Is the Subtank Mini still a good investment?
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For 2.75$ I get 30ft of Kanthal, which gets me about 40 coils, never have to worry about running out, instead of buying coils I can put that money into other vape stuffI don't rebuild OCC coils. I do use the RBA from time to time.
My coils cost 40 cents a day, if that. I don't know why everybody says this is such a 'bad deal'.. that wouldn't buy 1 cigarette a day in Europe.
Just waiting on another 2 x 5 packs as it happens.
and some Ni200s...
and some BVCs...
Got my first kanger ni200s in today. I'll likely stay with 1.2 ohm sub 20w during the week, but these are fun for the weekend
My subtank mini leaked out the airholes as well. It wasn't a seal, it was mouth to lung vaping at 12w with the 70pg/30vg juice I use. Happened with the stock vertical coils with those huge wick holes and the RBA v2 with the huge wick holes designed for higher vg juice. I've ordered the v1 RBA from sweet-Vapes that have the smaller bottom channels to see if that works. As it stands now the subtank mini sits on the counter and my nautilus mini's and kayfun lite V2 get used, since they've never leaked.
I've talked to several people who said their subtank mini's leaked as well, and the forum has reports of it. If you assume people are idiots because you can't see beyond your own experience, then you are ignorant of the facts. Now I get to wink.
With the RBA you can solve that by stuffing more cotton at the juice-flow holes or with stock coils slightly opening up the airflow to where it still can be used for mtl (that's why the 1.5 coil is designed for mtl and the .5 for lung hits, it's not because of the resistance, but the juice-flow holes are smaller on the 1.5.) Tanks operate based on vacuum, when you take a drag some of that pressure difference pulls in air to hit your wick, and some of it goes to suck in new juice from the tank, if you increase the resistance at the air-flow (by closing it down), the excess vacuum has to hit somewhere and it ends up sucking in more juice than you can vape flooding your coil and leaking through the air-flow.
That doesn't mean it's a bad tank, it usually means it's not being used as intended, period. Also I did not assume anyone to be an idiot, people are coming here asking for help and I'm trying to help them as best as I can. Now in this case it made me a bit sad that people are buying all sorts of stuff and instead of trying to figure out how to use it properly, they throw it away... especially people who are also interested in this tank because of the RBA... Rebuilding stuff isn't really about watching rip trippers make a fool out of himself on youtube, then trying to imitate him, it also involves figuring out the reasons your tanks are leaking etc..
So no, I did not for a moment think that he's an idiot, nor did I say that.. I just asked him to next time try and give it away instead of just throwing it in the trash, which I still consider to be a good idea.. Also I don't think he got offended for even a moment there. And last but not least I can see way beyond my own experience and I wouldn't call myself ignorant at all
) I have you for that <3Cheers to you!
Your discussion regarding tanks working on vacuum are consistent with what I've read/learned, no disagreement there. The trouble I had with the subtank mini stock coils were the 1.2 ohm (the 1.2 ohm horizontals I bought were nasty, harsh vapor, though well primed). Basically I read all I could about subtank mini leaks (and there are a lot), talked with others at work who also said they had exprierenced leaks on occasion out the air holes (3 for 3, all experienced vapers, one used a rag around it lol). On the forum, I think most folks have had great success with them, and from what I've learned it all boils down to how they are used for the most part, other than the occasional coil o-ring caused leaks.With the RBA you can solve that by stuffing more cotton at the juice-flow holes or with stock coils slightly opening up the airflow to where it still can be used for mtl (that's why the 1.5 coil is designed for mtl and the .5 for lung hits, it's not because of the resistance, but the juice-flow holes are smaller on the 1.5.) Tanks operate based on vacuum, when you take a drag some of that pressure difference pulls in air to hit your wick, and some of it goes to suck in new juice from the tank, if you increase the resistance at the air-flow (by closing it down), the excess vacuum has to hit somewhere and it ends up sucking in more juice than you can vape flooding your coil and leaking through the air-flow.
That doesn't mean it's a bad tank, it usually means it's not being used as intended, period. Also I did not assume anyone to be an idiot, people are coming here asking for help and I'm trying to help them as best as I can. Now in this case it made me a bit sad that people are buying all sorts of stuff and instead of trying to figure out how to use it properly, they throw it away... especially people who are also interested in this tank because of the RBA... Rebuilding stuff isn't really about watching rip trippers make a fool out of himself on youtube, then trying to imitate him, it also involves figuring out the reasons your tanks are leaking etc..
