Interesting, My Doctors Do Not Consider Vaping Smoking at All

[CheekyMonkey]

I was intentionally vague because I really wanted to know how they viewed it. No one I encountered in either office equated vaping with smoking.

I wonder when life insurance Companies will get the idea.

Hey Mickey - if you've applied for life insurance and have been given a tobacco rate class, ask your agent to contact the underwriter to explain that you're a vaper rather than a smoker. The blood & urine testing cannot differentiate between vaping & smoking, so unless your agent explains that you are a vaper either on the application or by contacting the underwriter, you will automatically be given a tobacco class as there is nicotine in your system.

Even if it is noted on the application that you vape, the underwriter may miss the note (the applications are long and contain a great deal of information), so a follow up by your agent is your best bet. Some UW may be familiar with vaping, others may need a bit of education on the subject, and it may be passed along to a more senior underwriter or the medical director for review.

If you have any questions about the process feel free to PM me.

Edited to add: In most cases the UW will NOT speak directly to the insured for legal reasons. You can write them a letter to explain the difference between vaping and smoking, advise of the date you last used tobacco, and provide reference information, but your agent should be willing to make that call. Underwriting guidelines will vary from carrier to carrier, but if you SMOKED at any time in the last 24-60mo, you may get a tobacco rate class regardless.

 

[CheekyMonkey]

It's not the nicotine that should be of concern to insurance carriers. Nicotine is just a stimulant, proven to be of no more harm than caffeine. It's the carcinogens and other numerous toxins found in analogs that would warrant an investigation.

So, why would they test a non-smoker's urine for nicotine, if they know that NRTs exist, and how would a positive result factor into a coverage decision? They may, as well, put coffee drinkers into the same category. Coffee does contain caffeine, and does put off plumes of water vapor.

Part of the reason life insurance carriers test for nicotine is because a huge number of applicants lie about smoking on their applications for a variety of reasons - some don't want their agent to know because it is a cultural taboo, others think that if they only have a few cigs per day they aren't really smokers, and others know that their rates will be higher if they admit to being smokers.

Also, the failure rate of NRT is astronomical, and smokers have double the mortality risk of non smokers.

Your best bet really is to be completely honest about the date you last used tobacco, and disclose that you are now a vaper - provide information from CASAA to your agent so that he or she can present it along with your application. If you claim non smoker without disclosing the fact that you are a vaper, and nicotine is found in your test results, it will cause more of a headache than it would if you disclosed it up front. Remember, the insurance application is a legal contract - honesty and full, accurate information is your best bet for a desirable outcome.

(and yes, I'm a new business geek for a life insurance company )

 

[CheekyMonkey]

I think even if you pass the blood test they may test your blood after you have had your PV pried from your cold dead hand and say you had nic in your body so you were a smoker and refuse to pay. Life is not fair

There is a contestability period on life insurance policies, generally 24mo. If you lie on the application it is fraud, and the company can refuse to pay out anything, and simply return any premiums paid to your beneficiary. Again, just note on the application that you VAPE, disclose the date you last SMOKED or used tobacco, provide some backup to the less harmful affects of vaping, and have your agent advocate for you. It's their job

 

[Iffy]

It's not the nicotine that should be of concern to insurance carriers.

True, BUT it's da 'hook'!

Until there is definitive and 'accepted' study, fergittaboutit...

 

[Beans]

DH and I go through American Income Life, as long as you have quit smoking for 12 months they concider you a non smoker. My agent was very knowledgeable about e cigs, he said "vaping is much safer than smoking" and the company is happy to give vapers non smoking rates.

 

[gumchewer]

You might want to ask your insurance company. From what I've seen, you can't for most of them.

it's a matter of piss test for nicotene.
sorry, I said "test"

 

[oldsoldier]

The funniest thing about this all is my wife's pulmonologist got us started vaping. Most of the local docs here support vaping, but the local hospital's administration considers it smoking so it is not allowed (now). Go figure...

 

[NaturesEncore]

Part of the reason life insurance carriers test for nicotine is because a huge number of applicants lie about smoking on their applications for a variety of reasons - some don't want their agent to know because it is a cultural taboo, others think that if they only have a few cigs per day they aren't really smokers, and others know that their rates will be higher if they admit to being smokers.

Also, the failure rate of NRT is astronomical, and smokers have double the mortality risk of non smokers.

Your best bet really is to be completely honest about the date you last used tobacco, and disclose that you are now a vaper - provide information from CASAA to your agent so that he or she can present it along with your application. If you claim non smoker without disclosing the fact that you are a vaper, and nicotine is found in your test results, it will cause more of a headache than it would if you disclosed it up front. Remember, the insurance application is a legal contract - honesty and full, accurate information is your best bet for a desirable outcome.

