IPV D2 announced.
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Pre-built nickel coil heads still have a long way to go before they're reliable with TC. Biggest issues are they have overly-long legs, which skews the resistance reading, and they have sub-optimal connections using disparate materials with different expansion rates, that also skews resistance readings. It'll be less of a problem with higher resistance TC wires like titanium or stainless, and I reckon it won't be long before nickel falls completely out of favor.
Some Possibilities
1) above temps that will scorch Cotton
2) Possible change in coil resistance effecting Base calculations
3)Jules over ramping set temperature.
I have seen several shifts in Base resistance on various Ni and TI builds. Possible Barometric pressure changes, or actual coil fluctuation.(no idea why)
I now check and relock my TC mods before use each day and have seen a few hundredths shift.
One coil on my SX mini jumped from .076 to .110-.112 and seems to now be happy there.
TC is still fairly new and I have a feeling we need to learn a lot to overcome what may(or not) be user errors.
I do NOT intentionally Vape dry and try my best not to accidentally do it. I'll leave that to the Reviewers. To me Safe is me doing the right thing at the right time.
1) above temps that will scorch Cotton
2) Possible change in coil resistance effecting Base calculations
3)Jules over ramping set temperature.
I have seen several shifts in Base resistance on various Ni and TI builds. Possible Barometric pressure changes, or actual coil fluctuation.(no idea why)
I now check and relock my TC mods before use each day and have seen a few hundredths shift.
One coil on my SX mini jumped from .076 to .110-.112 and seems to now be happy there.
TC is still fairly new and I have a feeling we need to learn a lot to overcome what may(or not) be user errors.
I do NOT intentionally Vape dry and try my best not to accidentally do it. I'll leave that to the Reviewers. To me Safe is me doing the right thing at the right time.
My faith in TC has been waning as well, but I think we are being a little bit unfair in that our expectations may have been a little high. Of course, we have been promised a lot as to what we can expect from TC - from both users and suppliers - so some of the blame for those high expectations is not entirely ours.
I totally blame Vapor Shark. "There was a demand for nickel coils for the Nautilus and they delivered it," even though basic testing would've told them it wasn't going to work very well? Why would they deliver the product then if it totally sucks eggs? That makes no sense - at least for a REPUTABLE business in it for the long haul. If it is not a reputable business, then sure, what the hell, sell people useless crap they will be unhappy with. They make some money, so what do they care? Is that the same business model they use when it comes to their other devices? Sorry, I just thought I needed to vent that thought before moving on.
Okay, so you like the Crown based on your real world use of the tank. Cool. I like that. Have you used it to mouth-to-lung hit with? If so, did you like that more than MTL with the Nautilus? If so, what is it about the Crown that makes it more suitable for MTL? I apologize in advance for all the questions. I'm just really interested and curious. I'd like to get as much input on the subject before I dive into another tank for TC MTL use.
I totally blame Vapor Shark. "There was a demand for nickel coils for the Nautilus and they delivered it," even though basic testing would've told them it wasn't going to work very well? Why would they deliver the product then if it totally sucks eggs? That makes no sense - at least for a REPUTABLE business in it for the long haul. If it is not a reputable business, then sure, what the hell, sell people useless crap they will be unhappy with. They make some money, so what do they care? Is that the same business model they use when it comes to their other devices? Sorry, I just thought I needed to vent that thought before moving on.
Okay, so you like the Crown based on your real world use of the tank. Cool. I like that. Have you used it to mouth-to-lung hit with? If so, did you like that more than MTL with the Nautilus? If so, what is it about the Crown that makes it more suitable for MTL? I apologize in advance for all the questions. I'm just really interested and curious. I'd like to get as much input on the subject before I dive into another tank for TC MTL use.
I have no reason yet to wain on TC either in the SXM or the D2
My only disappointment so far was clearly User Error in my first KS build.
Second build is slamming!
NI200 in SXM
TI Grade1 D2
Both work very well
Biggest learning curve so far has been finding the correct settings for my Preferred vape. That is on me, not the Mod and I did get there.
I spent a Lot of time early on working with Replacement heads. Mosstly Kanger, but they All use the same basic design:
Shell
Coil
Grommet
Center pin
Coil is Pinch fit in/out side Grommet - Crappy Contact that must settle with use.
Center pin Must achieve Good contact to Battery or Base(tank dependent) to maintain resistance.(often flaky)
That alone is why IF I ever purchased an STM I would ONLY use the RBA deck to minimize risk of early failures.
