Inform Tobacco Smokers

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paise

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Oh...I know your not suggesting to walk up to smokers and say this but at the risk of being indelicate...your underlying belief that 90% of smokers want to quit is problematic for those of us who get stats thrown in our face on a regular basis. It's as if smoker's simply can't enjoy smoking just for the pleasure of the activity. You can see what I mean in the e-cig situation...if e-smokers are nicotine addicts shouldn't 90% of them want to quit? After all the families prefer no harm over a "safer" harm.

How's this for a sales pitch....We don't want you to smoke but if you do, smoke an e-cig, it has less chemicals.;):D8-o

The best way to approach them before the FDA and ASH got a hair across their backside was to let the smokers know they can get their nicotine kick in a cleaner, safer manner without a drop in nicotine dose AND they can do so by giving the tobacco companies and the government a big ole' kick in the .... because the E-cigs don't come with their outrageous tax hikes because technically, there is NO tobacco burning in them and it has no flame like a regular tobacco stick (cigarette) and even better, it gets them past the smoking ban so it's the end of going out in the cold, snow, sleet, rain, and hot sun to get a smoke. We can stay indoors like normal people versus being banned to the outdoors - practically in the streets as if we were second-class citizens. For once, we can tell the non-smokers to shove it where the sun doesn't shine for a change. :thumbs:
 

ladyraj

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The best way to approach them before the FDA and ASH got a hair across their backside was to let the smokers know they can get their nicotine kick in a cleaner, safer manner without a drop in nicotine dose AND they can do so by giving the tobacco companies and the government a big ole' kick in the .... because the E-cigs don't come with their outrageous tax hikes because technically, there is NO tobacco burning in them and it has no flame like a regular tobacco stick (cigarette) and even better, it gets them past the smoking ban so it's the end of going out in the cold, snow, sleet, rain, and hot sun to get a smoke. We can stay indoors like normal people versus being banned to the outdoors - practically in the streets as if we were second-class citizens. For once, we can tell the non-smokers to shove it where the sun doesn't shine for a change. :thumbs:

I agree but unfortunately with the current marketing strategies of some e-cig sellers the smoking population sees this as a stance against them via alliance with our anti-smoking enemies. The attraction of the e-cigs are the very reasons you stated above...paired with a kind of rebellious spirit and oppressive taxation. The flavors alone are great. We smokers know we are a customer base for e-cigs and some advertisements to offer the technology has been offensive to an already harassed group. Why would the e-cig vendors side with the harassers on this issue?8-o
 

hxj

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This has been a really interesting and enlightening discussion so far, and I'm honestly grateful to everyone who has contributed.

I just want to throw a little something out there, though, especially after these last few posts: with all this talk of not alienating smokers because they are potential allies, couldn't the same be said of nonsmokers? Or even, in some cases, anti-smokers?

In my (admittedly short) experience, most nonsmokers have no problem at all with my vaping in their presence, and in fact seem happy that there's an alternative to analog smoking catching on that may eliminate the smell of tobacco smoke from their workplaces, reduce the number of cigarette butts littering the sidewalk, etc.

Then there are nonsmokers and anti-smokers who have friends or family suffering from or at risk of serious disease because they smoke analogs; could not at least some of them be staunchly anti-smoking but pro-vaping, precisely because vaping isn't smoking and carries, as far as we can tell, far fewer health risks? There's plenty of anecdotal evidence, after all, that longtime smokers who switch to vaping benefit from greatly improved health in a seemingly miraculously short time.

Yes, groups like ASH have worked like crazy to demonize e-cigs, but what has been your experience with everyday, guy-in-the-street nonsmokers who encounter your vaping? Do you find that it carries the same stigma as smoking with them, or do they regard it as something positive? Because so far I've seen overwhelmingly the latter.

My concern is that will change, no doubt, if we all vape anywhere and everywhere simply because it's not prohibited by the smoking bans-- yet-- and tell the nonsmokers to "shove it where the sun doesn't shine."
 

ladyraj

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Hey hxj, All of what you have written is true and the primary reason the e-cig is popular. But what happens in places such as in Long Island where Spikey is fighting the good fight to not be dispatched to the smoking section to use the e-cig. Once we can't vape in places that smokers can not what is the attraction for the e-cig. Some may say the health aspect....but similar products have been offered that heated tobacco and were were smokeless and there wasn't a market for it until the smoking bans spread across the US 2-3 years ago. Remove the freedom to vape anywhere and I suspect sales will drop. But I hope I'm wrong. In either case...trashing those you want to market to via stinky allegations is impolite and hardly will draw customers. Telling vapors not to vape in front of children removes another benefit.
 
