Is it safe to use an unprotected battery?

[apaul]

I wanted to add time between charges to my e-cigarette without building a full-blown mod so I simply added the ego battery connector and electronics to a blue ultrafire 18650 and I've been charging it with the wall charger meant for an ego battery. Is this safe? Will the thing blow up eventually? I've checked the output and its a steady 4.1 volts and the charger also turns off when its charged just as if it were a regular ego battery so I'm guessing overcharge wouldn't be an issue but, I haven't fully discharged it yet, mostly because it's a giant battery. Any insight anybody?

P.S. it's lasted me two full days at this point without a charge haha

 

[yzer]

It depends on how safe you want to be.

I would not use an unprotected Li-ion (ICR) battery with any appliance. A protected Li-ion 18650 will cost you a few pennies more.

Likewise, I would not rely on a jury-rigged charger for long when single and multi-cell Li-ion chargers for cylindrical batteries are plentiful and inexpensive. I'd make a modest investment in a YL-103A, Trustfire TR-001 or TR-003P4 charger.

 

[apaul]

Thanks yzer

Doesn't the ego battery chip have some kind of over-charge and over-discharge protection built into it? I have a charger, but I was thinking of just using this as a kind of unit like you would a standard ego battery. Basically I took a standard ego battery and put a bigger cell in it. All the other parts are the same save for the case.

 

[SubSplat]

Those things can explode, vent flame, and release toxic gases and chemicals if mistreated.

Is it really worth the risk?

Edit: When people talk of "protected" batteries, they're talking about protection circuits built right into the ICR batteries. Some switches have additional fail-safes, yes, but that's different.

 

[dearme]

I would only use a protected battery or one with safe chemistry like the AW IMR.

 

[apaul]

Listen. My question is whether or not you can rely on the protection chip already included in the ego battery setup to protect against over-discharge of an otherwise unprotected 18650.

P.S. I can read the sticky just as well as the next guy so please, people, read the post

 

[DaveP]

Ecig switches (some of them) have protection circuits that shut the battery off when excessive current draw or heat trips them. Thermal runaway leads to excessive pressure and spewing, which sometimes results in the case of the battery exploding. Li-Ion batteries are nothing to play with.

You absolutely want to use a charger that is designed for the batteries you have. Google "charger 18560" and you will find an assortment of chargers, generally for under $25.

This one is popular.
Amazon.com: Trustfire Multifunctional Universal Lithium Ion Rechargeable Battery Charger for CR123A, 16340, 14500, 10400, or 18650: Camera & Photo

You might also want to read this article.
Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries

 

[apaul]

Those things can explode, vent flame, and release toxic gases and chemicals if mistreated.

Is it really worth the risk?

Edit: When people talk of "protected" batteries, they're talking about protection circuits built right into the ICR batteries. Some switches have additional fail-safes, yes, but that's different.

The original cell itself has no such "built in" circuit. How is it different other than being tailored to that specific battery, which really makes it no different at all?

 

[apaul]

Well that's what I mean. See a standard ego battery switch turns off when the current drops off or gets too high e.g. it flashes and stops supplying current to the carto/atomizer etc. or it flashes and stops charging. The safe operating ranges are the same for the two cells so how is replacing it with a bigger one dangerous? Again, I have chargers for this specific battery, but I wanted to build a bigger ego battery that would function the same way as the old with the same ease(screw off the carto and on to the wall charger).

 

[denali_41]

sounds like you just took modding one step further,,good thinking

if your concerned about it while charging ?? there are explo-safe bags around for a few bucks

 

[yzer]

That built-in safety circuitry in the switch may not protect against internal or external shorts of the battery.

IMR batteries (like AW brand, among many others) have inherently "safer" chemistry but can overheat dangerously with external short circuits. IMR batteries have less capacity per size than ICR batteries.