Why?
My Ni200 has over 30 tank fills on the Original Ni200 and Rayon build and still going strong.
Ti Build on the D2 KS tank already has the last of a 30ml bottle and down to the lase 2-3ml. I will have to Re-wick to change Flavors, but expect no issues with the coil.
Tanks using solid builds are RTA
Tanks running replaceable Coil heads are Giant Clearomizers, Better than regular but not nearly as good or reliable as a well built RTA
Been there / Done that
My only disappointment so far was clearly User Error in my first KS build.
Second build is slamming!
NI200 in SXM
TI Grade1 D2
Both work very well
Biggest learning curve so far has been finding the correct settings for my Preferred vape. That is on me, not the Mod and I did get there.
I spent a Lot of time early on working with Replacement heads. Mosstly Kanger, but they All use the same basic design:
Shell
Coil
Grommet
Center pin
Coil is Pinch fit in/out side Grommet - Crappy Contact that must settle with use.
Center pin Must achieve Good contact to Battery or Base(tank dependent) to maintain resistance.(often flaky)
That alone is why IF I ever purchased an STM I would ONLY use the RBA deck to minimize risk of early failures.
Why?
My Ni200 has over 30 tank fills on the Original Ni200 and Rayon build and still going strong.
Ti Build on the D2 KS tank already has the last of a 30ml bottle and down to the lase 2-3ml. I will have to Re-wick to change Flavors, but expect no issues with the coil.
Tanks using solid builds are RTA
Tanks running replaceable Coil heads are Giant Clearomizers, Better than regular but not nearly as good or reliable as a well built RTA
Been there / Done that
Some Possibilities
1) above temps that will scorch Cotton
2) Possible change in coil resistance effecting Base calculations
3)Jules over ramping set temperature.
I have seen several shifts in Base resistance on various Ni and TI builds. Possible Barometric pressure changes, or actual coil fluctuation.(no idea why)
I now check and relock my TC mods before use each day and have seen a few hundredths shift.
One coil on my SX mini jumped from .076 to .110-.112 and seems to now be happy there.
TC is still fairly new and I have a feeling we need to learn a lot to overcome what may(or not) be user errors.
I do NOT intentionally Vape dry and try my best not to accidentally do it. I'll leave that to the Reviewers. To me Safe is me doing the right thing at the right time.
Coil resistance was .15 ohms when new. I could only LOCK IN at .11 ohms as it aged. As far as vaping below juice holes, come on guys, this ain't my first vape, one of the main benefits touted for TC/TP is the safety of the device letting you know and shutting down when there is NO juice, worked properly one out of two times. I watch my tank levels, did this on purpose.
While testing the tech may not be for everyone, I don't mind. Just be careful!
Well, I agree that the TC is for safety, but when I tested it on my IPV4, D2, VF DNA40, and Hana Clone all of the wicks charred and eventually caught on fire...Kinda defeats the purpose of temp control if power isn't being regulated to prevent a wick from igniting when there isn't any juice on it...
What did you test that failed on all of your devices? Wire type? Wattage? Temp?
Ni200 28ga, 450 temp on all the devices. On the IPV ones 30J, on the DNA40 30W. When I get home if I have time I will replicate with pictures.
Something's wrong. It's should not ignite or even close to if the build is done correctly and connections are solid. Double check to make sure you have real nickel wire and make your coils spaced. And report back.
As much as it pains me to sound like one of the infamous DNA40 fanbois, far too often, the failure of TC is user-related. Think about it for a moment, if you're failing on every test on every device, the one constant seems to be you and your build.
I have, I've been building with Ni200 as long as most people. My theory on it is a weird one, but hear me out and see if this makes sense to anyone...
We all know that the coils heat up from the middle out, same is true for Ni200. When the chip is checking the resistance, it checks the entire coil. Being that the tails of the cotton are constantly in juice, that means the ends of the wick inside the coils are wet before the center. Even if this is only true for a few second, the chip reads the resistance of the coil as a whole, pushes more power based on that reading, while the center continues to get hotter because of the lack of juice, subsequesntly burning.
We all know that the coils heat up from the middle out, same is true for Ni200. When the chip is checking the resistance, it checks the entire coil. Being that the tails of the cotton are constantly in juice, that means the ends of the wick inside the coils are wet before the center. Even if this is only true for a few second, the chip reads the resistance of the coil as a whole, pushes more power based on that reading, while the center continues to get hotter because of the lack of juice, subsequesntly burning.
