product returns are expected and allowed for in the initial cost.. if this is the case i think the people that are buying these products should be told the truth..

trog

 

[TropicalBob]

Let me chime in a moment with a remark (as I recall) that Perfectionist made on this forum awhile ago: If this had been the I-Cig from Apple instead of the E-Cig from China, we'd have worldwide acceptance of a quality product by now. As it stands today, the e-smoking infant might die long before reaching maturity, killed by shoddy products and grossly inflated profit margins.

I advised my tobacco shop chain owner NOT to sell e-smoking products just yet. The failure rate is unacceptably high. No brick-and-mortar merchant wants the hassle of returned atomizers and batteries that go dead within 24 hours. A lot of us -- Trog, for sure -- have been sold junk. In my case, I was SHORTED by E-Cig for a 50ml bottle -- and "it's not our fault" isn't any kind of acceptable answer when a customer has Customs paperwork to show the opposite.

Seems like half the forum members here who are e-smoking keep real cigarettes on hand "just in case." The whole sorry situation is a complete turnoff for those considering e-smoking, and the manufacturers had better get their act together before many more governments step in. E-smoking is going to need popular demand or it's not going to survive what lies ahead. I, too, am sick of the cost-cutting, potentially unsafe Chinese products. I would relish a quality alternative.

 

[masterslave]

Trog,
"tell me where i can buy some made in the UK u silly told u so people and i will do..

give me credit for a modicum of sense and stop being so bloody insulting.. "

Relax a little did you or did you not see LOL "lifes to short man"

"in fact every damn thing is made in china... the joke is its all guaranteed as well.. "

Cheap labor in fact still have the sweat shops and child labor.. no regulations...


"the questions are very simple..
if i use one of your products.. how many actual hours smoking use is the atomizer rated for before failure or significant performance drop off occurs..
how many hours actual smoking use is the pressure switch rated for before failure occurs..
how many hours battery use is the battery rated for before significant loss of capacity occurs..
the questions are simple.. i will keep asking them until i get some valid answers..
how long the guarantee is i do not wish to know.. simple how long the products main components will last.. in actual hours usage figures..
any reputable seller should be able to answer such simple questions..
i have ask e-cig such questions in their own forum..
if they go wrong send them back for us to look at will not be considered a valid answer.."

Good ??? can you say regulation or FDA or EPA it's all about the money


The first I seen esmoken was at a casino in Colorado NJOY in a E-cig machine WOW this could be the solvent I have been searching for.. I have smoked for 28 years and I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired...


I still say from one man to another or woman if you don't have integrity even if your from a different country Well I think you get my drift

 

[trog100]

i did masterslave.. it was karen who irritated me.. i think we irritate each other..

she was being snide.. u were simple making a joke.. no probs..

but i am serious about the expected life of these things.. i have no problem with how some of them work i simple want to know how long before failure on atomizers.. switches and batteries..

i dont really care how long they last.. i simply want to know the figures.. i am annoyed by the buy the right brand and u wont get the problems nonsense..

i think they all have problems of atomizer/switch life i want to know what it is expected to be.. i think they know and if they dont know they should know..

if an atomizers lasts a month.. fair enough but the brand believers are beginning to annoy me.. he he he

if an expensive atomizer lasts longer lets have some proof.. a friendly smile and we will send a replacement in three weeks seem to satisfy most people so far.. it dosnt me..

to be honest i think these things are/were designed for occasional use.. social smoking.. occasional use types wont have any problems..

but the likes of me.. lets say three carts per day.. to use their own figures 900 puffs per day.. 900 switch activations per day.. 900 hot cold cycles for the little heater coil.. in ten days thats 9000 operations.. i dont expect these things to last the likes of me long.. i simple want to know how long.. how many puffs per atomizer/switch as well as how many puffs per cartridge..

so far the devices are being consumed at greater rate then the liquid. :mrgreen:

trog

 

[leaford]

tell me where i can buy some made in the UK u silly told u so people and i will do..

Oh AMEN, brother. Never have we been SO on the same page. But the only way it could happen, either in the UK or the US, would be for a premium brand. Everything fom the construction of the factory, to the manufacturing machines, to the labor for ongoing manufacturing would necessarily cost more. I'd spend the extra money, but only if it truly produced a better product.

how many actual hours smoking use is the atomizer rated for before failure or significant performance drop off occurs..

how many hours actual smoking use is the pressure switch rated for before failure occurs..

how many hours battery use is the battery rated for before significant loss of capacity occurs..

the questions are simple.. i will keep asking them until i get some valid answers..

