Is e-smoking increasing our addiction ?

[MNZ]

This is something I've been considering over the last few days, here is my thoughts based on my usage so far.

I smoked about 20 marlboro lights a day + or - ... Now I find I have my e-smoker in my mouth pretty much continually and am almost constantly taking smallish inhaled puffs from it interspaced with regular large inhalations.

One thing that has been noted on here from a number of users is there is no natural finish associated with vaping. With a tobacco product, cigarette, cigar, pipe etc, you light it and when it's finished you stop, at some later stage you repeat that process, with an e-product apart from cartridge changes and battery changes it will keep going as long as your atomizer and battery life allow.

A number of users have also mentioned getting into an almost overdose condition from continual use over the course of a hour or two and have had to stop.

I find that I am getting to a similar situation occassionally. I am noticing the stimulant effect of nicotine more than I did previously with cigarettes, for example. I was generally a 3 cigarette start to the day guy. I never really felt any great stimulant effect from those cigarettes, but now using vaping to start the day I get a 'hit' almost immediately. Thinking about it, I'm not surprised by it, tobacco smoking as we all know contains large amounts of crap chemicals that do serious buggering up to our internals. I imagine that the CO and CO2 intake alone from a cigarette would be enough to counter some of the stimulant effect from the nicotine, whereas with PPG and nicotine there is none of the counter effect to reduce the overall stimulant action of straight nicotine.

I have also noticed a bit of insomnia, I used to spend around 7-8 hours in bed per day, it is now around 6.5 to 7.5 hours and I seem to have a bit more difficulty falling asleep, I can't say I've noticed any increase in general tiredness levels though ... perhaps that's from the regular hit I get from nicotine during the day.

My concern is if these things are ever banned, manufacture stops, China blows up, floods itself, or earthquakes itself off the map, am I going to end up smoking more than I did before to get the same level of nicotine stimulation I'm getting now with a constant inhaled supply of clean nicotine into my lungs.

Here in New Zealand ongoing supply is something I do have to consider, currently I cannot buy nicotine carts locally, I have to import them, which I can do for personal use only. The anti-everything brigade may very well prevent me even doing that. Already there are tobacco products that are tottaly banned even for personal use, snus being one of those as is snuff, chewing tobacco is another, but thats filthy crud anyway and should be banned full stop.

If there is a ban on importing nicotine carts, I guess as an interim measure I could make my own juice, what would right royally stuff it up for me is if the mechanicals become banned imports too. That's why I've been following closely the threads on making your own juice and the so far thin thread on building a home made e-smoker from scratch. I'm hoping that doesn't become my only option.

Thoughts, experiences, knowledge anyone ?

 

[karenwest1961]

I understand about the continuous thing. I was doing that myself and overdosing myself quite a bit.

I don't anymore. I've made myself aware to put the e-cig down after 15 puffs. And I use it once an hour. If I want to puff in between, I've made myself a 0 puffer. It has worked for me well and I haven't O.D'd since.

T-Bob is the best one to talk to about making your own liquid. He's the man!!!!

 

[TropicalBob]

Michael, you rang a major bell with me when you wrote that insomnia had increased. I have exactly the same problem. I've read before that it takes a smoker twice as long to fall asleep as a non-smoker, but my "20 minutes to sleep" has become hours and hours. Three night ago, I slept from 5 a.m to 6 a.m. That was it. It often takes 3 hours for me to fall asleep. I blame this on the overstimulating effects of my nicotine intake.

I think e-smoking does lull us into overconsumption of nicotine. Other smoking methods are "timed" in some manner. E-smoking is not, and can be continual. I have fallen into that category. What we've done is increase the body's dependence on and tolerance to nicotine. Once upon a time, you as a new smoker could go a long time between cigarettes. Then that time shortened. Then the number of cigarettes smoked each day increased until you reached a personal maximum level (for some, that could be 4 packs a day or more). E-smoking has the same addictive cycle.

My trouble is that -- absent a timed consumption -- I don't realize how much nicotine I've taken in. I lean toward overdose: slight headache, minor dizziness. You, too, are probably taking in more nicotine and increasing your body's tolerance for the addictive substance. And if nicotine turns out to be less than benign in its health impact, then we ex-smokers have only moved from one danger to another.

