Is it just me or.....
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Yeah, batteries are gonna die. I'm vaping pretty hard, and mine are dying in 2-3 months, but that's just regular wear and tear.
I'd recommend having bout 3 batteries max, rotating them out, and when one died, replace it.
And when I say 'dies' I mean 'stops performing well enough to use' - most of my 'dead' batteries I can still get a vape out of, but it's not up to the performance of a new battery, and doesn't last long.
I'd be thinking 6 months would be a reasonable timeframe for a PT, depending on the amount of abuse it takes.
It can be hard to find a comparison in other devices - what do you have that is rechargeable that you run flat and recharge every day? For me it's nothing. I have no cellphone, my electric trimmer I charged once a week and it dies in 2 months anyway, electric razor I charged once a week and it lasted me about 18 months. Wireless keyboard and mouse use rechargeable batteries, but I replace them perhaps once a month, and those batteries last about 2 years for me.
but scaling the use and abuse and recharges, I've decided the batteries in V4L products seem to perform better than I had expected overall (and thats about 2 months for me)
EDIT: the pcc zapping you is another issue, that's not a charging wear and tear issue.
PT depends on the amount of 'abuse' it gets, but each time you pick it up and put it down you're 'wiggling' the cord, and after long enough of that the cord will break somewhere.
the same with switches (auto or manual - although auto is more susceptible to airborne moisture)
I'd recommend having bout 3 batteries max, rotating them out, and when one died, replace it.
And when I say 'dies' I mean 'stops performing well enough to use' - most of my 'dead' batteries I can still get a vape out of, but it's not up to the performance of a new battery, and doesn't last long.
I'd be thinking 6 months would be a reasonable timeframe for a PT, depending on the amount of abuse it takes.
It can be hard to find a comparison in other devices - what do you have that is rechargeable that you run flat and recharge every day? For me it's nothing. I have no cellphone, my electric trimmer I charged once a week and it dies in 2 months anyway, electric razor I charged once a week and it lasted me about 18 months. Wireless keyboard and mouse use rechargeable batteries, but I replace them perhaps once a month, and those batteries last about 2 years for me.
but scaling the use and abuse and recharges, I've decided the batteries in V4L products seem to perform better than I had expected overall (and thats about 2 months for me)
EDIT: the pcc zapping you is another issue, that's not a charging wear and tear issue.
PT depends on the amount of 'abuse' it gets, but each time you pick it up and put it down you're 'wiggling' the cord, and after long enough of that the cord will break somewhere.
the same with switches (auto or manual - although auto is more susceptible to airborne moisture)
Good point on the cell phone. Most of my cell phone batteries start their rapid decline in performance between 6 and 8 months. And I do not work them as hard as my VK.
i know V4L is working on coming out with their own exclusive model of battery... and considering their commitment to having someone oversee prod. development, etc. (and their excellent warranty) i have no doubt that V4L will be at the forefront of better batteries...
um might be longer lasting batteries... maybe even protected, but I highly doubt V4L or anybody for that fact is going to leap forward in battery technology any time soon... so don't get your hopes up....
its the the facts of battery lifeEDIT: meaning the charge might last longer... but not necessarily the life of it
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I think if someone goes to a LiFe4PO chemistry we'll see ~ double the charge cycles and double the life per charge...
I think you should get a bit more than 3 to 5 months, even if you only have 4 batteries you are rotating, at least 6 months out of them. And if you have more batteries you are rotating, you should get a bit longer out of them. As I said in one of my other posts, I tried out 2 batts that had been sitting for 4 months plus and they work like I just got them in the mail. So letting them sit in a drawer had no ill affect on those 2, I have to assume it's the same with all of them.
What is happening to them? Are they refusing to take a charge or is it buttons failing, etc?
If you do some reading in the other forums, you will find that many of the other PVs have far shorter life than we get with V4L. I know some of the stuff I bought before I found V4L had lots of potential for failure. I was in the process of stocking up on batts & atomizers when I found V4L.
Having said that, I really do sympathize. Its still cheaper (and better for you) than smoking.
PTs are a high-failure item on all PVs. My 510 PT looked like it was made with cheap speaker wire. It had that irritating in-line battery and only worked at 3.7v.
LifePO batts are showing a lot of promise, but from what I am seeing they can't match the output of LiIon's yet. Is this something you are seeing as well?
I'm also curious what will happen in 2014 when he NiMha patents are finally lifted.
I've been a little confused by some of the battery discussions here lately. From previous research on lithium-ions (including the battery university site I think; too lazy to revisit right now ), I was under these impressions: That generally, this type of batt dies according to a time frame more so than number of uses; and that that time frame tends to be about 1.5 to 2 years; and that if the batt is not being used, one can help "preserve" it so it meets that time frame by running it down to a 40% charge and refrigerating it.
