Inform Tobacco Smokers

[Vocalek]

It occurs to me that a lot of what we have been doing is trying to convince those who can't do anything (most FDA officials below the rank of Commissioner) and those who would happily see us dead (Campaign for Free tobacco for Kids -- o wait, did I get that wrong?). Anyhow, we need to increase the number of voices.

We need to reach the current tobacco smokers. In the past week I have started up conversations with smokers who were amazed and delighted to learn about this alternative. The statistics say that over 90% of smokers would like to quit, but don't want to give up nicotine.

So, we need to talk to smokers, one on one.

But another way to reach more people might be to target every news story we see that has tobacco smoking as the topic and leave a comment, or send a letter to the editor if it is print media, explaining briefly that there is an alternative that allows people to take in nicotine wihout ruining their lungs. Include an invitation to read comments at the petititon site. Again, that URL is

The Electronic Cigarette Petition site: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/keep-life-saving-electronic-cigarettes-available

 

[ladyraj]

Hey VocaleK, I am a smoker, though I vape as well, and I can tell you that if you approach most smokers with the stats such as 90% want to quit you will lose your audience. Most smokers are pro-choice for smoking alternatives, unfortunately this forum appears not very smoker friendly, and most of the e-smokers say mean things about smokers...so I'm not sure how one could bridge that gap.

If you go to The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary you can see what I mean. I love the idea in theory but in practice once the inveterate smokers got a look at this site...they may never return. It's a shame because we are all pro-choice for our personal vice but it gets strange when the sub-groups start slamming one another. Divide and conquer!8-o

 

[Reillj]

I've had pretty good luck talking to smokers. They seem interested generally, although I never push the idea on them. My wife still smokes, which makes it easier if we are out somewhere.

I think the key is to just get them to take a look.

 

[Volsfan]

In general, the only groups I have seen bashed on here are anti smoking groups and the FDA. Many people bash cigarettes, but not smokers. I have had great acceptance with my smoking buddies. Many of them want to try it, not neccessarily to quit, but to be able to smoke in places they can't today (even like in their own home or car).

Just my observation.

 

[LaceyUnderall]

We were recently at a reunion, sitting around a campfire, everyone was smoking... except for me. Vaping away with my little blue LED.

I could hear the questions in the small conversations... what is that? is she doing drugs? lol. In these situations, I usually sit quietly until addressed.

Finally someone asks. I give a small little spiel about nicotine, no combustion, love it. Asked if she wanted to try: Long time smoker replies: "Hell no! Good with what I've got."

The next day, I see her eyeing me from across breakfast. Then at pictures, she is trying to get closer to me. Finally, she gets to me through the crowd. "Ok. I am interested. I want to try."

So I let her try. I offer her tobacco or peach. She says she is a tobacco smoker only wants tobacco and the peach would be gross. Tries the tobacco, hates it. Tries the peach. LOVES IT!

Long story short, her husband is an ex-smoker who wants her to stop smoking tobacco and was SHOCKED at her unwillingness to try something that appeared to be working for me so well. Now, she can hardly wait to get her stuff and hubby has given her the go to vape away in their RV.

Lesson: If you can, have a couple of flavors in your pocket. We all know taste is subjective and sometimes, that's all it takes

 

[souporvapor]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-discussion/32073-making-easy.html

Suggestions requested - informing smokers is great - giving them an easy way to get the information.... priceless.

30 years of smoking....
Vaporized by my ScrewDriver!

 

[ladyraj]

Well, as one of those halfsmoker/half vaporer gals I have interests in both sides of the story and the science. I can gaurantee the more one talks about the evils of cigarettes one is perceived to be talking about the user. I don't like the image of the nicotine addicted smoker or e-smoker particularly when it's based on bad science. There is a big difference in use, abuse, and dependence. So, unlike many of my peers on this board, I do not hold the nicotine addiction theory to be true.

But that is based on my experiences and research in life which have formed my opinions.

I love my e-cig when I'm around other smokers...they always are curious about the taste and how it works. I've demonstrated the Mr Jim's papertowel experiment to loads of people...they are always surprised. I pass out cards to suppliers when I have them. I hope to see many more users in the community, but many are afraid to buy. Not because of the perceived danger from naysayers...they're afraid they'll be outlawed and then criminalized.

 

[sherid]

Hey VocaleK, I am a smoker, though I vape as well, and I can tell you that if you approach most smokers with the stats such as 90% want to quit you will lose your audience. Most smokers are pro-choice for smoking alternatives, unfortunately this forum appears not very smoker friendly, and most of the e-smokers say mean things about smokers...so I'm not sure how one could bridge that gap.

If you go to The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary you can see what I mean. I love the idea in theory but in practice once the inveterate smokers got a look at this site...they may never return. It's a shame because we are all pro-choice for our personal vice but it gets strange when the sub-groups start slamming one another. Divide and conquer!8-o

I totally agree with all that Ladyraj says. Recently, there have been some really troubling statements against smokers. That is quite foolish since there are 45 million ...... off smokers and a few hundred thousand vapers. There is strength in numbers, and those who alienate smokers are doing this movement no good. As for converting smokers, I find that equally offensive. If I want to quit smoking or simply start vaping, I will find my way there. Preaching to smokers about vaping is a certain way to to turning them off. 90% of smokers want to quit???? Yeah, right. If they did, they would find a way. Where did this statistic come from....the front page of ASH?

