Is there a point anymore? Why isn't everything 510?

[BlackMetalBuick]

Well putting the whole 510 thing aside, I do agree with the general point of why do actual stores or mall kiosks only sell these overpriced re-packaged re-named models. Aside from websites, I have no idea where I could go and just get atomizers and other parts without being sold some stupid "brand" name thing for three times the price. I don't know of any brick and mortar places where I could just go get a Riva or an eGo, or an atomizer. It's always "Super SmokeFree 4Life" starter kit $99.99.

 

[Firefly13]

Well putting the whole 510 thing aside, I do agree with the general point of why do actual stores or mall kiosks only sell these overpriced re-packaged re-named models. Aside from websites, I have no idea where I could go and just get atomizers and other parts without being sold some stupid "brand" name thing for three times the price. I don't know of any brick and mortar places where I could just go get a Riva or an eGo, or an atomizer. It's always "Super SmokeFree 4Life" starter kit $99.99.

Because it's those garbage big companies who have contacts to the retail channels. It is very sad

 

[xg4bx]

Let's keep things in perspective here. When someone decides to try an e-cig they are likely to pick one up at a convenience store (this is where many buy their cigarettes). This product will likely be an RN4081/njoy/nPro. They won't know what the hell they're doing. They'll do it wrong and think it "sucks". The 4081 is what I, and many people around me, started on. It didn't take our group long to figure out what made these things tick and how to make them work well...hell, I still have a pair and they work awesome.

Additionally, and I've said this before, basing "research" on what you read here on ECF is greatly insufficient. Latest published numbers are between 20,000 and 30,000 new people trying an e-cig a week. Yes....a week. There are roughly 50,000 ECF members total and roughly 7,000 active members. A drop in the bucket. nJoy and Smoking Everywhere are currently the largest e-cig distributors and the majority of new vapers will be buying their products simply because they are everywhere, for the moment anyway. Since these are people who are completely new there will be a lot of user error to account for. Generalizing that an nJoy is crap, for example, is just poor judgement, especially if you've never used one. And these 'opinions' tend to spread like wildfire around here. Give a 4081 to an experienced vaper and they'll make it work beautifully. Give a complete noob a high-end, highly rated, high priced mod, with little to no instruction, and chances are they'll "do it wrong" and think it sucks.

i can't even tell you how many youtube videos i've seen that pretty much nail your scenario. i've seen videos of everything from blu up to mods and people are simply using them incorrectly. one that sticks in my mind was one i saw for an 808 model, i think it was a smoketip, and the guy was sucking on it like a triple thick milkshake, quick hit after quick hit like a chain smoker and berating its poor vapor production. i told him straight up that he wasn't using the bleeping thing correctly.

it may sound silly on the surface but these things truly need to come with a "how to" manual. not just how to charge batteries but truly how to use it. make the purchaser totally aware that it is not a cigarette and your "smoking" behaviors don't apply now.

 

[BradSmith]

I would say that the gas stations simply have one supplier for e-cigs who probably also has a ton of other things they supply as well. In other words it's just one thing more they can add to their store to turn a profit on. I managed a grociery store for years. You really don't have the time to do whole lot of research on every item in your store. If you tried to you would need one full time employee doing that alone. As for the mall stores. I would imagine that they get their product supplied to them fairly cheaply and it's just the simplest way to turn a profit.

I'm sure tons of people are turned off by a cheap product but not eveyone makes it with the 510's and Kr8's that are very popular on this site. At one time I had about all my friends using one or the other, some tried both and still haven't made it. I even made of box mods for a bunch. I hate to say it but e-cigs only work if you really want them to and if you really want them to work you will find a way.

 

[RollTheBones]

there's 1000 different brands of cigs out there, there's plenty of room for various e-cig models.

personally i have yet to see any advantage to a 510 over an 808.

Last I checked I didn't see anyway to drip on an 808, aren't they cartomizer only?

That's the main reason my 808s are collecting dust, cartomizers are such a huge PITA

 

[mistinthewoods]

For one thing the 510 has very fine threads they will strip much easier and it requires 2x the amount of turns to put them on ! , 2nd the 510 tastes like azz ! IMO a 901 or 808 is a better design .