So no, I did not for a moment think that he's an idiot, nor did I say that.. I just asked him to next time try and give it away instead of just throwing it in the trash, which I still consider to be a good idea.. Also I don't think he got offended for even a moment there. And last but not least I can see way beyond my own experience and I wouldn't call myself ignorant at all
Cheers to you!
Now here's where we differ, you state "That doesn't mean it's a bad tank, it usually means it's not being used as intended, period." Well, maybe not period, in my opinion.
I found that rather arrogant, the same arrogance I saw in your post belittling the guy for throwing away his tank haha. So lets discuss my leaks, so we keep this between us two, shall we? So I used the subtank mini at 10 to 12 watts on the stock 1.2 ohm vertical coils, and usually less on the RBA V2. 70pg/30vg, second air hole. Since that is within the coil range stamped on the coil, and the air flow is in the middle, how is that not in accordance with the "intended" usage? I have also seen reports of leak with higher VG juices at higher power. Intended usage does not mean how you, personally, use it you know.
I've written plenty in the forum of testing I've done to determine the source of my leaks, and its not seals, or o-rings, or any other source, it's the saturated vertical coil wick. On the 1.2 ohm stock coils, I tried the air flow wide open, same results, and usually occurs when the tank level was down around half way. Same thing occurred with the V2 RBA with those large wick holes, which provide a large surface area for the air to permeate through to the tank. I agree that putting a lot more cotton in the RBA to fill up the wick hole openings is worth trying, I did, cotton was tight against the holes, didn't help. The only thing I didn't try yet is to wick straight from the coil out the wick holes as some have said works.
Prior to Kangertech coming out with the subtank V2 RBA, a lot of people were complaining of dry hits with the V1 RBA's with the small channels at the bottom, so they changed the design and put those two huge wick holes on the sides of the can, which while helpful for higher VG juices, is detrimental to high PG thinner juice. Recently a helpful soul here told me that the V1 RBA's with the small juice channels at the bottom were back in stock at Sweet-Vapes, I bought three, and have one in my mini right now, interested to see how it does when the juice gets down half way or lower (which usually is when I see a leak). I'm hopeful.
You know, I've read a lot of threads here about subtank mini leaks, even from folks vaping high VG, and one thing I've learned not to do is to assume they are doing something wrong, or that they are not using it "as intended", lol. I build coils on my kayfun light V2 and have no leaks. I use Nautilus mini's and never have had a leak, yet I've seen posts where others have. Its possible that if they are new, they could be doing something wrong, so sure, its fine to ask questions. But its also possible that they are doing all the right things, have experience, and there is a manufacturing defect, or bad coil, or their style of usage is not conducive to the tank.
Sir, unless you vape 70pg/30vg, you have no information you can offer me regarding my experience. And that is my point.
And if you assume that I am not using it "as intended", then you are incorrect. I will not change to high VG for a tank. I will not change to a higher power for a tank. I will not lung inhale to fit the tank. I will find and use tanks that fit my style and my power level. The minute you tell someone to use a larger air hole setting, as you did, you have just pointed out a deficiency in the tank for the users style of vaping, that doesn't mean there's a problem with the user, or that the user is not using it as intended, its a shortcoming in the tank, not the user.
Now you have a good day.
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Your discussion regarding tanks working on vacuum are consistent with what I've read/learned, no disagreement there. The trouble I had with the subtank mini stock coils were the 1.2 ohm (the 1.2 ohm horizontals I bought were nasty, harsh vapor, though well primed). Basically I read all I could about subtank mini leaks (and there are a lot), talked with others at work who also said they had exprierenced leaks on occasion out the air holes (3 for 3, all experienced vapers, one used a rag around it lol). On the forum, I think most folks have had great success with them, and from what I've learned it all boils down to how they are used for the most part, other than the occasional coil o-ring caused leaks.
Now here's where we differ, you state "That doesn't mean it's a bad tank, it usually means it's not being used as intended, period." Well, maybe not period, in my opinion.
So I used the subtank mini at 10 to 12 watts on the stock 1.2 ohm vertical coils, and usually less on the RBA V2. 70pg/30vg, second air hole. Since that is within the coil range stamped on the coil, and the air flow is in the middle, how is that not in accordance with the "intended" usage? I have also seen reports of leak with higher VG juices at higher power. Intended usage does not mean how you, personally, use it you know.
