Is the Icon safe?
- Thread starter LiFeJunKie
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It accepts the AW14500 protected battery as well. You may need to remove one of the washers from the switch to make it fit.
Why would the PV be developed using unprotected batts to begin with or is this correct.??
I've had an Icon for about 2 months now. Got it when it first came out. Of course its safe. I think people make t00 big a deal over the whole protected, non-protected thing. Not like an unprotected battery is gonna blow up in your hand or anything. If your wondering whether to get an Icon, I would recommend it highly.
Here is some information I have found. It should be helpful.
Recently (Q1 2010), there have been numerous documented reports with photographs of explosions and fires caused by 'mods' (custom-buillt or modified ecigarettes). It is now time for us all to take steps to improve the safety of mods and if possible to reduce the danger factors inherent in these devices. ECF has long warned about the various safety aspects involved - sometimes in the face of strong resistance - but now even modders who previously denied this was an issue have admitted they were wrong.
The known factors causing the risk are:
- Large capacity rechargeable batteries
- Such batteries combined, especially in series
- Low availability of high-voltage (HV) atomizers at present
- Overvoltage being applied to atomizers that are designed to work at a maximum voltage, which HV mods exceed
- Use of cheap, unprotected rechargeable batteries
- No gas vent holes, or an insufficient number of holes, that would allow a faulty unprotected battery to degas with relative safety
- Lack of a kill switch (a second 'transport' switch that allows the battery pack to be disconnected for travel and storage)
- The use of a cheap and under-specified switch for the main on/off switch
- The owner mistakenly charging standard, non-rechargeable batteries
An intrinsically unsafe mod, combined with unsafe batteries, is a risk that should be avoided. Component failures or operator error are inevitable and must be planned for.
Incident analysis
What appears to happen during an explosive incident is that a high-voltage mod, operating at 6 volts or higher, experiences an electrical fire; a large volume of inflammable gas that cannot be vented quickly enough is released from a battery experiencing a short-circuit; and an explosion results. Or, the gas is ignited by the electrical fire and an explosion or fire results.
[There are no incidents yet reported of 3.7 (standard voltage) mods exploding* but this does not mean such an incident is impossible, perhaps just less likely. In addition, purse and pocket fires are another area where reports have been received, due to lack of kill switches, and overall system voltage may not be a factor in these incidents. Such fires might lead to more serious incidents such as home fires or traffic collisions. Therefore all high-capacity rechargeable battery custom-built ecigarettes are implicated.]
*There have been reports of meltdowns though.
The electrical incident that causes the subsequent battery failure is thought to be one of two kinds: an atomizer failure or a switch failure - and possibly a combination caused by a domino effect.
A main on/off switch that is rated at sufficient amperage for the load is needed, but sometimes cheap under-rated switches have been used. The main reason for this is actually that small, high-load switches are not easily sourced, not that mod builders try to cut corners, since mods are often built as extra-quality items where dollar savings are not a primary concern.
Another problem is that all current atomizers are low-voltage but many mods run on high-voltage. These terms are relative since we are talking about 3.7 volts at the lower end (the nominal voltage that an atomizer is designed to run at), and 6 volts (the nominal voltage a two-battery mod may be designed to run at).
However it is worth considering that a nominal voltage is just that - a rough figure. For example, with car and boat batteries, the nominal system voltage is 12 volts but the alternator charge voltage is actually 13.2 volts, and an alternator with a management controller, or a full-feature marine alternator (the use of either of which is the only way to ensure a fully-charged battery) will charge for short periods at 14.4 volts. The system therefore needs to be able to withstand voltage peaks of around 15 volts or more.
Although the nominal voltage of a two-battery mod where the batteries are wired in series is 6 volts, it is possible that the peak system voltage with newly charged batteries (2 x 3.7 volts) may be 7.4 volts or initially even higher, if uncontrolled by a regulator. The batteries have a freshly charged voltgae of 4.2 volts, so placing them in series gives 8.4 volts. This is more likely to lead to incidents since the atomizer design voltage is clearly being exceeded. A atomizer probably needs to work (ie heat up a wire in a similar way to a glowing filament in a light bulb, in order to heat a liquid and convert it into steam) at as low as 3.1 volts, since this might be the system voltage in a standard ecigarette with a partly-discharged battery. Applying nearly three times this voltage to one is not inherently safe.
Let's hypothesise that incident (1) involves a failed atomizer, and incident (2) involves a switch failure. Unprotected batteries are being used, and there are no gas vent holes drilled in the casing of the mod.
Incident 1.
A high-voltage mod is in use. The duty cycle is extensive, and the mod is put to heavy use. Or, the atomizer is old. Or, the atomizer is of low quality. Or, the atomizer is damaged due to a drop onto a hard surface.