Ain't addiction grand?

 

[NerdyCinderella]

TALK ABOUT ADDICTION!
It's been about 36 hrs since I've reduced my nicotine intake to about half (1/2 high nicotine cartridges and 1/2 low) - maybe a little more, maybe a little less.
I am absolutely exhausted this morning. Can barely keep my eyes open.
Guess I was really taking in more nicotine than I thought.
Hardly felt like posting this morning but wanted to "for the record."

Would someone wake me up for dinner?
[right:32phfvyu]

[/right:32phfvyu]

 

[jasondavis48108]

you all make alot of good points. I made the mistake of buying alot of 24 mg carts from e-cig (haven't arrived yet) and am already concerned that I may be getting more nic from the 16mg carts than I did with my real ciggs although i've heard that theres only about half the nic in a 16mg drag as compared to a real cigg. I'm thinking about carrying two pen styles always, one with the 24mg stuff and one with zero. Use the o mg for constant puffing and the 24mg when I start getting irritated and need the nic. once my 24mg stuff is gone I will buy 16mg stuff for about three months, each month I will cut the nic in half by mixing it with bickfords. I figure that in 6 months the amount of nic I get will be so low that I might just try to get rid of it altogether, but even if I don't I'll just keep cutting it in half into oblivion. eventualy there will only be trace amounts anyway and at that poin t the effect will be more psychological than anything else. I also want a pipe w/ no nic, think this will me very relaxing

 

[jasondavis48108]

maybe smokers would be better off increasing coffee consumtion as they decrease nic. Only problem is that by the time I was off nic I'd be drinking ten pots of coffee a day at least. wouldn't get out of the bathroom much

 

[Mr.Darcy]

well im sleeping better and faster since i gave up cigarettes and started exclusively e-smoking-and i vape high strength constantly all day...there are too many variables to consider when talking about sleeplessness to blame it solely on nicotine,lots of things can cause it.

 

[TropicalBob]

Jason, you're on track. But think of e-smoking like this: A cigarette smoker experiences the urge to smoke about every 30 minutes. If possible, the smoker smokes, taking about 10 drags with each cigarette consumed. An e-smoker of 16mg liquid gets half the nicotine per puff, but might puff once a minute. Smoker, 20 inhalations each hour; e-smoker, 60 inhalations but half as much, so equal to 30 cigarette puffs. Oops. Nicotine intake has increased by a third.

My own solution will be like yours -- cut the strong e-liquid with home brew and taper down until I'm vaping pure extract with little or no nicotine in it. We'll see if that plays out. It terrifies me, frankly, to even think of life without a drug I've used daily since age 16.

Don't measure cartridges used. Measure puffs inhaled. How frequently are you inhaling e-vapor? That's the real measure of increasing nicotine tolerance. I know I've increased my dependence and am now thoroughly addicted to e-smoking.

 

[bishybob]

I would consider e-liquid weaker in ways to regular cigarettes.
Tobacco companies have all these additives to change the effects of nicotine on your body. Make it hit your body faster, makes it feel better when it does kick in, give you a buzz. Makes you more addicted. We all know this.

Did anyone notice e-cigarettes to be not very fulfilling at first? That should go away after a few weeks.
I remember when I tried switching to roll-your-own cigarettes for a while. At first when I smoked one I didn't feel like I just had a cigarette. It wasn't as fulfilling. I was buying the tobacco loose at a local smoke shop and it didn't have any additives.

After a few weeks this went away.

So when you're measuring milligrams of e-liquid compared to a real cigarette there would be quite a difference because of the additives.
I also bet people who smoked roll-your-own (without additives) would have an easier time switching to e-cigarettes.

Just a thought.

 

[MNZ]

Ok, here's a solution i'm working on for myself.