These are some DAMN good questions. I will let your earlier snarky janty/fire comments pass. These are exactly the things we should all be asking. My feeling is that if every manufacturer answered, the answers would shut you up about the difference between e-cig.com and Janty or Njoy. Sorry, i guess I didn't let your snarky comments pass after all.

Nevertheless, those are good questions, and that's exactly what I mean when I say we need consumer reports style testing on these things. I would add things like quantifying the amount of smoke produced.

i have ask e-cig such questions in their own forum..

OK. Good luck with that. I'm just saying they don't have a great track record for being responsive.

if they go wrong send them back for us to look at will not be considered a valid answer..

Nor should it, in this context.

i am beginning to think this entire e smoking thing is being sold on a lie.. a guarantee that by far exceeds the known life of the main components of the product.. product failure and product returns are expected and allowed for in the initial cost.. if this is the case i think the people that are buying these products should be told the truth.. trog

But now you've kinda jumped the tracks. There is a high failure rate in this technology to be sure. We wouldn't put up with this in our cell phones, for example. But 20 years ago cell phones were more buggy than this, and people lined up, waiting for months on lists, to get them. We are early adopters, and this is the price we pay.

That said, not all failure rates are equally high. Some one else said it before. One brand might fail one time in 12, while another is one in four. That's no consolation when you're the one. But I'd still rather buy the 1 in 12 than the 1 in 4.

But ultimatly, this kind of failure is a different issue than the kind of endurance issues you were talking about before. It's something that no other industry has to rate and post. It'd be nice, but not realistic to expect. We have to rely on reviews and word of mouth. Over time we can tell each other which ones last and which don't. I'll sure tell.

 

[Minus Sign]

Its depressing to see even the diehards getting upset about poor product standards.

I feel for you. And I, frankly, can point no fingers anywhere but the companies. This level of a failure rate is a problem with either manufacture or acquisition (either they are buying shoddy or they're building shoddy).

It all boils down to unacceptable. I'm afraid to invest in another--better--e-cig because whose to say I won't buy the lemon model? leaford, even your stellar review of the KISSbox is rife with equal parts ire at failed usb components, broken buttons on the manual, and other problems.

And those are the better brands! Their new flagship!

"Oh AMEN, brother. Never have we been SO on the same page. But the only way it could happen, either in the UK or the US, would be for a premium brand. Everything fom the construction of the factory, to the manufacturing machines, to the labor for ongoing manufacturing would necessarily cost more. I'd spend the extra money, but only if it truly produced a better product."

There is another way. One of the oldest sayings in quality standards: "if you want it done right, do it yourself".

 

[leaford]

but i am serious about the expected life of these things.. i have no problem with how some of them work i simple want to know how long before failure on atomizers.. switches and batteries..

I'm with you 100%. But the manufacturers will never cough it up. We have to go Consumer Reports on them.

i dont really care how long they last.. i simply want to know the figures.. i am annoyed by the buy the right brand and u wont get the problems nonsense..

I'm with you 0%. That's a Strawman Argument. No one on here has said anything remotly like that.

i think they all have problems of atomizer/switch life i want to know what it is expected to be.. i think they know and if they dont know they should know..

75%. They should certainly have longevity data. I'm certainly concerned about longevity, as an important aspect of product quality. I do not make the same initial assumption you do, that they all have the same problems equally.

if an atomizers lasts a month.. fair enough but the brand believers are beginning to annoy me.. he he he..

Back to 0%. If it lasts a month, that's not fair enough, that's a failure. I would sure as hell expect to be able to return it, and expect a good seller/manufacturer to replace it. I would expect the lifespan of a GOOD unit to be at least several months, preferably a year. THIS is your standard?

if an expensive atomizer lasts longer lets have some proof.. a friendly smile and we will send a replacement in three weeks seem to satisfy most people so far.. it dosnt me..

