Is it time for re-branding?

[stevegmu]

While moderately clever, and you don't have to explain how to pronounce it like a previous poster's "BOVD", it won't work.

First of all, it leaves out a huge chunk of PV users that use 0 nicotine. Secondly, it leaves out what I believe to be one of the best aspects of the whole enchilada : vapor. Not only is the word "vapor" a cooler word than most, the playing with the vapor, whether using it as a breathing controlled delivery of nicotine, or as a way of blowing out Smaug sized clouds, "vapor" is the central truth of what is going on. And thirdly, it reminds people of nicotine. Nicotine, for good or ill, and ironically, does not have a glowing reputation.

I don't know even about PV. I mean, sure, you don't want some stranger sucking down on your vape gear, but is it necessary to stress the "personal", isn't that sort of implied when you arrived with it, (the PV) perhaps even holding it? Isn't that like screaming "Mine!"?

Why not try to co-opt a letter of the alphabet to be associated with it for ever?

Why not when someone asks what it is, you reply, " My V, ... My V, my vaporizor.


Or not,

Seems my ideas are equally dumb.

Call it what you want, Shakespeare, the rose, and any other name stuff, ... Out.

E-nic is what Czechs in Prague actually call electronic cigarettes... They call my ProVari an electric cigar...
I tell people it is the future of smoking...

 

[The Cloud Minder]

I do wish the people who think starting this thread topic for the 1,247th time would do some basic searching on ECF, find it's already been discussed to death and goes nowhere, and ends with the thread doing a death spiral crash and burn.

So you didn't actually NEED to show up and post that then, since it's going to crash anyhow, right?

Are you on the take?

Do you work for some "Save the Threads" foundation.

Is this another intervention?

 

[cafecraig]

How about this: when "mobile phones" first appeared, they actually communicated via radio, and there was some kind of technology involved that used "cell" or "cellular" in the name. That technology hasn't been used for them in DECADES, but guess what we still call them...

...cell phones?

A group may decide to call something a new name; the entire technology behind that something may change to something completely different... but people are still going to call them what they will. I haven't had a "landline" phone in many years, but because my phone is connected to my house, people still call it a "landline" not a "VOIP" phone.

Andria

No arguments with any of that. The only difference being that consolidation of cellular technology did not cause the virtual death of the cell phone, or severely hamper innovation within the category. With e-cigarettes, that's not the case. If you want to hand over the whole Vapor Product category to BT, then sure, keep aligning our products - and by association, our interests - with theirs. Our supplier forum will just dwindle that much faster.

 

[AndriaD]

No arguments with any of that. The only difference being that consolidation of cellular technology did not cause the virtual death of the cell phone, or severely hamper innovation within the category. With e-cigarettes, that's not the case. If you want to hand over the whole Vapor Product category to BT, then sure, keep aligning our products - and by association, our interests - with theirs. Our supplier forum will just dwindle that much faster.

Well I personally think you're 100% right, and the name is lamentable. But there's not much that can be done at this point. Everytime I've been asked about my mod out in public, the question is always something like: "Is that one of those e-cigarette things?" Because the name conveys the intent: to do something resembling smoking a cigarette, without smoking a cigarette. The resemblance is greater or lesser depending on the type of device, but the intent is the same. The true irony is that the devices which PERFORM (in terms of satisfaction to the user) the most like a cigarette, look the least like them. I generally try to convey this truth to those who ask, and the opposite of that truth, that the devices that look the most like cigarettes, actually perform the least like them... but I'm not sure anyone is really listening, UNLESS they are, for themselves or a loved one, actually interested in getting one.