So what you are saying is that we should only be able to drive Fords right ?? J/K making a point !

Variety is the spice of life !

Right on Buzz. Preach it brother.

 

[otrpu]

I guess I'm just old fashioned, but I have no idea what azz tastes like. . .and don't intend to find out.

Cheers,
otrpu

 

[roxics]

I didn't mean to offend the Kr8 crowd. I started on a kr8 myself. Honestly I don't care which threading becomes the standard, I would just like to see one of them become the standard. The only reason I picked the 510 is because they have cig sized batteries, eGo sized batteries and most mods are available by default with 510 threading.

Personally I find the Riva 510 with a Boge 2.0 ohm cartomizer to be the best scenario mid range. Far better than the kr8. But then I haven't tried the new kr8 cartomizers so they're probably similar. For those that argue that the kr8 has a better cig sized battery, I agree, but there is nothing stopping manufacturers from putting a 510 thread on those puppies. In fact I'm wondering why this hasn't happened already.

The thing is, we're smart. We all realized there might be better e-cigs out there. But there are a lot of people who probably try a crappy e-cig and think all e-cigs are like that. They never give it a second thought. I know this is true because I've encountered a few people like this.

A few weeks ago I was at a Christmas party and was outside with my Riva and the smokers. This old guy asked me if that was an e-cig and I asked him if he wanted to try it. He told me he already tried cigarette sized e-cig at an indoor flea market and didn't like the taste. I told him that was probably some cheap model with chinese juice and that he should try my American juice in my Riva. He wasn't interested. Just went on about how he didn't like it. Didn't even want to bother trying mine.

Yes it's his fault for not trying my better e-cig. But the sad fact is his first impression with a cheapo model was so strong it turned him off completely from trying it again. So he's probably going to go on chain smoking Camels for the rest of his life.

 

[StormFinch]

Last I checked I didn't see anyway to drip on an 808, aren't they cartomizer only?

That's the main reason my 808s are collecting dust, cartomizers are such a huge PITA

The 901 attys fit on the kr8 batteries and about half the kr8 cartomizers fit on the 901 Rivas.

I personally use the 901 attys with an adapter on the 510 Rivas. For me the 901 Rivas are too airy and the adjustable 510-808 adapters solve that. At the same time, the 901 attys have a better flavor imho.

 

[xg4bx]

I didn't mean to offend the Kr8 crowd. I started on a kr8 myself. Honestly I don't care which threading becomes the standard, I would just like to see one of them become the standard. The only reason I picked the 510 is because they have cig sized batteries, eGo sized batteries and most mods are available by default with 510 threading.

Personally I find the Riva 510 with a Boge 2.0 ohm cartomizer to be the best scenario mid range. Far better than the kr8. But then I haven't tried the new kr8 cartomizers so they're probably similar. For those that argue that the kr8 has a better cig sized battery, I agree, but there is nothing stopping manufacturers from putting a 510 thread on those puppies. In fact I'm wondering why this hasn't happened already.

The thing is, we're smart. We all realized there might be better e-cigs out there. But there are a lot of people who probably try a crappy e-cig and think all e-cigs are like that. They never give it a second thought. I know this is true because I've encountered a few people like this.

A few weeks ago I was at a Christmas party and was outside with my Riva and the smokers. This old guy asked me if that was an e-cig and I asked him if he wanted to try it. He told me he already tried cigarette sized e-cig at an indoor flea market and didn't like the taste. I told him that was probably some cheap model with chinese juice and that he should try my American juice in my Riva. He wasn't interested. Just went on about how he didn't like it. Didn't even want to bother trying mine.