Why not? You seem satisfied to throw defective parts away, why in the world would you be dissatisfied with a replacement, even if it gets delayed? But a replacement guarantee is different than how long a working unit lasts, so stop mixing apples and oranges. Proof of longevity for a new product is impossible, so there's no use insisting on it.

so far the devices are being consumed at greater rate then the liquid. :mrgreen:
trog

Maybe for you, but that's not my experience. All the same, I agree we should be able to have ratings for these things, I just figure we would be better off going ahead and doing it than asking them for the data.

 

[leaford]

Its depressing to see even the diehards getting upset about poor product standards.

I feel for you. And I, frankly, can point no fingers anywhere but the companies. This level of a failure rate is a problem with either manufacture or acquisition (either they are buying shoddy or they're building shoddy).

It all boils down to unacceptable. I'm afraid to invest in another--better--e-cig because whose to say I won't buy the lemon model? leaford, even your stellar review of the KISSbox is rife with equal parts ire at failed usb components, broken buttons on the manual, and other problems.

And those are the better brands! Their new flagship!

It's more of a general limitation of the technology than the brand or amnufacturer. It's still a new product and every new priduct from autos to microwaves, to cellphones has had a high failure rate in the early years. That said, it's not all equal. All of them fail some of the time, some of them fail most of the time.

On the Janty, Yeah, i got a few bad pieces. A few of the parts in particular, like the USB have had serious issues. But what worked WORKED!! Tons of smoke, easy to draw, with the manual switch I never had to prime it.

So yeah, even the best had problems. They know about the problems, and have promised to fix them. Other people have also had problems, and been promised replacements. Some have received them, some of us are still waiting. I do have faith they will make good on the bad parts, based on other people's prior experience.

By comparison, I have an E-pak from E-cig.com which doesn't work at all. Never worked at all. The LED light us a little, so I THINK the cig charged up. I've e-mailed. I got no response. I never bothered pursuing it, because I knew from reading other people's exoperiences It wasn't worth it. Trog knows that, too, since he doesn't bother either. He thinks that's acceptable, and keeps buying from them. I don't.

"Oh AMEN, brother. Never have we been SO on the same page. But the only way it could happen, either in the UK or the US, would be for a premium brand. Everything fom the construction of the factory, to the manufacturing machines, to the labor for ongoing manufacturing would necessarily cost more. I'd spend the extra money, but only if it truly produced a better product."

There is another way. One of the oldest sayings in quality standards: "if you want it done right, do it yourself".

I'm not sure what you mean by that. As in if I want it made in the US I should do it myself? I just said I don't know how that could be made to work, without costing a heck of a lot more. Maybe you could clarify.

 

[karenwest1961]

By comparison, I have an E-pak from E-cig.com which doesn't work at all. Never worked at all. The LED light us a little, so I THINK the cig charged up. I've e-mailed. I got no response. I never bothered pursuing it, because I knew from reading other people's exoperiences It wasn't worth it. Trog knows that, too, since he doesn't bother either. He thinks that's acceptable, and keeps buying from them. I don't.

That's the issue right there. Get burned once or twice and that's one thing. Keep going back for more and that's just e-masochism.

 

[trog100]

i am not complaining about poor workmanship or poor quality control.. regarding e smoking devices..

i am complaining about a product being miss-sold..

let me give a theoretical example that happened to me in the past.. a simple thing like a car battery.. it comes with a two or three year guarantee.. people think this means it will last at least two or three years.. it dosnt.. the product will last as long as the product lasts.. its a product that wears out.. how quickly it wears out depends on use.. in my case with my use i know it wears out in six months or it did back then.. my use has now changed.. so has the wear out time..

so whats with the fixed guarantee.. ???

now i think the technology used to heat the liquid that produces the vapour in an e smoking device is a technology that wears out.. and my main point is.. one that wears out pretty quickly.. in essence it should be sold as a semi disposable product.. not one with a five year guarantee..

they sell cartridges with a stated user life.. lets use the 300 puff one.. in short we know its a consumable part.. we can factor it in when we cost things out.. its a complete con but at least we now they are consumable parts and we can factor in some figure even if it does end up being three times higher than first expected..

the battery.. again its a product that wears out .. they say a 300 charge discharge cycle for a lithium cell.. its a consumable part.. but just like the car battery it depends on use and abuse.. place a too heavy charge discharge cycle on them and they die very quickly.. this is why my little AAA ones have died so quickly and my much larger pipe ones will live for quite some time.. one is a carthorse the other is donkey on steroids.. small low capacity isnt good..