The atomizer fails, and goes to a short-circuit condition - that is, it 'welds up' and creates a low-resistance path across itself. The battery supplies a high current, almost equivalent to a direct short (due to the fact that a high resistance path across the heater wire has been replaced by a short-circuit or near short-circuit). The cheap, unprotected batteries deliver full or almost full output, which will be of the order of tens of amps. [see note 1 below]
The extreme, extended load on the battery causes it to fail, and the casing melts due to the heat generated. As the casing fails, large quantities of hot, flammable gas are released. If the ecigarette casing is unvented, the device explodes, since in most respects it resembles a bomb, which is simply a sealed metal casing inside which large quantities of gas are generated rapidly. The critical factors are the volume of gas, the speed of gas creation, the flammability of the gas, and the cross-sectional vent area or lack of it (how many and how big the vents are). Note that battery meltdown/runaways often produce hydrogen gas.
If the casing is vented but poorly, the device if unrestrained will act as a jet engine, expelling burnt gas through a vent and accelerating away. If restrained (as in a pocket or in a purse / handbag), the device will act as a small flamethrower, expelling a quantity of hot or burning gas. If in the hand and in use, as has happened and been documented, then injury is likely.
Note that incidents of all these types have occurred.
[update Aug 2010]
Atomizer failure of this type is now thought to be the least likely type of incident.
[1] Direct short circuit currents from batteries are amazingly high. For example, a small 1.5 volt AA penlight cell will deliver 10 amps short circuit current. A 12 volt car battery can deliver over 5,000 amps short circuit current. This is why you can weld with a car battery, although it's easier with two or three in series in order to get a higher voltage. These high DC currents are essentially what is used in DC welding (an alternative to the normal AC stick welding that gives a higher quality result), where two metals are melted and joined together - and also consider that you only need 100 amps to weld continuously with a thick welding rod. There is a lot of power even in a small battery. Metals can very easily be melted, there is that much power and heat available. Note that amps are basically independent from volts, and it is the amount of amps available and for how long (not volts) that determines whether a circuit failure is potentially dangerous or not. For example a tiny button cell that can deliver 0.25 amps short-circuit current for half a second is probably not significantly dangerous even in a poorly-built device kept in a pocket. But a large rechargeable battery that can deliver 10 amps for several seconds has to be considered worthy of respect.
Incident 2.
All factors as before, except that an under-rated switch is used. It fails due to age, or excess duty cycle (holding it on for a long period), or due to being in a pocket or purse and locked on due to contact with an object pressing against it.
The switch fails with a short-circuit, welding up to create a low-resistance path across itself.
The batteries fail due to extended high load, as before, and create a large volume of hot or burning gas.
Incident 3 (hypothesis).
It may be possible that a domino effect can occur. If either the atomizer or the switch fails to a short-circuit condition, then the other component might then also fail due to the extreme load (in the case of an atomizer failing first) or the extended load (a switch short circuit occurring first). In either case the device is then locked on and may then go into meltdown, and an explosion or hot vented gas incident may occur.
Incident 4.
[August 2010 update]
It now looks as if the most common cause for these events is simply thermal runaway of the batteries. Due to exceeding the duty cycle of the battery, by having it deliver too much current for too long (as would occur if the device is in a pocket and the on/off switch jams on), the battery goes into meltdown. If there are two batteries, the first one to fail takes the other one out as well. A large amount (for the casing size) of hot hydrogen is produced in a short time.
Recently (Q1 2010), there have been numerous documented reports with photographs of explosions and fires caused by 'mods' (custom-buillt or modified ecigarettes). It is now time for us all to take steps to improve the safety of mods and if possible to reduce the danger factors inherent in these devices. ECF has long warned about the various safety aspects involved - sometimes in the face of strong resistance - but now even modders who previously denied this was an issue have admitted they were wrong.
The known factors causing the risk are:
- Large capacity rechargeable batteries
- Such batteries combined, especially in series
- Low availability of high-voltage (HV) atomizers at present
- Overvoltage being applied to atomizers that are designed to work at a maximum voltage, which HV mods exceed
- Use of cheap, unprotected rechargeable batteries
- No gas vent holes, or an insufficient number of holes, that would allow a faulty unprotected battery to degas with relative safety
- Lack of a kill switch (a second 'transport' switch that allows the battery pack to be disconnected for travel and storage)
- The use of a cheap and under-specified switch for the main on/off switch
- The owner mistakenly charging standard, non-rechargeable batteries
An intrinsically unsafe mod, combined with unsafe batteries, is a risk that should be avoided. Component failures or operator error are inevitable and must be planned for.
