Input requested on first DIY purchase - diketone-free

[aunshui]

Hey DIY

After reading this thread and studying the dangers of inhaling diacetyl and other diketones for myself, I've decided to swear off pre-made juice for good, and go completely DIY. To complicate matters further, I'm also super poor right now and therefore need to do things as economically as possible, especially since it looks like I need to pick up new batteries in the near future as well.

I was hoping anyone here with DIY experience, in particular diketone knowledge, could advise me on my purchase so that I can avoid wasting money on things that are bad for me / I won't like.

All flavors are 10mL bottles from Flavourart unless otherwise noted (they seem to be leading the pack in diketone-free flavoring).

The following are flavors for the diketone - free recipes posted in the thread:

• Blackcurrant
• Liquid Amber
• Citrus Mix
• Concord Grape
• Oba Oba
• Maple Syrup
• Vanilla Tahiti
• Cookie
• Fresh Cream

As well as some mixing "essentials":

• MTS Vape Wizard
• PA Sweetener (sucralose) (Perfumer's Apprentice)

I also figured I'd grab a few flavors that I've enjoyed vaping up to this point. I'd love to hear if these are any good or better avoided:

• Apricot
• Bilberry
• RY4
• Peppermint

These are my nic/base/mixing tools:

• 250mL 36mG nic (I vape 18mg/ml, so I figure this will be good to start with since I just divide by 2, and won't be so ridiculously strong that I have to worry about harming myself/others)
• 250 mL VG
• 150mL PG
• 10-pack pipettes
• A few empty bottles, 10mL and 30mL

All purchased from [2] http://www.ecigexpress.com (PLEASE NOTE: I am not affiliated with them in any way, and indeed have never ordered from them before. They just seem to be a reputable all-in-one source with good prices that is located in the US).

Naturally, I also have a few questions:

1) I noticed there are 2 different RY4's from Flavourart, the one I listed above and another called oRYental 4. They both seem to be diketone free, but I'd like to know why I should choose one over the other. If it helps, I like my RY4's more tobacco-y than sweet, and definitely not perfume-y.

2) What am I going to run out of first? I vape about 2mL of 18mG a day, so nic-wise, a 250mL bottle at 36mg nic strength means 250 days, sometime in November. If I don't have to order again until then, I'd be a happy camper!

3) Anything I should order more of? I think I already know the answer to this (more base) but I'd like to get some input on the other items as well.

4) I'd also like to try a tobacco flavor, but I don't have any clue where to start! Any favorites?


I'm running low on juice so this order really needs to go out by the end of the week. Any help is greatly appreciated

 

[panachronic]

Do you prefer juices heavy on VG? Because if it were me, I would switch around your quantities of VG and PG. (Since I vape at 30% VG I use more PG overall.)

Suggestions:
Buy stronger nic, to leave yourself more room to alter your base formula. Using 36mg nic to make 18mg juice forces you to mix at a minimum 50% PG (or VG, if that's how you order your nic).

Ditch the disposable pipettes. They're almost worthless. Get syringes instead. Be sure to get 1 mL syringes to measure flavors.

Buy the smallest quantity of sweetener you can find. You won't use it often, and when you do, you won't use very much. In fact, being "super poor" (I can relate, my friend), you could even dissolve a packet of Splenda (sucralose) in 10 mL of PG and call it good (you'll get a 3-5 year supply of liquid sweetener that way).

 

[sidetrack]

Dairy and buttery flavors are usually where you'll find diacetyl. If you are going to order FA then go to their website and it will tell you flavor by flavor if vapeable. Your flavors look good to me(except the cream one), I don't do tobaccos so I can't help you there. Oba Oba and the vanilla Tahiti were so so for me but YMMV. That's a whole lotta nicotine, equal to 66-30ml bottles a 18mg per/ml. You might want to consider freezing at least 1/2 before you cut it with PG/VG. Glass bottle with tight fitting cap and the least amount of head-space possible. Invest in syringes and 14-16 guage blunt tip needles. Pipettes are designed for a single use.....can't clean them. Good Luck!

 

[aunshui]

Do you prefer juices heavy on VG? Because if it were me, I would switch around your quantities of VG and PG. (Since I vape at 30% VG I use more PG overall.)

Suggestions:
Buy stronger nic, to leave yourself more room to alter your base formula. Using 36mg nic to make 18mg juice forces you to mix at a minimum 50% PG (or VG, if that's how you order your nic).

Ditch the disposable pipettes. They're almost worthless. Get syringes instead. Be sure to get 1 mL syringes to measure flavors.

Buy the smallest quantity of sweetener you can find. You won't use it often, and when you do, you won't use very much. In fact, being "super poor" (I can relate, my friend), you could even dissolve a packet of Splenda (sucralose) in 10 mL of PG and call it good (you'll get a 3-5 year supply of liquid sweetener that way).