why do i think the little coil used to heat the liquid and produce the vapour wont live long.. i have an engineering background and simply know little pieces of resistor wire coiled up and heated to red hot temperatures will not last very long when given regular every day use as they can get with an e smoking device being used by a heavy smoker..

i know i am being sold a lie which is why i dont spend any more on the lie than i have too..

but how would i cost out the long term cost of a ruyan e pipe at 350 dollars.. how many returns and extra shipping costs would i have to factor in.. would i have to spend 1050 dollars and buy three just to make sure i wasnt left nicotine less while the inevitable return merry go round is taking place..

no.. a nice man.. i think i am one first name terms with saying i will ship u a new one just send us the failed part back isnt good enough for me..

in fact i could have nightmares and imagine a hundred e pipes all somewhere in the worlds shipping lanes all part of the merry go round just to make sure i have a bloody e smoking device that works.. he he he

i am learning from experience just how long the little coils and pressure switches last and its not very long.. not as i am surprised.. and knowing enough about the principles involved i dont see any way of making them last much longer..

there really isnt going to be any technological break thru here.. a little cheap coil in a little ceramic pot isnt going to go away.. and a lithium cell is a lithium cell it isnt going to go away either..

knowing this.. all i want is the sellers/makers to fess up and give me a design life.. how many puffs can i expect from an atomizer before it dies.. cos die it will..

if mr expensive maker dosnt take the challenge and say yes for whatever reason my atomizer will last longer than e-cig atomizers we can assume they wont.. and i am proved right..

i have also told e-cig what they have done wrong with their neat e-pack concept.. i didnt even have to buy one to know it will fail as a product..

the pipe.. well its a beautifully made thing.. no signs of a quality control poblem in sight.. its batteries are big enough.. one problem solved.. when dripped it smokes superbly.. but one has failed after around 4500 puffs.. five more to go.. he he he

there is no quality control problems here leaford.. just technology problems.. i think they are made by some place called kingfox..

trog

 

[squeezes]

As far as I know, every single e-cigarette available nowdays has been manufactured under Ruyan's license. And that's the problem I think. Instead of developing new solutions, there are tons of enterprises making the same product over and over.

Another issue here is COST. I think manufacturing an e-cigarette, and then selling it for less than 100€, in Europe/UE/Japan is easily achievable. No high-end technology involved here (as they advertise), just a battery, a resistance-based vaporizer, a led and flavoured nicotine solution. A few chinese guys are becoming hugely rich with e-smoking I suppose :roll:

And then there is our occidental, widespread, moronic behaviour: "It's a ....ty, made in china, product but it's so cheap that if it brokes down in a matter of hours, i'll go and buy another one" I myself bought a cheap mini-cigarette from ebay. A complete waste of money, of course

 

[trog100]

As far as I know, every single e-cigarette available nowdays has been manufactured under Ruyan's license. And that's the problem I think. Instead of developing new solutions, there are tons of enterprises making the same product over and over.

Another issue here is COST. I think manufacturing an e-cigarette, and then selling it for less than 100€, in Europe/UE/Japan is easily achievable. No high-end technology involved here (as they advertise), just a battery, a resistance-based vaporizer, a led and flavoured nicotine solution. A few chinese guys are becoming hugely rich with e-smoking I suppose :roll:

And then there is our occidental, widespread, moronic behaviour: "It's a x@!%, made in china, product but it's so cheap that if it brokes down in a matter of hours, i'll go and buy another one" I myself bought a cheap mini-cigarette from ebay. A complete waste of money, of course

i think its equally moronic (actually more so) to assume paying thru the nose is gonna produce cost effective acceptable results.. :mrgreen:

i want affordable.. quality.. reliable cost effective e smoking.. if paying more up front for a device that will last longer or paying less but buying in bulk works the best as yet i dont know.. i am finding out.. nothing moronic about that..

trog

 

[TropicalBob]

I think what many of us find objectionable about your purchase philosophy is the idea that we need to buy lots and lots of spare parts so our unit can always be in working condition. Then we just trash failed parts, even if they arrived that way. What the heck? We shouldn't expect anything more? Puh-leez! That's the moronic part he spoke of. We should neither expect nor allow failures to be acceptable in any way. Roll over, consumer, is not my philosophy. I bought it; it damn well better work. And since some of these little toys seem to break if we stare at them hard, customer service becomes important.