If so, that would make a little stockpiling of batts more feasible, especially since any properly stored ones would not be undergoing the heavier-than-designed-for ecig beating; and would only begin that beating once brought into play... Which could theoretically be anytime a bit in advance of the 1.5 to 2 year 'shelf life'...
I imagine that the lack of quality/quality control in the manufacture of these particular li-ions may reduce the reliability of that formula, but aside from that, is the above correct in theory/principle?
If it is and one is willing to chance it, is there any way (besides pure guesswork or expensive equipment) to determine charge percentage? I'd hoped to refrigerate a few, pretty much ignoring them except for perhaps an occasional use just to check in on them. Thanks in advance for any help clearing up my confusion!
), I was under these impressions: That generally, this type of batt dies according to a time frame more so than number of uses; and that that time frame tends to be about 1.5 to 2 years; and that if the batt is not being used, one can help "preserve" it so it meets that time frame by running it down to a 40% charge and refrigerating it.If so, that would make a little stockpiling of batts more feasible, especially since any properly stored ones would not be undergoing the heavier-than-designed-for ecig beating; and would only begin that beating once brought into play... Which could theoretically be anytime a bit in advance of the 1.5 to 2 year 'shelf life'...
I imagine that the lack of quality/quality control in the manufacture of these particular li-ions may reduce the reliability of that formula, but aside from that, is the above correct in theory/principle?
If it is and one is willing to chance it, is there any way (besides pure guesswork or expensive equipment) to determine charge percentage? I'd hoped to refrigerate a few, pretty much ignoring them except for perhaps an occasional use just to check in on them. Thanks in advance for any help clearing up my confusion!
I remember someone saying that cold was bad for these batts.I dont think I would chance storing them in the refridgerator or freezer.
Plus, isn't there a certain level of moisture/humidity in the air of the fridge? I can't see the moisture being good at all for auto batts.
Hopefully by 2014 paper batteries will have been commercialized, and we'll be using the label on the cartomizer to power them for truly disposable self contained PVs
I'd check on that, i think they like the freezer.
If your freezer is, well, freezing, then there's no moisture in the air. 0% humidity. Thats why you get chapped lips in winter, etc.
after you hit 0 any moisture in the air crystallizes (which is why freezers end up full of frost, because when you open them, humid air moves in, and when you close it, that air freezes, and all the moisture is removed and sticks to the top (usually, as warm air rises).
In any event, put it in a ziplock bag so you don't get any introduced moisture crystallizing onto them.
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Freezing the battery is a guaranteed killer. Lithium chemistries don't like being frozen.
Miss-MiA: There's a shelf-life and a use-life. use-life is dependent upon both age and number of cycles. Shelf-life is dependent upon age. So yes, you could take an unused battery and slap it on the shelf for a couple years and expect to perform like new for a period of time. If you charge/discharge cycle it, it's cycle dependent.
Darn it, Saw's post is on the other page, I need to post and then go back. [pout]
Miss-MiA: There's a shelf-life and a use-life. use-life is dependent upon both age and number of cycles. Shelf-life is dependent upon age. So yes, you could take an unused battery and slap it on the shelf for a couple years and expect to perform like new for a period of time. If you charge/discharge cycle it, it's cycle dependent.
Darn it, Saw's post is on the other page, I need to post and then go back. [pout]
I only bought my first kit a little under three weeks ago, so I'm still hashing out the equipment & carto kinks. I have one battery that craps out on me after about 15-30 minutes (yes V4L have been notified) and I've already noticed that the fully functioning batteries do not like the cold weather. (we have moisture in our cold, over yonder in NY) I've been trying to determine what the battery "life" (per day) is supposed to be by what I read on this message board, and compare it to my own experiences. My batts don't seem to last as long as the status quo seems to indicate they should. However, I am still very much in the throes of the "novelty", so I definitely take that into consideration. I don't work with computers either, so the pt is not an option at work. Ergo I spend up my auto-batts pretty quickly.
Yet I digress...still super happy with this product. If it takes a little time to hash out the kinks, so be it.
Yet I digress...still super happy with this product. If it takes a little time to hash out the kinks, so be it.
Well, "output" is a tricky thing. Their specific energy density tends to still be a little lower than our LiCoO2, but their cycle and calender lives are about double. So within a couple months, the LiFePO4 battery will actually have a similar specific energy density, and it just starts to favor it more and more there. Out much past a year or a few hundred charge cycles, it starts to look like a classic power-curve favoring the LiFePO4
That can also be made-up by using a little more LiFePO4 - ie. it weighs a little more.
They (LiFePO4) also have greater current and peak power ratings than LiCoO2 - which is particularly important in our application.