Andria

 

[shgilman]

Rickajo,
I am sorry if you find this thread meaningless or repetitive. If that is the case, may I suggest that you take your forum cruising to another venue and allow the discussion to continue and/or endorse the exchange of ideas and thoughts, no matter how boring you may find it.
Evidently, we are just not as smart as you, and we, (the voices and thoughts of us fellow members who find this thread relevant) apologize for this shortcoming.
The choice is,. of course always yours.
Respectfully,

 

[LMS62]

Perception is everything. Let's say you are not a vapor, and are not educated in the least when it comes vaping (as many people are). The only thing you might know about vaping is what you have possibly heard via the media (which is usually not good). You don't know where you stand on the issue of public vaping, vaping indoors, etc, because you have heard that it is just like smoking. As vapors, we want the people like this to understand that it is not smoking, it is not tobacco, and as far as we know, 2nd hand inhalation is not dangerous as is cigarette smoke....but while we are trying desparately to differentiate vaping from smoking cigarettes, as an industry we continue to refer to our devices as e-cigarettes, and many vapors (I have seen it multiple times on this site) refer to the emitted vapor as "smoke". This is where the perception and confusion comes in.

 

[cafecraig]

Well I personally think you're 100% right, and the name is lamentable. But there's not much that can be done at this point. Everytime I've been asked about my mod out in public, the question is always something like: "Is that one of those e-cigarette things?" Because the name conveys the intent: to do something resembling smoking a cigarette, without smoking a cigarette. The resemblance is greater or lesser depending on the type of device, but the intent is the same. The true irony is that the devices which PERFORM (in terms of satisfaction to the user) the most like a cigarette, look the least like them. I generally try to convey this truth to those who ask, and the opposite of that truth, that the devices that look the most like cigarettes, actually perform the least like them... but I'm not sure anyone is really listening, UNLESS they are, for themselves or a loved one, actually interested in getting one.

Andria

Yes, that's true - it is something of an apparent self-contradiction in that regard. And all non-vapers who have already made the association between an "e-cigarette" and an APV/mod/open system are somewhat already "water under the bridge," in terms of trying to change their perception that a BT product is an "e-cigarette," but the things we use are "vapes" or "APVs" or Vaporizers, aka Vapor products.

Even though BT and BP are halfway through the door, and once they get inside, it will likely take the courts to get them evicted, I still instinctively want to keep trying to push them back out before we have to call in the legal system.

Even if for no other reason than setting the perception of the non-aware general public who might still be correctly educated about our philosophy and goals, versus those of BT, BP and BG.

 

[AndriaD]

Yes, that's true - it is something of an apparent self-contradiction in that regard. And all non-vapers who have already made the association between an "e-cigarette" and an APV/mod/open system is somewhat already "water under the bridge," in terms of trying to change their perception of what a BT product is versus the non-BT offerings.

Even though BT and BP are halfway through the door, and once they get inside, it will likely take the courts to get them evicted, I still instinctively want to keep trying to push them back out before we have to call in the legal system.

Well as I said, I do agree, and I'll do anything I can to help non-vapers understand that 'what you see' is not necessarily what you get. I just don't know how effective any of it will be; a few or a few thousand "in the know" people trying to contradict the entire mass media, who clearly are just bought and sold, not actually reporting "news." I don't know how effective it is to make a big noise about all this on Twitter either, or trying to "join up" with a whole bunch of fellow vapers... but it's like chicken soup, I guess: "can't hoit."

Andria

PS: and in the interest of helping non-vapers understand that vaping is NOT the same as smoking, I disagree with a blanket 'don't vape where you can't smoke.' I think it's situational; outdoors, vape away. Indoors? It really depends on the venue. The reason stealth vaping is POSSIBLE is because it doesn't stink. I might take a hit or two in Walmart, if there's no one around. I would not vape in my bank, because I'm there to do some important business, and being asked to leave, if they object, would not serve my interests, and arguing with them about it would do no good either, waste my time and theirs, and not get my business done. Also banks are a bad place to bring out some unfamiliar metal object. I can either wait, or I can use the drive-thru window. I think only infants think the world is always black or white -- grownups understand discretion and good judgment.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

I've heard tell of someone here on ECF referring to his device as his Personal Electronic Nicotine Inhalation System.

Made me feel envy.

Four pages before PENIS came up. You "older" guys are slipping. Anybody that is giving you a bad time, hold your vape up to them and tell them it your PENIS. Guaranteed they will back off and leave you alone.

