Beautifully phrased, Altitude ...I agree with you on this wholeheartedly!
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Is it time for us to come together yet?
- Thread starter Fir3b1rd
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I can't answer why CASAA doesn't have the membership it should.
I haven't watched the YouTube video, so I can't answer to that, either.
I CAN speak to petition. Have you read it? It's not so much that it IS, but how it's worded (poor grammar and spelling, poor sentence structure, etc.) and WHAT it says. Most of it isn't true - or at least isn't substantiated. The very first line says the FDA "has" imposed new regulations. No, it hasn't. The FDA as "proposed" new regulations. It's just bad. The more signatures it gets, the worse we look. Uneducated. Uninformed. Unsophisticated.
Not every story on casaa's website is grammatically perfect either. At least this man DID something...that more than proves the fact that we all COULD stand behind someone if we knew WHO that person was!
Why don't YOU write a petition?? ..........Anyone?
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Why don't YOU write a petition?? ..........Anyone?
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I don't have all the facts and the scientific data to back up what I "believe." I don't know what the FDA's 241-page document really means. I don't know what they're looking for. I don't know the ins and outs of the commenting process and the 2-year period after that. I don't know what political games are being played and by whom.
DO YOU ????? If so, PLEASE clue the rest of us in before we embarrass the entire vaping community.
What we need is a real course of action. I've seen a ton of posts/blogs in the last 24 hours talking about all standing together, but all the togetherness in the world isn't going to keep the government from running roughshod over us. The petitions on Whitehouse.gov are nothing more than a diversionary tactic; they let the people think they have a say, and then the government just ignores it and does whatever they want. All the letter writing and tweeting politicians hasn't stopped this from coming about. They don't care what we think or what's good for the public, they care about where the money comes from.
We need something serious that will make people stand up and take notice, like a million vaper march on Washington maybe. Something to expose the corruption and money trail behind this regulation crap and combat all the manufactured negative press that is convincing the general public to take all this lying down.
I'm ready to get (figuratively) militant on this issue.
*grabs torch and pitchfork*
We need something serious that will make people stand up and take notice, like a million vaper march on Washington maybe. Something to expose the corruption and money trail behind this regulation crap and combat all the manufactured negative press that is convincing the general public to take all this lying down.
I'm ready to get (figuratively) militant on this issue.
*grabs torch and pitchfork*
Guys if we argue amongst ourselves we are letting the Anti vaping groups win. There is always someone willing to jump in and widen the cracks in our community.
If the petition doe snot meet your standards don't sign it. If you agree with it then sign it. It is a personal choice. Bickering on an online forum just gives opportunities to our opposition.
As for CASAA (and this is personal opinion), I strongly suspect they have lawyers going over the document and are not going to make a statement until they are certain that all possible implications have been ferreted out. Unlike commentators like Grimm Green CASAA has an obligation to a higher standard.
If the petition doe snot meet your standards don't sign it. If you agree with it then sign it. It is a personal choice. Bickering on an online forum just gives opportunities to our opposition.
As for CASAA (and this is personal opinion), I strongly suspect they have lawyers going over the document and are not going to make a statement until they are certain that all possible implications have been ferreted out. Unlike commentators like Grimm Green CASAA has an obligation to a higher standard.
The FDA Proposal is 241 pages long and was released YESTERDAY morning. My guess is the petition and most of the "early responders" either have not read it, or read it so fast that they probably didn't understand what it was really saying. CASSA is probably taking longer to respond because they want to do PROPER analysis to determine the best and most efficient way to respond to it. Remember we have 75 days to make a case to the FDA, so it doesn't need to be done instantly.
A knee jerk reaction is not going to make us look good, and is more likely to hurt us more than help us. JMHO.
You are right all vapors need to hang together or hang alone
As an example i smoked pipe for years
Pipe smokers look down on ciggie smokers because pipe smoking is healthier than ciggies
When the govt decided to really tax ciggies pipe smokers sat back and said thats not us they will never ban or tax pipe tobacco like that lol
The govt did it now pipe tobacco is way more expensive so now pipe smokers are in the same catagory as ciggie smokers
Vapeing has been put in the same catagory as ciggies and pipe tobacco
it is a tobacco product according to the FDA
So the way I see it the fight involves anyone that has an enjoyment vapeing you will stick together and fight together or you will wind up as ciggie and pipe smokers have
A lot of bans and huge taxes on what you use
As an example i smoked pipe for years
Pipe smokers look down on ciggie smokers because pipe smoking is healthier than ciggies
When the govt decided to really tax ciggies pipe smokers sat back and said thats not us they will never ban or tax pipe tobacco like that lol
The govt did it now pipe tobacco is way more expensive so now pipe smokers are in the same catagory as ciggie smokers
Vapeing has been put in the same catagory as ciggies and pipe tobacco
it is a tobacco product according to the FDA
So the way I see it the fight involves anyone that has an enjoyment vapeing you will stick together and fight together or you will wind up as ciggie and pipe smokers have
A lot of bans and huge taxes on what you use
That's what I'm screaming but allot of us as vapors seem to not care or are too concerned with being Better than a vapor that doesn't vape the way they do.