Incident analysis
What appears to happen during an explosive incident is that a high-voltage mod, operating at 6 volts or higher, experiences an electrical fire; a large volume of inflammable gas that cannot be vented quickly enough is released from a battery experiencing a short-circuit; and an explosion results. Or, the gas is ignited by the electrical fire and an explosion or fire results.
[There are no incidents yet reported of 3.7 (standard voltage) mods exploding* but this does not mean such an incident is impossible, perhaps just less likely. In addition, purse and pocket fires are another area where reports have been received, due to lack of kill switches, and overall system voltage may not be a factor in these incidents. Such fires might lead to more serious incidents such as home fires or traffic collisions. Therefore all high-capacity rechargeable battery custom-built ecigarettes are implicated.]
*There have been reports of meltdowns though.
The electrical incident that causes the subsequent battery failure is thought to be one of two kinds: an atomizer failure or a switch failure - and possibly a combination caused by a domino effect.
A main on/off switch that is rated at sufficient amperage for the load is needed, but sometimes cheap under-rated switches have been used. The main reason for this is actually that small, high-load switches are not easily sourced, not that mod builders try to cut corners, since mods are often built as extra-quality items where dollar savings are not a primary concern.
Another problem is that all current atomizers are low-voltage but many mods run on high-voltage. These terms are relative since we are talking about 3.7 volts at the lower end (the nominal voltage that an atomizer is designed to run at), and 6 volts (the nominal voltage a two-battery mod may be designed to run at).
However it is worth considering that a nominal voltage is just that - a rough figure. For example, with car and boat batteries, the nominal system voltage is 12 volts but the alternator charge voltage is actually 13.2 volts, and an alternator with a management controller, or a full-feature marine alternator (the use of either of which is the only way to ensure a fully-charged battery) will charge for short periods at 14.4 volts. The system therefore needs to be able to withstand voltage peaks of around 15 volts or more.
Although the nominal voltage of a two-battery mod where the batteries are wired in series is 6 volts, it is possible that the peak system voltage with newly charged batteries (2 x 3.7 volts) may be 7.4 volts or initially even higher, if uncontrolled by a regulator. The batteries have a freshly charged voltgae of 4.2 volts, so placing them in series gives 8.4 volts. This is more likely to lead to incidents since the atomizer design voltage is clearly being exceeded. A atomizer probably needs to work (ie heat up a wire in a similar way to a glowing filament in a light bulb, in order to heat a liquid and convert it into steam) at as low as 3.1 volts, since this might be the system voltage in a standard ecigarette with a partly-discharged battery. Applying nearly three times this voltage to one is not inherently safe.
Let's hypothesise that incident (1) involves a failed atomizer, and incident (2) involves a switch failure. Unprotected batteries are being used, and there are no gas vent holes drilled in the casing of the mod.
Incident 1.
A high-voltage mod is in use. The duty cycle is extensive, and the mod is put to heavy use. Or, the atomizer is old. Or, the atomizer is of low quality. Or, the atomizer is damaged due to a drop onto a hard surface.
The atomizer fails, and goes to a short-circuit condition - that is, it 'welds up' and creates a low-resistance path across itself. The battery supplies a high current, almost equivalent to a direct short (due to the fact that a high resistance path across the heater wire has been replaced by a short-circuit or near short-circuit). The cheap, unprotected batteries deliver full or almost full output, which will be of the order of tens of amps. [see note 1 below]
The extreme, extended load on the battery causes it to fail, and the casing melts due to the heat generated. As the casing fails, large quantities of hot, flammable gas are released. If the ecigarette casing is unvented, the device explodes, since in most respects it resembles a bomb, which is simply a sealed metal casing inside which large quantities of gas are generated rapidly. The critical factors are the volume of gas, the speed of gas creation, the flammability of the gas, and the cross-sectional vent area or lack of it (how many and how big the vents are). Note that battery meltdown/runaways often produce hydrogen gas.
If the casing is vented but poorly, the device if unrestrained will act as a jet engine, expelling burnt gas through a vent and accelerating away. If restrained (as in a pocket or in a purse / handbag), the device will act as a small flamethrower, expelling a quantity of hot or burning gas. If in the hand and in use, as has happened and been documented, then injury is likely.
Note that incidents of all these types have occurred.
[update Aug 2010]
Atomizer failure of this type is now thought to be the least likely type of incident.