I'm used to smoking marlboro lights during the day, so to replace those, I'm going to buy only medium strength carts for my e-cig and e-cigarillo ... typical day for me would be cigarettes and the odd smaller sized cigar, like a white owl for example. For night time use I'm getting full strength carts to go into my e-cigar and e-pipe, I enjoy both of those now, usually a mid sized cigar like a macanudo or a montecristo No4 for example (in my humidor now), or a pipe full or two. I have three pipes I use regularly, a falcon with a small bowl, a hook peterson with silver trimmings (present) and a borkum riff big bowl pipe, I alternate between all three as I feel, actually I have alot more pipes but those would be my most used ones. I think if i'm careful i can avoid the "nic" overdosing that seems to be so easy with e-fagging

 

[TropicalBob]

Helloooo, fellow tobacco lover. I have 46 pipes and rotate their use so one isn't smoked more than once a week. Enjoyed my favorite one this morning -- with nothing but "Special" stamped on its side (I have some Savenillis and Brighams, etc) that have more clout with pipe smokers, but don't smoke as fell as my Special. I smoke the pipes for TASTE that I don't get with any combination of e-smoking so far. I use latakia-heavy tobaccos, so nicotine is not my primary consideration but lots of smoke and smoke taste is.

Love cigars, too, almost all of them, but they've gotten too expensive in the States. Even my Kahlua cigarillos have jumped about $10 a tin of 10 in the past year (and maker Drew Estate is ceasing Kahlua production).

Pipe tobacco remains incredibly cheap, however. Even the special stuff I order online for $10 will last me a month.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic ...

 

[Kit]

Helloooo, fellow tobacco lover. I have 46 pipes and rotate their use so one isn't smoked more than once a week. Enjoyed my favorite one this morning -- with nothing but "Special" stamped on its side (I have some Savenillis and Brighams, etc) that have more clout with pipe smokers, but don't smoke as fell as my Special. I smoke the pipes for TASTE that I don't get with any combination of e-smoking so far. I use latakia-heavy tobaccos, so nicotine is not my primary consideration but lots of smoke and smoke taste is.

Love cigars, too, almost all of them, but they've gotten too expensive in the States. Even my Kahlua cigarillos have jumped about $10 a tin of 10 in the past year (and maker Drew Estate is ceasing Kahlua production).

Pipe tobacco remains incredibly cheap, however. Even the special stuff I order online for $10 will last me a month.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic ...

God TB i bet your breath and house stink lol

 

[TropicalBob]

Au contraire. I do have a wife and dog, so I don't smoke tobacco indoors or in a car. That's where the e-cig is a blessing. I can e-puff away while working on the computer all day. Then I can go outside and relax under oak trees or watch the sun set while puffing a real pipe.

We did have about 3 cold days this past winter in Florida ... and I was sorely tempted to smoke my pipe indoors. But -- stiff upper lip -- I persevered.

 

[Kit]

Au contraire. I do have a wife and dog, so I don't smoke tobacco indoors or in a car. That's where the e-big is a blessing. I can e-puff away while working on the computer all day. Then I can go outside and relax under oak trees or watch the sun set while puffing a real pipe.

We did have about 3 cold days this past winter in Florida ... and I was sorely tempted to smoke my pipe indoors. But -- stiff upper lip -- I persevered.

Good on you bob takes will power me being in England i sometimes sneak one out the window :?

 

[e-girl]

I have to say, I was slightly concerned about smoking more in the beginning but in actuality I am smoking less.

I have plans to purchase a second unit to use no nicotine in - I'd do it today but I'm awaiting word on moving and need to figure out some details first.

My other half was getting upset last week as he wanted me to come down to the smoking room and only smoke my njoy there with him. There was a "bonding" time as we took regular breaks together to smoke. Now that has been going out the door.

Like you Bob, I now am taking a couple of drags here and there in front of the computer, and I love it that I don't step away so often and I get sucked back into working much quicker.

I take a few puffs, but have gotten into a quick habit of unscrewing the battery quickly and stopping. I used to smoke 100's - and I'm realizing some funny things that I forgot. For one, I initially started smoking 100's in my 20's when I was out late night at the bar drinking and playing shuffleboard - and noticed I would get a nicotine stain from smoking the shorter cigarettes. Many times, I can't even finish the 100's - and when the price of cigarettes started to sky rocket recently I would only smoke a half or 3/4 and save the large butts for emergencies or quickies - but hated doing it.