Who cares? Fun banter is one thing but why not put that energy towars educating the people who are ready to tax your vape goods? So we should all start stocking product eventually that stock is gonna run out or you'll forget to stock something and have to pay twice as much for the same thing so that Uncle Sam can get his pound of flesh.
It doesn't have to come to that if people would just come together.
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Who cares? Fun banter is one thing but why not put that energy towars educating the people who are ready to tax your vape goods? So we should all start stocking product eventually that stock is gonna run out or you'll forget to stock something and have to pay twice as much for the same thing so that Uncle Sam can get his pound of flesh.
It doesn't have to come to that if people would just come together.
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Joining CASAA is a very good thing. They do a lot for us, but, they can do more with more support.
The one thing that our opponents have done very well is to change public opinion. Writing our individual story and sending it to the Opinions/Editorial (OP/ED) editor of our local paper puts it out to the people to see where we were, what we did, and the results. People like reading about success. Reach the people.
The one thing that our opponents have done very well is to change public opinion. Writing our individual story and sending it to the Opinions/Editorial (OP/ED) editor of our local paper puts it out to the people to see where we were, what we did, and the results. People like reading about success. Reach the people.
The regulations aren't finalized but we're supposed to trust an agency (FDA) that has already tried to destroy the industry in it's entirety. They just say, help us develop some "red tape" to tie the entire industry into, the courts won't let us do what we wanted....
"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you" --- be afraid, be very afraid...
But, but we need regulations to keep vaping safe, some regulations are good.....
No one under 18 can buy vape equipment....yup, no one under 18 can buy analog cigarettes, that's worked well. So how many vapers actually started smoking after they turned 18. Force teens to smoke until they are old enough to vape....
Child-proof caps on everything....they are unnecessary and annoying, for users who don't ever have children in the house, they don't seal or open very well....
But we need e-liquid labeled so we know what's in it....read the label on a FDA approved label on a Twinkie and tell me you actually know what's in it.....
Chantix is FDA approved and recommended, it's so good and so safe, we should include a concealed carry permit with each prescription....
/Rant off ....
"I'm from the government, and I'm here to help you" --- be afraid, be very afraid...
But, but we need regulations to keep vaping safe, some regulations are good.....
No one under 18 can buy vape equipment....yup, no one under 18 can buy analog cigarettes, that's worked well. So how many vapers actually started smoking after they turned 18. Force teens to smoke until they are old enough to vape....
Child-proof caps on everything....they are unnecessary and annoying, for users who don't ever have children in the house, they don't seal or open very well....
But we need e-liquid labeled so we know what's in it....read the label on a FDA approved label on a Twinkie and tell me you actually know what's in it.....
Chantix is FDA approved and recommended, it's so good and so safe, we should include a concealed carry permit with each prescription....
/Rant off ....
I wish this community could come together in a positive way, but I don’t think that’s going to happen. We already have tarnished our reputation with our blatant rudeness in public vaping, even to the point of threats of violence to anyone who has a problem with us vaping in public. It seems to me like this forum even allows this type of behavior. I was crucified on at least one thread for expressing my opinion that people should be considerate and polite when it comes to public vaping, and I think even one or two moderators were among the lynch mob. If we can’t even police ourselves, how in the hell are we going to stand together as one, let alone stand a chance negotiating with the FDA (or anyone else for that matter).
I personally think the FDA is doing their job (and actually being more lenient than I thought they would), but there are so many people here that think this is just a government plot to insure that no one will make any money except for the tobacco and drug companies, that we wouldn’t be able to stand together in that regard either, so again, no fighting chance there.
I don’t think we have any community standards. Everything has just run amuck. There are too many wrong things that no one is doing anything about. We are going to wind up being our own downfall, and wind up blaming everyone but ourselves, because we don’t even sees it.
I called someone an idiot on a thread yesterday and am sorry about it. Things got a little heated, and the thread was closed before I got a chance to apologize. I got a PM warning about it, but after this post has been read there is a good chance I may be banned from this forum. Even though I am not insulting anyone, my opinion may rub someone the wrong way who has the power to ban me, and if that’s the case, maybe I don’t belong here then.
I will get by with the knowledge that I have gained here, and I thank the “nice” people here (of which there are many) for the help they have given me along the way.
I am a very passive person who likes to do things the right way (but I make mistakes just like everybody else), but having served in the military, I feel compelled to say something when I think something is wrong. And I’m saying it now.
Something is wrong here!
I personally think the FDA is doing their job (and actually being more lenient than I thought they would), but there are so many people here that think this is just a government plot to insure that no one will make any money except for the tobacco and drug companies, that we wouldn’t be able to stand together in that regard either, so again, no fighting chance there.