Even when used with the most restricted airflow, I would not consider it a MTL tank, same thing with the Crown.
A couple of folks I know are MTL vapers, and they absolutely love the Triton but YMMV.
Properly spaced coils with solid connections don't heat from the inside out though, mate. Long legs becoming hot legs can be an issue (and like I said earlier, the biggest reason why prebuilt coil heads retrofitted to Ni200 generally suck) and you should avoid long legs whenever possible to minimize trouble.
But even then, hot legs are most commonly due to connection issues (leg connection more loose on one side than the other, causing more resistance on the loose side, allowing it to heat faster than the rest of the coil), or bad spacing allowing a short (usually on the underside near the leg, where people miss it), and it's not uncommon to have a combination of both.
You can minimize the loose connection issue (and reduce the chances of cut lead when tightening) by doubling the legs. Simply cut your legs longer than usual, fold them back towards the coil, trying to orient the wire so that they are flat and side by side looking from the direction the screw comes in. On my side-tightening Velocity, for instance, I fold the legs under so they look "stacked" like an over/under shotgun, on a top tightening Goliath or any atomizer that doesn't have posts (like a Kayfun), I fold the legs from the side, so they look like a side-by-side double barrel shotgun, if that makes any sense. Mount and clip as usual.
Doesn't add much if any static resistance to the build, but allows for better connections and makes it much more difficult to cut the wire with the post screws, allowing you to use more torque to tighten, giving you even better conductivity. Works best on post hole designs, and is less effective/impossible on some "wrap around the screw" designs that use small screws (like the original Subtank RBA).
I'm going to have to disagree with you that spaced coils dont heat up from the center out, I see the same thing with kanthal. When I get home I will experiment and take pictures. I won't have the HanaModz clone or the IPV4, but the D2 and VF will both be tested.
Ahmmm............. User working outside proper perameters
Cotton degrades at 380F No getting around that even for a millisecond. Keep hitting it at 400+F and you will eventually char it.
Set Joules to high and the over ramp will increase Heat over time due to wire retention.
We are the weak link in TC
Also - No Dry Hits is the - Catch Phrase - to sell to new Vapers. Blame Evolve for starting it.
Best reason I have found for Temperature control is:
Consistent, Repeatable performance whether a 4 second or 10 second draw.
No over heating at the end and a smooth steady delivery at preferred temperature.
There is a purpose for TC just not the one they are selling. At least not with the lack of education on TC due to Manufacturer neglect.
Cotton degrades at 380F No getting around that even for a millisecond. Keep hitting it at 400+F and you will eventually char it.
Set Joules to high and the over ramp will increase Heat over time due to wire retention.
We are the weak link in TC
Also - No Dry Hits is the - Catch Phrase - to sell to new Vapers. Blame Evolve for starting it.
Best reason I have found for Temperature control is:
Consistent, Repeatable performance whether a 4 second or 10 second draw.
No over heating at the end and a smooth steady delivery at preferred temperature.
There is a purpose for TC just not the one they are selling. At least not with the lack of education on TC due to Manufacturer neglect.
*Note:
One can do the same thing day in and day out. If it is done wrong the result will always be wrong. Such is life.
As more mods Adapt Ni we will likely see it offered in Replaceable heads.
Right now - Tank Makers are simply scrambling to hold onto their share of the market. Replacement Coil heads are a huge part of their bottom line. Can't blame any of them for trying and they are likely using the best data they can get to Design to the Paper Theories. Unfortunately there are just so many variables to consider beyond Coil resistance changes.
Again:
We are the weak link
Some prefer more air flow
Some prefer less air flow
Everyone has a certain draw volume that often varies
E-liquids wick at different speeds
Temperature and other environmental factors effect coil base temp
Dissimilar Metals react differently according to attachment(contact)
I'm do scientist, but I try and get a grip on the overall picture.
The one thing in life I have found that is the most inconsistent is the Human interface.
Cloupor has a new mini. Tc and 5 colors and even Hott Pink for the lady's......
Cloupor mini plus 50W Ni200 and Titanium Smart-Auto Temperature Control Box Mod
Cloupor mini plus 50W Ni200 and Titanium Smart-Auto Temperature Control Box Mod
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