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seminolewind

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I do the same thing as Lacey. I wait till I'm approached. I NEVER tell people that it is a quit smoking device, although I have quit myself cause these taste far better. I always tell them that I started vaping to save some money off of cigarettes. And my intentions were not to give up smoking, but to have this as an alternative. I think that like me, for whatever reason, I was not thinking of quitting.
And I do believe that all the people on this MB do have a first hand experience of how we treat smokers.
And we are the few who can empathize with smokers and not treat them like social outcasts like the rest of the hypocritical public.
 

irbf

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Hxj has some great idea. Smokers, antis, reformist, vapers, these are all labels. They all divide (and conqure). One of the unforturnate effects of democracy is that _ANY_ minority can be marginalized, and then criminalized. PV users are a clearly small group. By keeping things positive, welcoming and informative, then perhaps individuals from varied groups will be supportive. That is the way to build support.

ASH can stand on emotional ploy and demonizing only so long as the majority is uninformed. The PV and its uses must stand based on merit and information.
 

vjnnc

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I had one guy at work convinced - he said he actually ordered 2 starter sets, then canceled because he heard what people were saying about the FDA and e-cigarettes.

I said are you kidding me? They found ONE carcinogen - at 75ppm or something like that - and you canceled your order - but you still smoke cigarettes?

Fortunately, I've shared this info with several other smokers at work, as well as family members, and most of them have at least tried the e-cig - about 7 have switched, one alternates.
 

sherid

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For me, the most significant part of the FDA analysis was that only one of 19 cartridges contained the so-called anti-freeze chemical. I think that excrutiatingly odd, as if it could have been tampered with by someone. I swear I read the names of the scientists and that they were infamous anti-smokers. I am trying to locate that source and have not done so yet.
 

Kitabz

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A useful resource is Velvet Glove Iron Fist by Chris Snowden Velvet Glove, Iron Fist: A History of Anti-Smoking

Although the whole book is not on-line chapter 10 is and gives a good account of the move from persuassion to coercion. This later feeds into the 'denormalization' of people who smoke.

This is just a quick bump for the above book.

After reading this post here I took a look at the website and read the sample chapters (plus the audio interviews with David Goerlitz - highly recommended) and placed an order for the physical book.

It came the other day and I've barely been able to put it down.
It's so interesting and just goes to show that we, as societies, just go round and round in circles. It seems that similar arguments against smoking plus the legislation that we see today have been going on and off for hundreds of years!

I'd say the book is somewhat sympathetic towards smokers. That's not to say that the tobacco companies come over as clean, they certainly do not but the anti-brigade come over just as bad and possibly worse - they don't have the excuse of profit/competitiveness driving them.

In any event - if you are happy to spend the money and are interested in this topic, I'd definitely recommend the book.
 

Maveric

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I love vaping and gave up tobacco the day I got my Blu (vaping a 510 now). I strongly believe it has turned my health around and has changed my life. After having a guy approach me and ask "what the hell are you smoking?", I think word of mouth is a great approach. While he wasn't sold on the whole idea, it peaked his interest. Sadly I didn't have any material to give him other then my personal view and knowledge. Well today I printed out 20 business cards and keeping them in my wallet for next time the opportunity arises. It reads:

[FONT="]What are E-Cigarettes? (Personal Vaporizers)[/FONT][/B][/CENTER]
[/CENTER]
E-Cigarettes are a new form of nicotine replacement. No tobacco is burned in this product, and it does not create smoke. A nicotine solution is vaporized into a water vapor that the user inhales. The vapor is free from tar, carcinogens, and thousands of chemicals that tobacco cigarettes contain. The water vapor expelled is virtually harmless to bystanders. The user has decided to quit smoking for many reasons, and is using this product to control his or her nicotine addiction in a safer way. The ingredients used in this product (with the exception of nicotine) and are deemed “generally recognized as safe” by the FDA.