Call it whatever you want, just make sure you use "common" language if someone approaches you wishing to learn more about it. No point in putting them off with a bunch of lingo they won't understand right off the bat.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Well as I said, I do agree, and I'll do anything I can to help non-vapers understand that 'what you see' is not necessarily what you get. I just don't know how effective any of it will be; a few or a few thousand "in the know" people trying to contradict the entire mass media, who clearly are just bought and sold, not actually reporting "news." I don't know how effective it is to make a big noise about all this on Twitter either, or trying to "join up" with a whole bunch of fellow vapers... but it's like chicken soup, I guess: "can't hoit."

Andria

PS: and in the interest of helping non-vapers understand that vaping is NOT the same as smoking, I disagree with a blanket 'don't vape where you can't smoke.' I think it's situational; outdoors, vape away. Indoors? It really depends on the venue. The reason stealth vaping is POSSIBLE is because it doesn't stink. I might take a hit or two in Walmart, if there's no one around. I would not vape in my bank, because I'm there to do some important business, and being asked to leave, if they object, would not serve my interests, and arguing with them about it would do no good either, waste my time and theirs, and not get my business done. Also banks are a bad place to bring out some unfamiliar metal object. I can either wait, or I can use the drive-thru window. I think only infants think the world is always black or white -- grownups understand discretion and good judgment.

That's the longest disclaimer I've read to date and I've written a few doozies.

 

[sub4me]

The new way to smoke is a slogan I see often so calling it a e cig doesn't bother me.

 

[Buster282]

e vape

 

[Auntie Mame]

"... I think only infants think the world is always black or white -- grownups understand discretion and good judgment." From your lips to God's ears, Andria D! I know far too many who are of an age to be considered an adult who lack not only discretion and good judgement but common sense as well.

 

[Krashman Von Stinkputin]

Four pages before PENIS came up. You "older" guys are slipping. Anybody that is giving you a bad time, hold your vape up to them and tell them it your PENIS. Guaranteed they will back off and leave you alone.

.

Thank you.
That's exactly what I tell people I've got in my mouth and then ask if they'd like to try.

 

[AndriaD]

"... I think only infants think the world is always black or white -- grownups understand discretion and good judgment." From your lips to God's ears, Andria D! I know far too many who are of an age to be considered an adult who lack not only discretion and good judgement but common sense as well.

Unfortunately, all too true -- I think it's that schools no longer teach any kind of actual *thinking*, nevermind *critical thinking*, they just teach how to pass tests. Just say to someone, "Now, think about it..." and they'll groan and whine like you just asked them to dig a 12 ft trench with their teeth.

But, it's also true that good judgment is very much something you learn from having previously had *bad* judgment At least I've found that to be true in my own life -- I've tried very hard to learn from my mistakes -- to err is human; to repeat the same error is either completely insane, or just stupid as the day is long.

I think it's this tendency to shun any kind of thinking that is responsible for wanting things in black or white, with no gray areas that need to be thought about; it's why so many seem to want the FDA's "regulation," and look for silly things like rules about where it's permissible to vape or not vape -- so they don't have to use any kind of judgment of their own, about whether someplace is a good place to vape or not. Maybe they're just not capable of exercising that kind of judgment; they were never taught how, or learned it on their own.

Andria

 

[DrMA]

Since the ivory towers are really keen on their abusive acronym, "ENDS", I'm considering salvaging this term and redefining it as a recursion: ENDS (is) Not Dying (of) Smoking.

 

[AndriaD]

That's the longest disclaimer I've read to date and I've written a few doozies.