I've written plenty in the forum of testing I've done to determine the source of my leaks, and its not seals, or o-rings, or any other source, it's the saturated vertical coil wick. On the 1.2 ohm stock coils, I tried the air flow wide open, same results, and usually occurs when the tank level was down around half way. Same thing occurred with the V2 RBA with those large wick holes, which provide a large surface area for the air to permeate through to the tank. I agree that putting a lot more cotton in the RBA to fill up the wick hole openings is worth trying, I did, cotton was tight against the holes, didn't help. The only thing I didn't try yet is to wick straight from the coil out the wick holes as some have said works.
Prior to Kangertech coming out with the subtank V2 RBA, a lot of people were complaining of dry hits with the V1 RBA's with the small channels at the bottom, so they changed the design and put those two huge wick holes on the sides of the can, which while helpful for higher VG juices, is detrimental to high PG thinner juice. Recently a helpful soul here told me that the V1 RBA's with the small juice channels at the bottom were back in stock at Sweet-Vapes, I bought three, and have one in my mini right now, interested to see how it does when the juice gets down half way or lower (which usually is when I see a leak). I'm hopeful.
You know, I've read a lot of threads here about subtank mini leaks, even from folks vaping high VG, and one thing I've learned not to do is to assume they are doing something wrong, or that they are not using it "as intended", lol. I build coils on my kayfun light V2 and have no leaks. I use Nautilus mini's and never have had a leak, yet I've seen posts where others have. Its possible that if they are new, they could be doing something wrong, so sure, its fine to ask questions. But its also possible that they are doing all the right things, have experience, and there is a manufacturing defect, or bad coil, or their style of usage is not conducive to the tank.
Sir, unless you vape 70pg/30vg, you have no information you can offer me regarding my experience. And that is my point.
And if you assume that I am not using it "as intended", then you are incorrect. I will not change to high VG for a tank. I will not change to a higher power for a tank. I will not lung inhale to fit the tank. I will find and use tanks that fit my style and my power level. The minute you tell someone to use a larger air hole setting, as you did, you have just pointed out a deficiency in the tank for the users style of vaping, that doesn't mean there's a problem with the user, or that the user is not using it as intended, its a shortcoming in the tank, not the user.
Now you have a good day.
I have a feeling we're kinda getting off-topic here
So let's get the personal stuff out of the way first, shall we? You have certain assumptions about me (which I am only assuming as well at this point, so it could work out either way). I kinda have a feeling you're assuming me to be some fancy cloud chaser with subtanks and lung inhales and high VG and all the 'cool' toys and stuff
Well, nope.. I consider vaping nothing more than it is - vaping - , be it on an ego starter kit or a fancy mech with a dripper. Most of the time I use my kayfun v4 with 10 wraps of 28 AWG kanthal at 9.5 watts, other time I use my nixon dripper with dual fused claptons and lung hits. I make my juice and use all sorts of combinations.. I do have PG70/30, though I mainly prefer something closer to 50/50 (balanced, no?) and I also have some ego sets, which I don't really vape anymore but I like giving to smoker friends when they visit me ) So yea, I consider myself a versatile vaper. Now let's get back on topic. My last reply, I wrote in a hurry and didn't have time to re-check properly so it might be a bit confusing, I agree with that.. I wrote "That doesn't mean it's a bad tank, it usually means it's not being used as intended, period." and huge emphasis on the word 'usually', because I never said nor assumed that kanger doesn't make manufacturing errors, however until the actual cause is found, you don't know. Same way that the person who threw away his tank will never know, it could've been an easy fix.. it could've been a defective tank (but there are only so many things that can go wrong with a tank)
Regarding the intended use of products, you're over-complicating it. The product has its intended use, if you prefer to use it differently and it doesn't deliver the same performance, it's not the products fault, it's your fault for not choosing something that suits you, simple as that (something that has a 3mm or wider hole below the coil can't be considered a proper mouth-to-lung tank no matter what the box says) . If you're vision impaired and you buy a car, but cannot drive it due to your imperfection, it's not the cars fault, nor the manufacturers, it's your fault for not buying something that better suits you. Well made products CAN be 'perfect', humans can NEVER be, that's just the way it is!. Now, things change if you decide to modify said product to find a workaround (eg. hire a driver for that car), you might end up having something that suits you. Bottom line, like you yourself have said, if it does not suit you, buy something else or if you think you can modify it to suit your needs then buy it and modify it.. do whatever you feel like doing, as long as it keeps you off smoking and makes you happy.