[CENTER][I][FONT="]For More Info: (can't post URL's, but it is this site)

[/FONT][/I]
I realized I couldn't put all the information I wanted on the cards I printed out, and they don't look all that great. So I went online and created my own with the same information on the front, and addresses of both informational sites, and vendors I recommend on the back. 250 cards with a full color front for only $18.75. Small price to pay if it saves someones life, and promotes PV's. Also gives me something to hand out in a confrontation with a store employee, etc. Although I certainly will put it away if they ask.

Turnaround for the cards is about 2 weeks, but I will post pics when they come in.
 

DC2

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E-Cigarettes are a new form of nicotine replacement. No tobacco is burned in this product, and it does not create smoke. A nicotine solution is vaporized into a water vapor that the user inhales. The vapor is free from tar, carcinogens, and thousands of chemicals that tobacco cigarettes contain. The water vapor expelled is virtually harmless to bystanders. The user has decided to quit smoking for many reasons, and is using this product to control his or her nicotine addiction in a safer way. The ingredients used in this product (with the exception of nicotine) and are deemed “generally recognized as safe” by the FDA.
A couple of things about your business card text...

1) I'm not sure but I think the whole water vapor thing is incorrect
2) The juice is probably not totally free from carcinogens unless you are using zero nicotine
3) The vapor may or may not be free from carcinogens, I don't think we are sure yet
 

jmvallee

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I love vaping and gave up tobacco the day I got my Blu (vaping a 510 now). I strongly believe it has turned my health around and has changed my life. After having a guy approach me and ask "what the hell are you smoking?", I think word of mouth is a great approach. While he wasn't sold on the whole idea, it peaked his interest. Sadly I didn't have any material to give him other then my personal view and knowledge. Well today I printed out 20 business cards and keeping them in my wallet for next time the opportunity arises. It reads:


[FONT="]What are E-Cigarettes? (Personal Vaporizers)[/FONT][/B][/CENTER]
[/CENTER]


E-Cigarettes are a new form of nicotine replacement. No tobacco is burned in this product, and it does not create smoke. A nicotine solution is vaporized into a water vapor that the user inhales. The vapor is free from tar, carcinogens, and thousands of chemicals that tobacco cigarettes contain. The water vapor expelled is virtually harmless to bystanders. The user has decided to quit smoking for many reasons, and is using this product to control his or her nicotine addiction in a safer way. The ingredients used in this product (with the exception of nicotine) and are deemed “generally recognized as safe” by the FDA.



[CENTER][I][FONT="]For More Info: (can't post URL's, but it is this site)[/FONT][/I]




I realized I couldn't put all the information I wanted on the cards I printed out, and they don't look all that great. So I went online and created my own with the same information on the front, and addresses of both informational sites, and vendors I recommend on the back. 250 cards with a full color front for only $18.75. Small price to pay if it saves someones life, and promotes PV's. Also gives me something to hand out in a confrontation with a store employee, etc. Although I certainly will put it away if they ask.​



Turnaround for the cards is about 2 weeks, but I will post pics when they come in.​




Love the idea of a business card with an explanation..

Here's what I will print for mine - Comments welcomed..

What are E-Cigarettes? (Personal Vaporizers)​
E-Cigarettes are a new form of nicotine replacement. No tobacco is burned in this product, and it does not create smoke. Smoke is defined as a gas created by burning or combustion of organic material. A solution of propylene glycol and/or vegetable glycerin, nicotine and food-grade flavoring is heated into a vapor that the user inhales. The solution and vapor are free from the tar and chemicals that tobacco cigarettes contain. The user has decided to quit smoking for many reasons, and is using this product to control his or her nicotine addiction in a safer way. The ingredients used in this product (with the exception of nicotine) are used in other everyday products and deemed "generally recognized as safe" by the FDA.
 

Maveric

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A couple of things about your business card text...

1) I'm not sure but I think the whole water vapor thing is incorrect
2) The juice is probably not totally free from carcinogens unless you are using zero nicotine
3) The vapor may or may not be free from carcinogens, I don't think we are sure yet

1) As PG is the main ingredient, and it is a water based ingredient, I feel comfortable calling it water vapor.
2) Nicotine is NOT a carcinogen.
3) I make my own juice, and not a single ingredient is a know carcinogen. So logic tells me that the vapor would also be free from known carcinogens.
 

Ivisi

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1) As PG is the main ingredient, and it is a water based ingredient, I feel comfortable calling it water vapor.
2) Nicotine is NOT a carcinogen.
3) I make my own juice, and not a single ingredient is a know carcinogen. So logic tells me that the vapor would also be free from known carcinogens.