 

[LaceyUnderall]

90% of smokers want to quit???? Yeah, right. If they did, they would find a way. Where did this statistic come from....the front page of ASH?

It must have. One of their infamous, let's call 20 smokers and see what happens thing and call it an "official study".

Most smokers will tell you that if they want to quit they will quit. Most smokers also will tell you that they have no desire to quit because they love it. They love the plumes of smoke, they love feeling of something between their fingers. Many smokers I have talked to, can't fully make the switch to ecigs because it isn't "dirty enough" for them. (of which I can totally understand).

We all can't forget that we are still smokers... whether we are vapers only or smokers who also vape... and we should extend courtesy to our fellow smokers to allow them to make the decision for themselves... after all, that IS what everyone wants to take from us... our freedom to make decisions for ourselves. Don't fall into the trap of being angry ex-smokers

 

[TropicalBob]

That's a great story, Lacey, and you did exactly the right thing. You likely made a convert. I never preach these things. I remember too well when a cigarette was my best friend, 30 times a day. I didn't want to hear anything about "quitting" my friend that made me feel good. But the battle in my head was underway -- and a medical problem tipped the scales and I quit.

Face it: The risk/benefit ratio with cigarette smoking is overwhelmingly negative; that risk/benefit ratio with e-smoking tilts strongly to positive in my mind.

But I think the single biggest factor that stops smokers from quitting is: Fear of Failure.

E-smoking offers Hope of Success. We are the proof. We are not smokers, and we seem content in a way that agitated new ex-smokers cannot be. I e-smoke frequently in appropriate situations, and so far three relatives have converted to e-cigs without me "selling" them. A friend is converting now.

We can be examples of success to hold up to those fearing failure. Everyone knows that a cigarette is no friend (it's an assassin picking targets). Smokers know that .. but preaching or selling is frequently a turn-off for the addict. You did good, Lacey. We should all follow that kind of example.

 

[sherid]

It must have. One of their infamous, let's call 20 smokers and see what happens thing and call it an "official study".

Most smokers will tell you that if they want to quit they will quit. Most smokers also will tell you that they have no desire to quit because they love it. They love the plumes of smoke, they love feeling of something between their fingers. Many smokers I have talked to, can't fully make the switch to ecigs because it isn't "dirty enough" for them. (of which I can totally understand).

We all can't forget that we are still smokers... whether we are vapers only or smokers who also vape... and we should extend courtesy to our fellow smokers to allow them to make the decision for themselves... after all, that IS what everyone wants to take from us... our freedom to make decisions for ourselves. Don't fall into the trap of being angry ex-smokers

Exactly. I am appalled when I see posters here using the language of anti smoking: ashtray breath, etc. etc. Just a few days or weeks ago, everyone on here was a smoker (except for those posing as vapers on the forum) The denormalization campaign worked well on them. I shudder at those posts.

 

[breakfastchef]

I am not comfortable touting the e-cig as a smoking cessation method or an alternative to smoking. It is not a 'magic bullet' since other psychological and physical factors must be considered if someone is really interested in quitting. While it worked for me and could help others, I stay out of forward promotional activity. When someone shows interest, I will chatter away about vaping. I am also careful to point out that e-liquid has not undergone extensive testing. But I am confortable saying that nicotine does not kill, burning tobaccco kills.

 

[sherid]

I am not comfortable touting the e-cig as a smoking cessation method or an alternative to smoking. It is not a 'magic bullet' since other psychological and physical factors must be considered if someone is really interested in quitting. While it worked for me and could help others, I stay out of forward promotional activity. When someone shows interest, I will chatter away about vaping. I am also careful to point out that e-liquid has not undergone extensive testing. But I am confortable saying that nicotine does not kill, burning tobaccco kills.

IMO doing what you are doing is exactly how it should be done. We all make a choice to start smoking and to continue doing so. No matter what anyone says, if the will to quit smoking is strong, then the smoker will quit. My grandmother stopped smoking at 79 after smoking over 2 packs a day for over 65 years. She was not sick, just tired of smoking and quit cold turkey. Just as we started smoking, some of us decided to start vaping, but that doesn't make it right for everyone. When someone is interested in hearing about e cigs, they will ask; otherwise, it is not our place to preach or force it on anyone.

 

[westcoast2]

A useful resource is Velvet Glove Iron Fist by Chris Snowden Velvet Glove, Iron Fist: A History of Anti-Smoking

Although the whole book is not on-line chapter 10 is and gives a good account of the move from persuassion to coercion. This later feeds into the 'denormalization' of people who smoke.

There is also a review of many of the studies on Passive Smoking.