The e-cigarette is fresh every time I go to use it. I'm not looking at a segment of time - so I can use less and not feel like there is any waste. And this is strange - I am smoking LESS in car rides. I can smoke in a closed car now - but for some reason I am not.

Maybe there is a strange psychology going on with me now, but because I can smoke all over the place (where I'm living) it suddenly has become more manageable.

So, I will be testing my actual nicotine addiction/levels next. I would LOVE to see a special nicotine reduction kit of carts - but I think the makers would rather you just buy another pipe.

I have to add - Because I have not been going down to the smoking room, someone decided to buy me a pack of cigarettes (they are a bit freaked over this whole thing I think). I smoked a couple of them and the taste in my mouth was grosse. I am really smelling the smoke now in that room when he smokes and don't know if I should be down there.

 

[TropicalBob]

Without regular washes of tobacco smoke to dull them, your senses of taste and smell are returning. You bet you'll notice cigarette smoke! I can tell when a car passes if anyone inside is smoking. I walk the dog and can tell which homes on my street house smokers. Now, I don't get all hand-wavy about it, but I can detect aromas and flavors so much better now that I'm not coating my tongue and nose with acrid smoke every half-hour (yes, I'd do even better without smoking a pipe!).

Small aside: Some foods that I thought I liked, thanks to dull senses, I find I now dislike, because I can really taste them. Case in point: Dannon yogurt. As a smoker, I tasted nothing. It was just cool, bland gloop. Now I taste it .. and don't like it. Switched to tasty frozen yogurt with cultures. Much better.

 

[MNZ]

Bob, yoghurt is just rotten milk, how anyone can enjoy that crap is beyond me

 

[NerdyCinderella]

Bob, yoghurt is just rotten milk, how anyone can enjoy that crap is beyond me

 

[jimldk]

Hahah...you guys are full of ideas...and FEARS.......but still very entertaining.....

NICOTINE IS ADDICTIVE IN ANY FORM....please remember that.....fear not..fret not....just don't overdo it and you'll be fine..just need to look out for your own each inbuilt limits..everyone has one..take it in moderation and you'll stay fine....

Before the clinical trial was put on hold..none of my patients was complaining of any side effects even those who used up 10 ml of 24 mg/day e-liquids from china....I believe the actual delivery and the actual dosage from e-liquid to be much lower than projected...each burn will cut down the amount of actual nicotine dosage inhaled or else all of us will be in trouble now ..don't you think so?...trust me , I have put myself at the highest dose..close to 40 mg per ml with no side effect whatsoever..instead it makes me more sleepy towards the night..no actual insomnia( I do sleep late at time but never insomnia) and my patients also has undergone 40mg doses with no apparent problems....so please put all your fears aside...enjoy your "smoke" and have a good day and many wonderful days ahead.....

 

[jasondavis48108]

The one thing that concerns me, and I mean no disrespect to those involved, is that the two major studies about e-smoking that are being held (the one in NZ and the one in i think malasia) are both private studies that seem to be, at least in part, funded by companies which produce the product. call me crazy, but I'm very leary of any research that is funded by a company and then comes back and says thier product is so amazingly great and safe it's like a little miricle from God. I'm sure that big tobacco had studies at some poind in history which said smoking cigarettes was good for you or at least not harmful or made you better in bed or some line of crap to make folks think it was o.k. for them to smoke cigarettes. The studies make it seem as if e-smoking is lessharmful than many foods we consume. I mean live long enough and you will probably get cancer, it's called natural causes. what I want is a product that won't cause emphazema so that my quality of life, while i'm here on this earth, won't be degraded. emphazema scares the sh*t out of me, lung cancer s*cks don't get me wrong, don't particularly want to go out that way, but my grandma just died of heart disease at the age of eighty (she was a three pack a day smoker for 64 of those years), and she seemed rather content and the dieing process was quick (couple months). I think I'm ranking at this point so I'll leave it at this, there is a difference between ingesting the incredibly small amount of PG found in food and huffing down the three ml of juice I ionhale every day. What I want is a study that shows that I am not going to get PG lung in five years and have all of the same problems as that of emphezema. I don't realy care amount the ic habit, if I can kick it great, but it's more a matter of principle for me than a health concern, I don't eat fast food which means i'm going to live longer than most americans anyway.