Nicotine is not a carcinogen, but if the nicotine is extracted from tobacco, it does contain trace amounts of tobacco-specific nitrosamines, and these are considered carsinogenic.

Also, it is not 'water vapor' in the classic sense. The cloud that is produced is water vapor that is bonded to the PG, so you are breathing and exhaling basically a combination of PG and water vapor, not water vapor alone.

If the liquid you make has 0 nic, then it would be a safe assumption that it is not carcinogenic, however there isn't definitive proof of this, and until those studies are completed and peer reviewed, I'd refrain from using an absolute definition like this. The better way to phrase it would be that it DOESN'T contain the myriad chemicals and carcinogens that are present in tobacco smoke.
 

DC2

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Nicotine is not a carcinogen, but if the nicotine is extracted from tobacco, it does contain trace amounts of tobacco-specific nitrosamines, and these are considered carsinogenic.
Yes, and to make sure Maveric is clear in case he wasn't aware of the recent FDA test results...
When we say "trace" amounts, we mean very, very trace.

Like about the same amount that is found in the various smoking cessation products...
Like the patch, gum, inhaler, and lozenges.

They were found in the liquid, but I think they were NOT found in the vapor.
Either that or it was not mentioned whether or not they were found in the vapor.
 
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Ivisi

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Yes, a just to make sure Maveric is clear in case he wasn't aware of the recent FDA test results...
When we say "trace" amounts, we mean very, very trace.

Like about the same amount that is found in the various smoking cessation products...
Like the patch, gum, inhaler, and lozenges.

I think there's more nitrosamines found in a cooked hot dog then there is in the contents of e-liquid, but since it's 'there', you can't very well say it's not.

Determining the language you use to describe these to others is very important, especially if you find yourself talking to someone who KNOWS what they are talking about. Saying that these contain no carcinogens to a person who knows that there are trace amounts will give them ammunition to argue back that you can still get cancer from them (not saying you can't, bear with me here. :) ). Saying that they contain trace amounts, and at detectable levels at or lower than the Nicotrol inhaler will remove that ammunition from their argument.
 

Maveric

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In hindsight I realize I shouldn't have said free from carcinogens. I am aware of the tobacco specific nitrosamines. I hope in the near future that a synthetic nicotine source will be tested and used for e-cigarettes which would solve this problem. I agree with Ivisi's comment that the food we eat (and probably the air we breath) is probably more carcinogenic than the E-Cig vapor we inhale. But I bet if I call oscar-myer or Trojan condoms and ask if their products cause cancer they will give a resounding NO. (Yes nitrosamines can be found in latex condoms too)
 

paise

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In hindsight I realize I shouldn't have said free from carcinogens. I am aware of the tobacco specific nitrosamines. I hope in the near future that a synthetic nicotine source will be tested and used for e-cigarettes which would solve this problem. I agree with Ivisi's comment that the food we eat (and probably the air we breath) is probably more carcinogenic than the E-Cig vapor we inhale. But I bet if I call oscar-myer or Trojan condoms and ask if their products cause cancer they will give a resounding NO. (Yes nitrosamines can be found in latex condoms too)

However you look at this issue be it foresight, present sight, or hindsight the truth still remains that the e-cigarettes ARE in every shape and form safer than tobacco cigarettes.

Heck, I went to my doctor whom I see monthly for lupus checkups and to pick up prescriptions that must be written by the doctor AT that 30-day appt and when I saw him on August 14th after beginning the E-cig Dura-C on July 7th, my doctor could NOT hear any wheezes or crackles or franks. He ALWAYS heard these throughout the years, every doctor I've been to in the last 28+ years since I began smoking has heard these sounds in my lungs from smoking yet upon use of the e-cigarettes from July 7th through August 14th, they were not there and have yet to return. My DH's uncle (he's more like a brother b/c the uncle came to live with my husband and his two older brothers when he was 11yrs old after his and my MIL's mother died so my MIL raised him like a son) checked my lungs since my appointment and the wheezes are still gone, the crackles are still gone, and the franks are still gone.