Hmm... I admit I'm puzzled with this msg. It's entirely possible I'm just being dense. But I just felt the need to throw that out there; all these folks with their 'don't smoke where you can't vape' just seem thoroughly brainwashed by the ANTZ; "if it looks like smoking, well then it must BE smoking, so don't do it, you might offend someone". I mean... HUH?!? My ENTIRE point in starting to investigate e-cigs at the beginning was so that I could satisfy my habit without having to go outside to do it -- it was winter, the coldest winter in ATL in over 30 yrs, and that crap got OLD! AND COLD!!! And I'll readily concede, there definitely are places where vaping is probably not the best idea -- my example of the bank being a perfect example, but there are a lot of others -- but that does not necessarily mean that EVERY place where you can't smoke is unsuitable for vaping -- my home, my non-smoking COPD parents' home, my non-smoking aunt's home -- I vape in all those places, and I hadn't smoked in any of them in nearly 20 yrs. I told my mom (who has COPD) that if the vapor bothered her, I'd be more than happy to take it outside, but she insisted that it not only didn't smell bad, it really didn't smell like much of anything, to her -- she has absolutely zero problem with it in her house, including the day I spent 4 hrs with her in her closet, rearranging all her clothes so she can reach them more easily from her wheelchair. If I could spend 4 hrs vaping inside the closet of a person with COPD, with that person in the closet with me, and that person had ZERO problems with the smell or the fact of the vapor itself -- then anyone else who might complain about it just because "it looks like smoking," is nothing but a whining 2 yr old crybaby. I refuse to be dictated to by a whining 2 yr old crybaby.

Andria

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Hmm... I admit I'm puzzled with this msg. It's entirely possible I'm just being dense. But I just felt the need to throw that out there; all these folks with their 'don't smoke where you can't vape' just seem thoroughly brainwashed by the ANTZ; "if it looks like smoking, well then it must BE smoking, so don't do it, you might offend someone". I mean... HUH?!? My ENTIRE point in starting to investigate e-cigs at the beginning was so that I could satisfy my habit without having to go outside to do it -- it was winter, the coldest winter in ATL in over 30 yrs, and that crap got OLD! AND COLD!!! And I'll readily concede, there definitely are places where vaping is probably not the best idea -- my example of the bank being a perfect example, but there are a lot of others -- but that does not necessarily mean that EVERY place where you can't smoke is unsuitable for vaping -- my home, my non-smoking COPD parents' home, my non-smoking aunt's home -- I vape in all those places, and I hadn't smoked in any of them in nearly 20 yrs. I told my mom (who has COPD) that if the vapor bothered her, I'd be more than happy to take it outside, but she insisted that it not only didn't smell bad, it really didn't smell like much of anything, to her -- she has absolutely zero problem with it in her house, including the day I spent 4 hrs with her in her closet, rearranging all her clothes so she can reach them more easily from her wheelchair. If I could spend 4 hrs vaping inside the closet of a person with COPD, with that person in the closet with me, and that person had ZERO problems with the smell or the fact of the vapor itself -- then anyone else who might complain about it just because "it looks like smoking," is nothing but a whining 2 yr old crybaby. I refuse to be dictated to by a whining 2 yr old crybaby.

Andria

Andria, sorry, it's my bad sense of humor. I just meant that I've often written long paragraphs in an (usually fruitless) attempt to make sure no one thinks I'm trying dis something they said, just that I don't totally agree with them. Really need to work on my internet communication skills. Wasn't dissing or disagreeing with anything you said at all. And to boot, I misread part of it. Hazards of trying to keep up with several fast moving threads. My humble apologies.

 

[shgilman]

Where I am from we have wholesale cigarette stores and everyone says I'm going to the cigarette store.

I have never heard anyone say I'm going to the e-cigarette store.

We know what we do so who cares what others call them?

I think it is very important. We need to educate the general public, (rather re-educate them) that is essence our devices do not resemble an "e cigarette".

 

[KettleGirl]

I agree that E-cigarette is the appropriate term for helping people understand the switch and the differences between the two. Yes, there's been controversy about e-cigarettes. --<snip>-- The list is endless, but it opens up a conversational pathway to impart the truth to those who ask those questions and make the groundless accusations.

A logical point, but it rests on a faulty premise - that being the premise that most people think rationally. But they don't. Not just about this issue - any issue.

Accepting a terminology that sets people's emotional associations against you in order to open a dialogue so as to impart facts and logic is a strategy that will only work in a world very different from our own because people who base their decisions on facts and logic are (very sadly) few and far between.