Thanks for the input! I have experience with both PG-heavy (BWB stuff) and VG-heavy (BASIC from Cignot) juices, and while I don't feel too strongly about it one way or the other, I have started to notice the sore/tired feeling some people report from too much PG, which is something I didn't get during my time vaping the VG-heavy BASIC juice. I've decided to go primarily VG to start, but I'd certainly like to experiment with PG as well to find that "golden ratio" for me.

I thought about going stronger on the nic, but it seems like having a nice round number to work with from the start might not be a bad idea. Still, going up to 48mg or even 60mg (the strongest they offer) shouldn't be too hard to mix, as long as it wont' be too dangerous.

I'll definitely go with syringes over pipettes. I do have a few laying around from past CCV orders, but I suppose picking up a few spares couldn't hurt.

Good suggestion about the sweetener. The bottle they have is only 10mL, but if I skip it that's another bottle of flavoring

 

[aunshui]

Dairy and buttery flavors are usually where you'll find diacetyl. If you are going to order FA then go to their website and it will tell you flavor by flavor if vapeable. Your flavors look good to me(except the cream one), I don't do tobaccos so I can't help you there. Oba Oba and the vanilla Tahiti were so so for me but YMMV. That's a whole lotta nicotine, equal to 66-30ml bottles a 18mg per/ml. You might want to consider freezing at least 1/2 before you cut it with PG/VG. Glass bottle with tight fitting cap and the least amount of head-space possible. Invest in syringes and 14-16 guage blunt tip needles. Pipettes are designed for a single use.....can't clean them. Good Luck!

Thanks for the input! I definitely cross-checked everything on the FA website, and it looks as if they've created that particular cream flavor to be vape-friendly (If you look at it on the website, it says "NEW. February 2010." which makes me think they've created it since the diacetyl scare, particularly with vapers in mind).

I could definitely see wanting to keep some of that nic away for another day, but will it degrade in any way? I definitely don't want to have any nic-related freezer disasters

 

[Fringeoflunacy]

Keep in mind that if you dilute the 36mg down to 18mg from the start, you'll actually end up somewhere around 14 - 16mg after adding flavoring (assuming you add between 10 - 20% flavoring). For most people that's not a big deal, but it's something a lot of DIY noobs don't realize at first.

 

[Shilo]

I recommend the Black Fire by Tobacco as must have smokey back note. Mellow Tobacco and Dark Vapure are workable.
Lorann's Tart N Sour or vinegar in your house over the vape wizard- your choice of course but vape wizard didn't do anything for my mixes.
The RY4 by FA is not one of their better tobacco flavors. For a really good RY4 you might have to end up creating your perfect tobacco base and then adding vanilla or caramel or whatever dominant note you enjoy to taste to make your own version. I also recommend having some ethyl maltol on hand as its good for adding body and moisture if a tobacco mix is tasting too dry, brittle, one dimensional or harsh.

Let the flavors steep at least a week before you make a final conclusion because with tobaccos it takes a little bit for the flavor to mature.

 

[AzPlumber]

Great suggestions by all the above with one exception. Using straight splenda is probably not a good choice as some of it's ingredients are not vape friendly. You can extract the sucralose from the splenda with pga but it takes time and knowledge. Stevia works as a sweetener for some people, some get a chemical taste. Some do fine without a sweetener and some can't live without it. The EM that shiloh mentioned is used at 10% dissolved in pg and can also be purchased pre-mixed as a product by TPA called cotton candy. If you will be mixing tobaccos EM is a must. Good luck and happy mix'n

 

[panachronic]

Great suggestions by all the above with one exception. Using straight splenda is probably not a good choice as some of it's ingredients are not vape friendly. You can extract the sucralose from the splenda with pga but it takes time and knowledge. Stevia works as a sweetener for some people, some get a chemical taste. Some do fine without a sweetener and some can't live without it. The EM that shiloh mentioned is used at 10% dissolved in pg and can also be purchased pre-mixed as a product by TPA called cotton candy. If you will be mixing tobaccos EM is a must. Good luck and happy mix'n

Splenda contains sucralose, dextrose and maltodextrin (sugars), plus a small amount of ingredients that don't dissolve in PG (anti-caking agents of some sort, I believe). The inert ingredients settle to the bottom of the container, and you can then pour off the sweetener solution.

I realize the sugars aren't good for vaping equipment, but since sucralose is so potent, nobody in their right mind would put enough solution in their juice to hurt anything.

 

[aunshui]

Thanks for the feedback everybody! I'll be placing the order today, so if anyone has some last minute suggestions, please post them soon