I don’t think we have any community standards. Everything has just run amuck. There are too many wrong things that no one is doing anything about. We are going to wind up being our own downfall, and wind up blaming everyone but ourselves, because we don’t even sees it.
I called someone an idiot on a thread yesterday and am sorry about it. Things got a little heated, and the thread was closed before I got a chance to apologize. I got a PM warning about it, but after this post has been read there is a good chance I may be banned from this forum. Even though I am not insulting anyone, my opinion may rub someone the wrong way who has the power to ban me, and if that’s the case, maybe I don’t belong here then.
I will get by with the knowledge that I have gained here, and I thank the “nice” people here (of which there are many) for the help they have given me along the way.
I am a very passive person who likes to do things the right way (but I make mistakes just like everybody else), but having served in the military, I feel compelled to say something when I think something is wrong. And I’m saying it now.
Something is wrong here!
CASAA's membership has grown substantially in the last year. It takes people to make others aware that CASAA is out there fighting for us, the consumers, against the idiocy of our governing bodies. It amazes me how many of the ECF members do not know that CASAA even exists.
When we first join ECF our only concern is to find a setup that will work and mostly as cheaply as possible. It is scary taking that first step. Totally understandable. I was there myself once not so long ago.
In order for CASAA's membership to grow, the word needs to get out that there are those that would love to see this amazing device to bye-bye. CASAA was formed on this very forum by consumers for consumers. No one was fighting for us. They decided to change that.
CASAA is taking the time to break down the double speak that the FDA put out in that report. They want to make sure they do not miss a thing. Have you actually read that document? It is over 200 pages long!
I see something that long and I wonder what the FDA is trying to hide with an over abundance of words.....
CASAA will find out and try to make it understandable to even myself that gets lost in the political mumbo jumbo that the government likes to use to mess with my head and give me a raging headache over.
I will read what CASAA has to say on Monday, when they have said they will let us know what their take is on that FDA document. I will look over the FDA document and try to pick it apart myself. At that time I will start to put together my comment that will be added to the many comments (I hope) on the FDA site.
I hope many of you will do the same.
There is power in numbers and I hope that a few more people will join CASAA to give us, as vapers, an even louder voice.
When we first join ECF our only concern is to find a setup that will work and mostly as cheaply as possible. It is scary taking that first step. Totally understandable. I was there myself once not so long ago.
In order for CASAA's membership to grow, the word needs to get out that there are those that would love to see this amazing device to bye-bye. CASAA was formed on this very forum by consumers for consumers. No one was fighting for us. They decided to change that.
CASAA is taking the time to break down the double speak that the FDA put out in that report. They want to make sure they do not miss a thing. Have you actually read that document? It is over 200 pages long!
I see something that long and I wonder what the FDA is trying to hide with an over abundance of words.....CASAA will find out and try to make it understandable to even myself that gets lost in the political mumbo jumbo that the government likes to use to mess with my head and give me a raging headache over.
I will read what CASAA has to say on Monday, when they have said they will let us know what their take is on that FDA document. I will look over the FDA document and try to pick it apart myself. At that time I will start to put together my comment that will be added to the many comments (I hope) on the FDA site.
I hope many of you will do the same.
There is power in numbers and I hope that a few more people will join CASAA to give us, as vapers, an even louder voice.
+1 from the mechanical mods group that is willing to stick with that OP. No matter the device we are all in this together.
I would like to say one thing about the petitions (well maybe more than one thing...we shall see). First, those petitions are mostly not read line for line (so poor grammar, spelling, incorrect facts are pretty much meaningless) if they are actually read by a human at all. I don't know this for a fact, but my best guess is that they have a software program that finds keywords (much like when people submit resumes) and then a canned response is sent, if there is any response at all. Pretty much, online petitions are worthless in reaching the people who need reaching. Emails are only half a step above petitions...they may or may not be read at all (same kind of software) and if read, it will be by a staffer who has a canned response at the ready. Calls need to be made to your representatives in Congress or actual letters written to ensure that your input is heard at all.
As for the FDA proposal--each person may submit only ONE COMMENT during the comment period. You need to make that comment count for something and it needs to be LOGICAL, not an emotional outburst. CASAA is going through all those pages in the proposal right now and lawyers who are on our side are searching for intent. When CASAA is clear on what type of comments will help the most, they will provide some talking points. Please, please be calm and patient--we all want the same thing here and we all want our input to count for something. The best chance of having that happen is to await guidance.
As for the FDA proposal--each person may submit only ONE COMMENT during the comment period. You need to make that comment count for something and it needs to be LOGICAL, not an emotional outburst. CASAA is going through all those pages in the proposal right now and lawyers who are on our side are searching for intent. When CASAA is clear on what type of comments will help the most, they will provide some talking points. Please, please be calm and patient--we all want the same thing here and we all want our input to count for something. The best chance of having that happen is to await guidance.
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