(and yes, I'm a new business geek for a life insurance company )

Well, that explains it. Great job explaining their rationales. I have a meeting with my agent next week, and have organized an arsenal of infomation from CASAA, my personal doctor, as well as several other resources to present to her. She already knows I am a vaper (she is, too), but I wanted to update my records to reflect that I am no longer a smoker.

Thank you for the information.

 

[MickeyRat]

The funniest thing about this all is my wife's pulmonologist got us started vaping. Most of the local docs here support vaping, but the local hospital's administration considers it smoking so it is not allowed (now). Go figure...

Interesting...One of the threads I keep updating is about my wife's lung problems. I just have a really bad cold but, she's been having more severe problems and is seeing a pulmonologist. I finally got her to quit smoking and start vaping. My doctor wanted to know whet the pulmonologist thought about it. She hasn't been back to tell him..yet. If he's in favor, I'll be sure to get the message back.

 

[CheekyMonkey]

Well, that explains it. Great job explaining their rationales. I have a meeting with my agent next week, and have organized an arsenal of infomation from CASAA, my personal doctor, as well as several other resources to present to her. She already knows I am a vaper (she is, too), but I wanted to update my records to reflect that I am no longer a smoker.

Thank you for the information.

You're welcome - let me know if you have any other questions

 

[x7712x0ra]

Part of the reason life insurance carriers test for nicotine is because a huge number of applicants lie about smoking on their applications for a variety of reasons - some don't want their agent to know because it is a cultural taboo, others think that if they only have a few cigs per day they aren't really smokers, and others know that their rates will be higher if they admit to being smokers.

I was under the impression that testing for nicotine is easier and cheaper than testing for actual tobacco use. In fact, I'm not aware of any test for tobacco use unless it's related to nicotine...

 

[MickeyRat]

I was under the impression that testing for nicotine is easier and cheaper than testing for actual tobacco use. In fact, I'm not aware of any test for tobacco use unless it's related to nicotine...

I believe they can test for tars in saliva but, it's not a long term test.

 

[x7712x0ra]

I believe they can test for tars in saliva but, it's not a long term test.

Interesting, worth some research. I wonder about the cost and effectiveness of such tests...

 

[CheekyMonkey]

I was under the impression that testing for nicotine is easier and cheaper than testing for actual tobacco use. In fact, I'm not aware of any test for tobacco use unless it's related to nicotine...

I'm not aware of ways to test for actual tobacco use. Nicotine testing is common practice among life insurance carriers, but guidelines will vary from company to company as far as what is considered a non tobacco vs tobacco rate class and how long someone must be tobacco free. Really, the best bet is to disclose on your app that you're a VAPER, give the date you stopped using analogs, or chewing tobacco, cigars, etc., and have your agent follow up with the underwriter on your case to explain that you're a vaper and provide any documentation requested regarding the less harmful effect of vaping vs. smoking.

Your agents job really is to advocate for you and attempt to obtain the best possible rate class while still working within the guidelines. They also have a fiduciary duty to provide any and all information to the insurance carrier/underwriter to help them make the best possible decision regarding the mortality risk you pose.

 

[x7712x0ra]

I'm not aware of ways to test for actual tobacco use. Nicotine testing is common practice among life insurance carriers, but guidelines will vary from company to company as far as what is considered a non tobacco vs tobacco rate class and how long someone must be tobacco free. Really, the best bet is to disclose on your app that you're a VAPER, give the date you stopped using analogs, or chewing tobacco, cigars, etc., and have your agent follow up with the underwriter on your case to explain that you're a vaper and provide any documentation requested regarding the less harmful effect of vaping vs. smoking.

Your agents job really is to advocate for you and attempt to obtain the best possible rate class while still working within the guidelines. They also have a fiduciary duty to provide any and all information to the insurance carrier/underwriter to help them make the best possible decision regarding the mortality risk you pose.

So you have experience in the life insurance business?

 

[CheekyMonkey]

Yes, I'm currently on medical leave, but am employed by a large life insurance company and work closely with our agents, underwriting and new business departments. I'm also nearly finished with an industry designation that is considered a fellow in life management.

 

[x7712x0ra]

Yes, I'm currently on medical leave, but am employed by a large life insurance company and work closely with our agents, underwriting and new business departments. I'm also nearly finished with an industry designation that is considered a fellow in life management.

Then I'll be sure to contact my agent and discuss what you've relayed. Thanks for the insight!

 

[CheekyMonkey]

Then I'll be sure to contact my agent and discuss what you've relayed. Thanks for the insight!

You're welcome! Let me know if you have any other questions - I'm only a PM away

 

[Dana A]

I actually agree with your doctor...Vaping is not smoking

 

[DC2]

In fact, I'm not aware of any test for tobacco use unless it's related to nicotine...

I believe testing for carbon monoxide can be used to determine if someone is a smoker.