My experience differs markedly from those here. Sometimes even mentioning an e-cig brings derision and jokes about 'plastic cigs' and 'toy cigiarettes'. Even suggesting that the PV is an alternative to smoking has caused me problems. I try to have a live and let live approach. Sometimes this means you get shot from all directions.

There are many sides to this and alienting people who smoke and buying into the anti-smoker denormalization campain would seem to be self defeating. Bearing in mind that that campain is starting to turn its focus on other areas such as alcohol and food using the tobacco blue print.

The audience that determines this (apart from the government) is not the anti or pro it is the general public. They want to know if they are safe for them to be around. They also see the denormalizing process starting to happen to them.

So Vapors do not need to use denormalizing rhetoric. The PV can stand on it's own merits and at the same time expose the hypocracy of the anti groups rather than joining in with it.

just some thoughts,,,,

 

[TropicalBob]

Start from reality and work forward from there. Spikey is, right now, trying her best to rally support for e-smoking with a legislative body that considers an e-cig no different than a tobacco cigarette. E-smokers would be forced outdoors, made to comply with all bans imposed on tobacco smoking. I think it's safe to say that is NOT what most e-smokers want.

What is desired is acceptance of vaping or e-smoking in public and/or social situations. There's no second-hand smoke to annoy or endanger others. E-smokers are not a public nuisance, as cigarette smokers are in multiple ways (from tossed butts to burning someone nearby!).

A main problem with e-smoking is the negative perception that it's related to cigarette smoking.

I certainly don't see it as demonizing cigarette smoking to want e-smoking to be viewed apart from that community of now-persecuted addicts. If we choose to align our practice with theirs -- in any fashion -- then we will lose a primary reason many here e-smoke -- to vape in public without breaking any law. Cigarette smokers can't do that. We don't want that fate.

Blunt bottom line: Their cause is not our cause. Their war was fought, and lost. Our war is unfolding before legislative bodies like the one in Suffolk, and the last thing we want is for e-cigs to be considered just like "smoking".

 

[Mac]

I have talked to about ten thousand smokers extensively on this subject since january.

 

[sherid]

Some of us still smoke cigarettes, albeit in reduced amounts. I am a part of both groups, as are many others. I have no desire to join in any movement that faintly or blatantly participates in the denormalization campaign against smokers.

 

[ladyraj]

TBob, I normally agree with most of your thoughts and logic...in this case I respectfully submit you may be way off the mark.

If all of the suppliers/manufacturers/users of e-cigs are really concerned for the health benefit derived from using the product...who is the target audience?

If all the concern and expressions of support for choice were true...does it stop when you personally may be effected?

How many NEW vaporers will be brought to this technology if the e-cig distances itself from smokers?

But if one wants to demonstrate how to make a quick buck via the harassed smokers and drop them once your dollars and lifestyle choice may be threatened...you will by your actions be judged. I've seen the face behind the curtain...and it isn't pretty.

This stance on campaigning is in my view, is very short-sighted. No one has to distance themselves from smokers, one can simply use the science and individual accounts to make the plea for the e-cig...it stands alone. You can't blame smokers for the fix the e-cig is in...every e-smoker was previously a smoker and 75% of the population do not smoke anything. Play the odds if you want but it may be at the risk of a perceived lack of integrity, and you still may lose.

 

[Duckies]

ladyraj,

This isn't up to us. SE & nJoy tried the "call it tobacco" route and they are about to get their hats handed to them over it.

The new reality is that the FDA considers these devices "drug delivery" and liquid nicotine a "drug".

Sorry, but there are no other options in this game. It is either tobacco or it is a drug.

We know the FDA isn't going to allow self-dosing with liquid nicotine, so where does that leave any hope for the industry? The only hope is to target it as "safer" (if can be proven) for smokers and have 2 different fronts.

The days of combining efforts with tobacco are over (or will be very shortly). You can choose both paths, but recognize that they are different paths.

 

[ladyraj]

Hey Duckies, thanks for the reply, I get your point, I think. But...no one is asking for anyone to side with the tobacco route or a pro-smoking campaign. Not one single person from the smoking section has requested the e-cig users help in their lobby efforts. But loads of smokers are helping in the e-cig lobby efforts, myself included. If one wants to tout the health benefits of the e-cig it does not have to be done by distancing from smokers/smoking. The science underlying e-cigs will ultimately decide that fate. The science, anecdotal evidence from users of accidental quitting, and litter, etc issues are sufficient to plead the e-cig cases, calling smokers stinky is impolite(1 example).

If anyone believes that the forces against the e-cig aren't a few steps ahead of the e-cig please note:

3rd hand smoke/residue: Particles that land on surfaces after vaping...right here on this forum.

4th hand smoke/vapor: What we pull into our lungs and is exhaled persists for a duration of 3-4 minutes after the last draw/puff . Thus, a portion of the vaporized nicotine that our lungs did not process can be exhaled and a source of harmful exposure to the children.

Hard to believe? Check out:

4dangers

Please note that we do not process everything when we breathe in even oxygen. Normal respiration we draw in 21% oxygen and exhale 14-16%. Since there are no tests to prove the e-cig nicotine is fully processed, this argument can be used against them.