Yes it's his fault for not trying my better e-cig. But the sad fact is his first impression with a cheapo model was so strong it turned him off completely from trying it again. So he's probably going to go on chain smoking Camels for the rest of his life.

ok i get where your coming from now.

i'm not totally offended by these crap models, i'm offended by the price that they have the nerve to charge. it's almost criminal.

considering you can get eGo-style for $30 now, these mall kits should be $10 max. unless you're buying a handmade mod, you shouldn't be spending more than $60 for a kit, tops. if these mall kits were cheap people could write them off as just being cheap crap. but when you're paying $100, you expect $100 product.

i got lucky that i ordered a 510 kit to start with, i damn near chose it blindly. had i come across a kiosk i probably would have gone with that. and in all fairness it would have been my fault for not doing research but i would have chalked it up to a "live&learn" experience instead of writing e-cigs off completely.

 

[Rosco]

I would say ..............
I'm sure tons of people are turned off by a cheap product but not eveyone makes it with the 510's and Kr8's that are very popular on this site. At one time I had about all my friends using one or the other, some tried both and still haven't made it. I even made of box mods for a bunch. I hate to say it but e-cigs only work if you really want them to and if you really want them to work you will find a way.

I didn't mean to offend the Kr8 crowd. I started on a kr8 myself. Honestly I don't care which threading becomes the standard, I would just like to see one of them become the standard. The only reason I picked the 510 is because they have cig sized batteries, eGo sized batteries and most mods are available by default with 510 threading.

Personally I find the Riva 510 with a Boge 2.0 ohm cartomizer to be the best scenario mid range. Far better than the kr8. But then I haven't tried the new kr8 cartomizers so they're probably similar. For those that argue that the kr8 has a better cig sized battery, I agree, but there is nothing stopping manufacturers from putting a 510 thread on those puppies. In fact I'm wondering why this hasn't happened already.

The thing is, we're smart. We all realized there might be better e-cigs out there........Yes it's his fault for not trying my better e-cig. But the sad fact is his first impression with a cheapo model was so strong it turned him off completely from trying it again. So he's probably going to go on chain smoking Camels for the rest of his life.

I agree completely. Speaking for only myself, If and when I want something bad enough, I will go after it and I will get it. If these people really - I mean really want to quit smoking, they'll keep looking until they finally get it. I hope this is true.
Everyone is so different. Allowing all these smokers to really vape using a quality product with quality juice, I think would make all the difference in the world. But it's up to them when the dusts settles. Do they want to quit or not.

Great thread, I really dig this ECF forum. I seem to always learn something new, and I hope I always will. Carry on Crew.

 

[xg4bx]

I agree completely. Speaking for only myself, If and when I want something bad enough, I will go after it and I will get it. If these people really - I mean really want to quit smoking, they'll keep looking until they finally get it. I hope this is true.
Everyone is so different. Allowing all these smokers to really vape using a quality product with quality juice, I think would make all the difference in the world. But it's up to them when the dusts settles. Do they want to quit or not.

Great thread, I really dig this ECF forum. I seem to always learn something new, and I hope I always will. Carry on Crew.

i agree. i guess i come from the school of "if at first you don't succeed...". i've seen plenty of bad movies, 1 stinker doesn't make me shun films. its a learning experience, if you want it bad enough you'll keep looking.

 

[Skyway]

I talked to quite a few people over the weekend and most have tried the kiosk kits and were turned off because they did not like them over time. I was using my Prodigy and a couple of them liked the fact that it was different and caught attention. For those that do not like the bigger mods I always show them the second eGo my wife does not use. That usually will get them interested.
On the other note... I hope they never standardize one thread pattern. I like options and I love my 801's even in the penstyle configuration they are the best way to go for me.
I started with smoking everywhere a long time ago and got tired of the poor performance after a couple of weeks, I was then turned onto the 801 pen and loved it.
Anyone I talk too I let them know there is a learning curve to e-cig but once you find a system that works, it just works.

 

[throatkick]

As with anything there are many trying their hand at this now. In the future, those that are properly capitalized, know how to work the system, make the correct moves etc. will rise to the top. As it stands there are a few majors and tons of minors.
Room for 2-3 more big guys and the end.

As for 510 standardization, as long as adapters exist, it isn' too big of a deal. Besides, we are the ones treating this as a hobby. If the devices are good most will remain loyal to what they initially bought.