The downsides: They don't like being deep-cycled for the first 20-30 cycles, so they should probably be pre-conditioned by the manufacturer or reseller (or by the hobbyist). They don't like being rapid charged (but then neither does LiCoO2)
Discharge rate is at close to parity now with most quality manufacturers.
Costs should be much lower on the LiFePO4 once the buzz has worn down. Iron is a crudload cheaper than Cobolt.
That can also be made-up by using a little more LiFePO4 - ie. it weighs a little more.
They (LiFePO4) also have greater current and peak power ratings than LiCoO2 - which is particularly important in our application.
The downsides: They don't like being deep-cycled for the first 20-30 cycles, so they should probably be pre-conditioned by the manufacturer or reseller (or by the hobbyist). They don't like being rapid charged (but then neither does LiCoO2)
Discharge rate is at close to parity now with most quality manufacturers.
Costs should be much lower on the LiFePO4 once the buzz has worn down. Iron is a crudload cheaper than Cobolt.
Boy, lotta subjects going on here! As to the functional/performance one... Two out of four wall chargers I received between approx. late November and late December have a problem where their light always stays green, on all batts (which definitely need charges and do accept them from a different charger). Both of the malfunctioning ones did work properly for at least the first use, but then began either staying green upon batt insertion, or turning from red to green within minutes of insertion. (One of these was a replacement due to the same problem.) Multiple reinsertions, re-pluggings and a good bit of knocking and rattling them around haven't helped.
I was thinking about starting a thread to ask if anyone else was having that prob, since 50% within a few weeks seems high... but maybe I've just been unlucky. :-( Anyway, I hate to mention this again on my next order, but... our wall chargers be miiiiiiighty precious!! I won't sleep well til I have a total of three functional ones lol.
I was thinking about starting a thread to ask if anyone else was having that prob, since 50% within a few weeks seems high... but maybe I've just been unlucky. :-( Anyway, I hate to mention this again on my next order, but... our wall chargers be miiiiiiighty precious!! I won't sleep well til I have a total of three functional ones lol.
Well, "output" is a tricky thing. Their specific energy density tends to still be a little lower than our LiCoO2, but their cycle and calender lives are about double. So within a couple months, the LiFePO4 battery will actually have a similar specific energy density, and it just starts to favor it more and more there. Out much past a year or a few hundred charge cycles, it starts to look like a classic power-curve favoring the LiFePO4
That can also be made-up by using a little more LiFePO4 - ie. it weighs a little more.
They (LiFePO4) also have greater current and peak power ratings than LiCoO2 - which is particularly important in our application.
The downsides: They don't like being deep-cycled for the first 20-30 cycles, so they should probably be pre-conditioned by the manufacturer or reseller (or by the hobbyist). They don't like being rapid charged (but then neither does LiCoO2)
Discharge rate is at close to parity now with most quality manufacturers.
Costs should be much lower on the LiFePO4 once the buzz has worn down. Iron is a crudload cheaper than Cobolt.
Not to argue, I just want to understand a bit better. As I have said. flashlights have been another love of mine, so I am pretty aware of that aspect of batteries, more than that, I am a lot lost.
That being said, from AW:
AW P18650 - 26 SPECIFICATIONS:
Constant Voltage : 3.7V
Capacity : 2600mAH ( rated at 0.2C discharge 4.2V - 2.8V @ 25℃ )
Operating Temp. : Charge 0 to 45℃ / Discharge -20 to 60 ℃
Max. Charge Rate : 2.6A ( ambient temp. 25 ℃ )
Max. Discharge Rate : 5.2A ( ambient temp. 25 ℃ )
Dimensions :18.52 X 68.16mm ( +/- 0.3mm )
Price : $14.75 each
That is LiIon.
Then:
IMR18650 Specifications :
Nominal Voltage : 3.7V
Capacity : 1600mAH
Lowest Discharge Voltage : 2.50V
Standard Charge : CC/CV ( max. charging rate 4.5A )
Cycle Life : > 500 cycles
Max. continuous discharge rate : 10C
Operating Discharge Temperature : -10 - 60 Degree Celsius $12.00each
LiPo.
Huge difference in capacity.
Sources:
AW's LiIon Batteries Sales Thread *Part 11* - CPFMarketPlace
IMR16340 / IMR18500 / IMR18650 / IMR26500 *Part 2* - CPFMarketPlace
Please explain what I am missing, thank you!
If you're having problems with your batteries in the cold, there is another option. It costs more, but will solve the problem and allow you to use a PT at work, without a computer or AC power.
NEW Kensington 38021 Portable Power Pack K38021US - eBay (item 380165794300 end time Dec-20-09 15:41:29 PST)
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