A few good sellers come to mind: Meltrex with his $80 starter kits, Njoy with almost unanimous plaudits for customer service, Crown 7, pillbox.

Better one Meltrex Electronic Cigarette that works well after his testing and has him standing behind it with replacement atomizers if needed, than two crappy E-Cigs (remember shipping costs) and a bin full of stuff you paid extra for.

I know E-Cig initially looks attractive from a purely price perspective. They're cheap -- in more ways than one. But you have now used enough, experienced enough, read enough, to know that you shouldn't continue to reward that company with your money. I think some day you'll order a really good e-cig, like Meltrex's, and wonder why you have so many bins full of collectively expensive failures.

 

[karenwest1961]

I 100% agree with T-Bob. If it's about economics, then save the money and buy a more expensive one with a company who backs it's product. You WILL come out cheaper in the long run...and happier for that matter.

broken e-cig.com products + shipping costs = screwed anyway.

 

[trog100]

i started of with the UKs meltrex sold by pillbox equivalent bob.. a generic dse901.. i still have two new batteries and four spare atomizers.. i havnt said much about my none e-cig buys.. from what i now know from personal experience and what i read i would say they are as good as any and very good value.. better than most.. but i still see them as disposable throw away items..

it seems we are talking more a "rights" issue here thow.. also it seems an american rights issue.. i agree entirely with what u say.. a product should be fit for the purpose its sold for and of merchantable quality..

but i am also a realist... i know some of the "rights" i think i have dont exist when it comes down to the nitty gritty.. the ones i do have are disappearing at a great rate of knots.. but i am lazy.. taking up these so called rights is too much trouble.. but i do fully understand why some people dont like my cavalier attitude to consumer rights..

so far it looks like c-cig china will still keep my custom for while.. my nice smoking pipes look like they might last two weeks each.. and combined with the cheapish e-cig liquid might just provide my families e smoking needs.. and at cost we can afford..

i ask my eldest (the chain smoking schizophrenia suffering one) son an honest question today.. i said if roll ups didnt kill u and it came down to a simple choice.. the roll ups or the e pipe you are currently smoking which would u choose.. .. he surprised me and actually said the pipe i have grown to like it.. i rest my case..

trog

 

[TropicalBob]

That's a great note to end the message on. He's taken to it well, obviously. E-smoking can be a great source of stabilizing nicotine for anyone with ADHD or a brain chemical imbalance. Nicotine is a drug; and it works as medication for some.

As for exerting your rights, it does take some effort. But if consumers take everything lying down, without complaint, then there will be truth to the statement that "we get what we deserve." What I expect and deserve is value delivered for dollar paid. If I don't get it, the business has a mortal enemy for life and I won't be quiet about my experiences.

I do think the E-Cig E-Pipe has value. It's inexpensive, nice looking and well made. It was my first e-smoking purchase back in early January and I thought its wispy vapor was the norm. Only later did I learn better. But I still liked the pipe, wispy vapor and all. Pipes, after all, aren't for inhaling big clouds of smoke. They're for sipping tiny puffs, for absorbing nicotine through the mouth and nose. The only time a pipe smoker billows smoke is on initial light-up. But I never found a way to "sip" the E-Pipe and get any satisfaction. There wasn't enough nicotine in the wispy vapor. Ditto for the e-cigar, which does produce lots of vapor but only if I suck deeply for several seconds. That's not the way to smoke a real cigar either. So both register as disappointing to me.

Only my Meltrex pen style cig delivers lots of vapor, and thus nicotine, in a way cigarette smokers expect.

 

[trog100]

the pipes need dripping bob.. very pipe like then.. but lets be honest.. i know u say u like variety but i think in truth e smoking has failed u as a nicotine provider period.. i tried a pipe after the meltrex type i was after more and easier smoke than the meltrex type.. i knew "wisps" were not "it" else e smoking would have failed me right at the very start..

i also drip the meltrex type carts very wet to get more smoke.. dripping the carts very wet is pretty much the same as dripping straight into the atomizer.. more smoke and easier smoke..

i know its everyone to their own tastes but no way would i want to go round with a snus pouch stuffed under my lip.. if there was no other way.. nah i would have stayed on the roll-ups.. i hate the things..

trog