[1] Direct short circuit currents from batteries are amazingly high. For example, a small 1.5 volt AA penlight cell will deliver 10 amps short circuit current. A 12 volt car battery can deliver over 5,000 amps short circuit current. This is why you can weld with a car battery, although it's easier with two or three in series in order to get a higher voltage. These high DC currents are essentially what is used in DC welding (an alternative to the normal AC stick welding that gives a higher quality result), where two metals are melted and joined together - and also consider that you only need 100 amps to weld continuously with a thick welding rod. There is a lot of power even in a small battery. Metals can very easily be melted, there is that much power and heat available. Note that amps are basically independent from volts, and it is the amount of amps available and for how long (not volts) that determines whether a circuit failure is potentially dangerous or not. For example a tiny button cell that can deliver 0.25 amps short-circuit current for half a second is probably not significantly dangerous even in a poorly-built device kept in a pocket. But a large rechargeable battery that can deliver 10 amps for several seconds has to be considered worthy of respect.
Incident 2.
All factors as before, except that an under-rated switch is used. It fails due to age, or excess duty cycle (holding it on for a long period), or due to being in a pocket or purse and locked on due to contact with an object pressing against it.
The switch fails with a short-circuit, welding up to create a low-resistance path across itself.
The batteries fail due to extended high load, as before, and create a large volume of hot or burning gas.
Incident 3 (hypothesis).
It may be possible that a domino effect can occur. If either the atomizer or the switch fails to a short-circuit condition, then the other component might then also fail due to the extreme load (in the case of an atomizer failing first) or the extended load (a switch short circuit occurring first). In either case the device is then locked on and may then go into meltdown, and an explosion or hot vented gas incident may occur.
Incident 4.
[August 2010 update]
It now looks as if the most common cause for these events is simply thermal runaway of the batteries. Due to exceeding the duty cycle of the battery, by having it deliver too much current for too long (as would occur if the device is in a pocket and the on/off switch jams on), the battery goes into meltdown. If there are two batteries, the first one to fail takes the other one out as well. A large amount (for the casing size) of hot hydrogen is produced in a short time.
FYI, this announcement just appeared today:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...9007-warning-rechargeable-batteries-mods.html
BINGO what I have been saying, though I am not expert. Why risk at all?
Are you all nuts? I own several large caliber guns - guess what? I haven't shot myself - yet.
ya know why? I pay attention.
ya know why? I pay attention.
LOL@CSR I agree with you... I have been using 6 volt mods for over a year with only a couple of problems which I noticed right away because I was paying attention.....too bad the world has so many idiots in it. We have all these laws to protect us from ourselves! I don't need to be protected from myself, I need to be protected from all the idiots!
i have an icon,you dont have to use unprotected batteries.i use aw imr 14500 which dont need protection circuit and no chance of exploding. puresmoker really needs to get on top of this i think it is really hurting the sales of a awesome mod. and they should really carry these kind of batteries.
Absolutely. It's the idiots who ruin it for everybody, though. Nothing is ever their fault. And why learn to pay attention to anything? That's what nannies are for.
Now that I have that out of my system....
Worried about an unprotected battery? Buy a protected one. Pure Smoker sells them right there on their site. The choice is there. However, I have been using the unprotected batteries for a year now with no problems. I used the standard Tenergy 14500s for about 8 months and switched to the AW IMR 14500s about 4 months ago. Still no problems. Because, like boochips, I pay attention. I don't abuse my batteries. I don't abuse my mod. I no more need nor want a nanny telling me what I can or can't use in my mod any more than I need or want a nanny telling me that I can't vape at all. Could something still happen? Of course it could. The same could be said for driving a car. Or owning an iPod (which have been reported to burst into flames). Or crossing the street. Nothing in life, except for death, is guaranteed.
OK... maybe I didn't have it out of my system after all.
Well said Greg
Icon is perfectly safe using a single 3.7v battery protected or unprotected if you are really worried and use L/R atomizers use AW IMR 14500 which can handle the high drain and are the best battery for the Icon
Icon is perfectly safe using a single 3.7v battery protected or unprotected if you are really worried and use L/R atomizers use AW IMR 14500 which can handle the high drain and are the best battery for the Icon
Actually, the Puresmoker site clearly states that it cannot use protected circuit batteries. However, it can use the IMR ones. It seems odd that they would not allow for protected LI's. They have the advantage of longer battery life than LIMN's if one is using regular and not LR atomizers. They also have another advantage, if you are out and about the battery gets too low it will trip the switch, and you will probably be able to save the battery. If you use one of the LIMN's too long you will damage it. Also, considering the official position taken by ECF staff on this issue, seen on the front page of this forum, Puresmoker is going against the grain, with little to gain from it. Other than that it looks like a nice device.
I'm not sure why the PS site says they won't work. Others have reported that they do work and are using them, but you have to remove all of the washers. And I believe it's only the AW ones that will fit.
We just try to make it a little easier for those who don't read the forums, etc. In the standard configuration (ie, how the unit arrives when purchased) protected batteries won't work. You have to add/remove washers and in the new switch case, a plastic component. But they will work.
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