 

[roxics]

On the other note... I hope they never standardize one thread pattern. I like options and I love my 801's even in the penstyle configuration they are the best way to go for me.

Yeah but don't you think that even with a standardized thread pattern all these other types of batteries and atomizers could still be created? I mean I'm not saying that everyone has to use only 510 atomizers. I'm saying standardize a thread and then build all kinds of different atomizers and batteries for it so that it's all interchangeable.

 

[throatkick]

Kinda like VHS and Beta right now. Everyone thinks their design is best

 

[mistinthewoods]

Kinda like VHS and Beta right now. Everyone thinks their design is best

And now no one uses either. Things change. Innovation creates jobs. Granted, those jobs are in China but........

 

[Skyway]

Yeah but don't you think that even with a standardized thread pattern all these other types of batteries and atomizers could still be created? I mean I'm not saying that everyone has to use only 510 atomizers. I'm saying standardize a thread and then build all kinds of different atomizers and batteries for it so that it's all interchangeable.

I can see the point of what you are saying and it probably wouldnt be a bad thing but (this is just me being ....) the 801 thread is different in the fact it does not have air holes at the bottom of the threads. I am not sure if this has anything to do with the flavor or if it is just the size of the 801 that does it but I prefer the flavor of an 801 over anything else I have tried. I would not want that to change personally.

 

[rolygate]

One day there will be an Ecigs-r-Us on main street but the volume has to be there first. The market is very immature at the moment.

The more variations, the better - it's more likely that you'll find something you like. And then in three month's time, when you fancy a change, there's always something else to try. There isn't just one brand of coffee or type of coffeemaker, the variation in people's taste, preferences and budget ensure that.

NCC - I haven't visited the local big mall in years... Why would anyone go there?

Ah, you are talking about an FRF or Female Recreational Facility, I believe.

Xg4bx - It may sound silly on the surface but these things truly need to come with a "how to" manual. not just how to charge batteries but truly how to use it. make the purchaser totally aware that it is not a cigarette and your "smoking" behaviors don't apply now.

Too right. One of the very few electronic cigarette research trials clearly stated that they told their subjects "to use the e-cig exactly like a tobacco cigarette". Unsurprisingly, the results of the trial were that they didn't deliver any significant amount of nicotine and basically didn't work. E-cigs are like a car, when you get your first one you need driving lessons or it won't be a whole lot of use to you.

Mind you, the less than exciting results were compounded by the fact they used low-nicotine refills, and some of the kits didn't apear to work at all, although this didn't seem to result in them being exchanged. Electronic cigarettes seem to be regarded as a consumer product like a toaster that anyone can immediately use successfully. A barbecue or a microwave would be better comparisons, a little instruction prevents poor results. Remember your first attempt with a barbecue? And let's not forget the time you tried to boil an egg in the microwave...

Roxics - Yes it's his fault for not trying my better e-cig. But the sad fact is his first impression with a cheapo model was so strong it turned him off completely from trying it again. So he's probably going to go on chain smoking Camels for the rest of his life.

Yup. And that's how the government agencies would like to see electronic cigarettes marketed. There's one supplier alone with over 7,000 variations of e-liquid, if you multiply up the types/flavors/strengths. Then you can multiply that again by the number of basic models you could put that liquid in, to get over 100,000 variations. Then multiply by the cart and carto variants. Add to that the hundreds of very different flavors from other suppliers and you will be into the millions in possible variations available to the consumer. However, this does not impress Big Gov. After all, there may possibly be dangers to public health, and there's no tax revenue to speak of.

 

[kodykills]

My first e-cig was from a gas station, it was an enjoy, and it freaking sucked. I however did not get discouraged because i found the ECF and did some research and well, i found the 510. Then i found mega batts, then i found out how to build a 510 nicostick, and then.... and then i found low resistance cartomizers; now thats heaven in my eyes... But anyways, the point is that usually most people buy their E-cig from a gas station for the first time and they found out it sucks (usually). I guess we all just need to quit our jobs and start working at those stations to educate the public... Whos with me?!?