So, at least in my case, there is a major advantage along the health route no matter how you hash it out in words and phrases. Plus in addition to having clearer lungs, my lupus flares are not nearly as frequent and they are not as debilitating either. Sure, I have been fighting off a flare for the last few days but it was in combination with a cold and a stomach bug that was going around my little one's school. Anytime I am exposed to a viral infection or bacterial infection I tend to end up with said infection and then this said infection compromises my health because of lupus and Sjogren's. I'm in the moderate to severe stages so that basically means that when a bug of any short hits me, it hits hard. I'm getting better from both thank goodness. I still have a stuffy nose and my joints and muscles ache but nothing like they did a few days ago or even yesterday.

As for the so-called "nitrosamines," the FDA really doesn't have a leg, legally speaking, to stand on given the sheer number of items in our environment with this chemical in it. We can't turn around without walking right into nitrosamines. So, since there is no way to avoid contact with nitrosamines, what is the giant humongous deal the FDA is trying to make? It's like trying to run from the air we breath. It's not possible. We are always going to have air to breath as long as there is oxygen on this planet. We will always have nitrosamines as long as people are on this planet and possibly beyond should we ever develop the ability to leave our earth-bound home for somewhere out among the stars.

Is it really worth mentioning that their are nitrosamines in the e-liquid or pre-filled liquids? Maybe. Is it a reason to pull the e-liquids and pre-filled carts off the shelves? A resounding NO.

In the end, E-cigarettes are a safer alternative to tobacco cigarettes no matter how you toss, turn, or spin it. I'm living proof as are many others on this forum who have found that since using e-cigs over tobacco cigs they can do things they were unable to do before because of the tobacco cigarettes.

It's still my opinion that the FDA is receiving pressure from Big Pharma and the Tobacco industry because e-cigs and the liquid is safer than most if not all of what they are selling plus it's a hell of a lot cheaper thus it cuts into their big budgets not to mention those billion-dollars worth of bonuses at the end of the year or the quarter as well as all the palms that must be greased with our tax dollars to keep us sick and stuck on tobacco cigarettes.

The FDA needs to step back and leave us alone. I would have no problem with their running quality checks but here is my fear. They don't want an inch. They want a hundred or so miles. It will start out as capping the nicotine levels we can buy, then it will be capping the places where we can buy them. Then it will be capping or cutting off supplies for those with chronic illnesses. The next thing you know the FDA has the CDC involved and we can kiss not only e-cigarettes goodbye but also tobacco cigarettes while they let booze stay as it is just as it has over the last century or more.

Personally, I don't trust the FDA. I don't trust the CDC either. They lie and make statistics say what they want them to say. Just look at what the FDA did by scaring off potential smokers who would otherwise be feeling the breathing in their lungs without the wheezes, crackles, and franks. They scared those people just to keep them hooked on a tobacco cigarette that is 100x if not 1000x more dangerous all in the name of the almighty dollars from taxes.

Look at Fen Fen. Look at Prozac. Look at all the other drugs, which I can't name off the top of my head right now (still got some brain fog going on up there from the flare so please forgive me) that were deemed safe by the FDA yet caused people to die of heart conditions and blood clots, or go into rages where they committed murder or suicide or even both. There is even a case where a 13yo child came into a specific emergency room after stabbing her parent because she wasn't getting some type of decorations at her birthday party! Yet we are supposed to trust the FDA? I won't mention the drug but if you do enough research you will find those which cause hallucinogenic effects as well as suicidal tendencies in average people and young adults where the pharmaceuticals didn't take the time to properly test and the FDA allowed them the green light to push the drug through. There are many drugs still on the shelves that are just that dangerous yet the FDA allows any doctor in the country to prescribe it yet when the subject of lawsuit comes up, you play ring around the Rosie while the defense attorneys blame the victim and ultimately the doctor, the pharmacy, and the pharmaceutical company as well as the FDA get off scot-free while 'We the People" pay the price for their mistakes. Is it really worth it in the end?

I can't answer that question for you or anybody else but when it comes to e-cigarettes, I can trust my own judgment and I don't need our government trying to play parent along with the FDA trying to play the other parent because I am an adult and if I want to use a product not proven by the FDA then I should be able to do so. Look at all the cosmetics and wrinkle creams available online as well as the latest fad diet plans and vitamins sold all without the FDA approval yet nothing is said. You have to ask yourself what makes these products any different than electric cigarettes. It all comes back to the same thing. It's a giant bark up the you-know-where for Big Pharma and Big Tobacco as well as all the congressional leaders and patsies who are on the take to get it stalled so nobody loses their precious billions upon billions in tax revenue.
 
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