And last but not least you mentioned 'arrogance'. Well I'm not that arrogant as you might think, but sometimes it is needed, especially in forums like these.. This is not a dating forum, you do not have to like me.. the idea is that people post their problems and other people post their idea of a solution to said problem. In a scenario like this, cold hard facts are way more helpful, than your specific personal experience or opinion. When a person comes to these forums in order to seek information, they do not care at all about my opinion on sub-ohm vaping or mechanical mods.. they want to know if their battery will handle a certain coil or blow their hands off, plain and simple as that.. I made the mistake of posting something that had to do with my opinion, and look where it got me...
Anyway, this conversation doesn't appear to be leading anywhere or having any purpose at all. I am sorry if I offended anyone, all I did was express my OPINION about throwing perfectly good stuff away..
Other than that feel free to create a new thread should you wish to seek help with your own subtank mini leaking. It's more productive than going around other threads mentioning the product that didn't work out for you and trying to convince people it's bad.
Cheers
I remember there being a chart, what mix of juice should be used at what wattages.
Yeah, Kanger had a little card that came in the box, which gave some recommendations I think about ratios vs wattages.
I've got the Subtank Mini. Its actually my first RTA. I'm using it on a Kanger Kbox atm. Got vape mail en route with an Athena Vapesnap 50w though.
A fair response and Let's agree to disagree. I offered my experience with the tank, as you did, and have no need to convince anyone of anything. And by the way, I fully intend to post my experience with the subtank mini in any thread I desire. You may do the same if you wish. Enjoy your dayI have a feeling we're kinda getting off-topic here
So let's get the personal stuff out of the way first, shall we? You have certain assumptions about me (which I am only assuming as well at this point, so it could work out either way). I kinda have a feeling you're assuming me to be some fancy cloud chaser with subtanks and lung inhales and high VG and all the 'cool' toys and stuff
Now let's get back on topic. My last reply, I wrote in a hurry and didn't have time to re-check properly so it might be a bit confusing, I agree with that.. I wrote "That doesn't mean it's a bad tank, it usually means it's not being used as intended, period." and huge emphasis on the word 'usually', because I never said nor assumed that kanger doesn't make manufacturing errors, however until the actual cause is found, you don't know. Same way that the person who threw away his tank will never know, it could've been an easy fix.. it could've been a defective tank (but there are only so many things that can go wrong with a tank)
Regarding the intended use of products, you're over-complicating it. The product has its intended use, if you prefer to use it differently and it doesn't deliver the same performance, it's not the products fault, it's your fault for not choosing something that suits you, simple as that (something that has a 3mm or wider hole below the coil can't be considered a proper mouth-to-lung tank no matter what the box says) . If you're vision impaired and you buy a car, but cannot drive it due to your imperfection, it's not the cars fault, nor the manufacturers, it's your fault for not buying something that better suits you. Well made products CAN be 'perfect', humans can NEVER be, that's just the way it is!. Now, things change if you decide to modify said product to find a workaround (eg. hire a driver for that car), you might end up having something that suits you. Bottom line, like you yourself have said, if it does not suit you, buy something else or if you think you can modify it to suit your needs then buy it and modify it.. do whatever you feel like doing, as long as it keeps you off smoking and makes you happy.
And last but not least you mentioned 'arrogance'. Well I'm not that arrogant as you might think, but sometimes it is needed, especially in forums like these.. This is not a dating forum, you do not have to like me.. the idea is that people post their problems and other people post their idea of a solution to said problem. In a scenario like this, cold hard facts are way more helpful, than your specific personal experience or opinion. When a person comes to these forums in order to seek information, they do not care at all about my opinion on sub-ohm vaping or mechanical mods.. they want to know if their battery will handle a certain coil or blow their hands off, plain and simple as that.. I made the mistake of posting something that had to do with my opinion, and look where it got me...
Anyway, this conversation doesn't appear to be leading anywhere or having any purpose at all. I am sorry if I offended anyone, all I did was express my OPINION about throwing perfectly good stuff away..
Other than that feel free to create a new thread should you wish to seek help with your own subtank mini leaking. It's more productive than going around other threads mentioning the product that didn't work out for you and trying to convince people it's bad.
Cheers
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