The more common Li-ion batteries are ICR batteries. The chemistry is different from IMR batteries. The "safer" ICR is called a protected battery and has electronic protection circuits built-in against internal and external battery short circuits, over or under charge, and over discharge. They also have construction features to allow venting and to prevent fire or explosion during malfunctions.

There are plenty of mods around that use larger batteries (14500, 14650, 16350, 18650) that are changed out for charging like flashlight batteries. Your idea for a mod is a bit different, and interesting.

 

[apaul]

sounds like you just took modding one step further,,good thinking

if your concerned about it while charging ?? there are explo-safe bags around for a few bucks

haha ive been charging it out of doors. But, in seriousness, it charges fine and stops charging just like a normal ego battery does. What I'm really worried about is over discharging it and having it explode, but I guess we will just have to see. Other than this concern about safety the thing is awesome. It charges pretty quick and makes my dual coil carto really nice to use. Tons of vapor and it stays nice and hot.

 

[apaul]

Yeah I have no idea about internal shorts. Externally its solid, but I guess I'll just have to see. How realistic is the possibility of a catastrophic failure? Are we talking like two face burns and missing digits or like a little smoke and fire?

 

[yzer]

Worst case... you might need reconstructive surgery and dental implants.

 

[classwife]

Moved this to the Modding Forum

 

[Trucapri]

Yeah I have no idea about internal shorts. Externally its solid, but I guess I'll just have to see. How realistic is the possibility of a catastrophic failure? Are we talking like two face burns and missing digits or like a little smoke and fire?

I would imagine you'd have to be just as prepared as you would if you put gasoline in a Zippo.

 

[Nic-holio]

I would imagine you'd have to be just as prepared as you would if you put gasoline in a Zippo.

Haha!

True. Well OP if it turns out your experiment doesn't go so well, there are some manufactured eGo 18650 mods out there. I've had my Joyetech one for about a week now and am pretty happy with it. Ability to charge it with an eGo USB charger cable is a feature, though I don't plan on using that unless both of the cells I am carrying with me are dead. Hasn't happened yet. I did a review on it also if you're interested. If you're just tinkering mainly well I can understand the curiousity factor and all.

 

[deach]

Worst case... you might need reconstructive surgery and dental implants.

This says it all.

 

[Rocketman]

The 450 ma eGo charger is quite capable of charging an 18650 cell. The charger has an upper voltage cut off that works for thousands of eGos (and clones) from 600mah to 1300mah. Combine this with the low voltage cutoff of about 3.2 volts of the eGo circuit and over current/short circuit protection on the board (that even bothers some folks that like to vape low resistance)and you have all the protection points of a protected cell. Repeatedly taking a mod apart and putting a Li-ion battery (with a thin plastic wrapper) in the charger, then back in the mod every day is one way to induce "user damage" and a good way to short out a battery. Charging through the vape port eliminates several human contacts.

If your construction method protects against shorts to the shell of the cell, and uses proper wiring methods to prevent shorted wiring you have added all the features of a "protected cell" with your "cell + Circuit board" combination. Even the highly touted AW protected Li-ion cell is just a Li-ion cell with a protection board added.

Using an IMR High current 18650 with an eGo circuit board is sort of like dropping a 427 into a Vega. It fits. But the current trip of the eGo board sort of under utilizes the LMR cell.

One thing many modders forget is to design the mod to have a weak spot. The end plug on the factory ego "should" blow out before the switch end comes off in your mouth. Sometimes the switch end works loose from rough handling (wut, I didden do nuthin).
An eGo, or ANY METAL E-CIG that has a FACE end that is weaker than the .... end is dangerous. Vents, and/or a weak bottom plug are necessary for safety.
Done properly you will have the vaping capability of a eGo but much longer battery life.

Making big battery mods requires some knowledge of the potential failure modes. Read and learn. Be safe, have fun.

 

[apaul]

You mean instead of the naptha that you do put in one? The naptha that is relatively more flammable in lower concentrations and has a lower auto ignition point than gasoline?