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Is there nicotine in second hand vapor
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This is from the ECF tutorial-
The strongest normal ecigarette liquid strength, 36mg, is probably equal to a medium cigarette in effective nicotine content, or 'strength' if you like. In order to replicate the TH or 'throat hit' of a higher strength cigarette, various ingredients can be added to the e-liquid recipe. As usual in matters of taste, there are endless debates about what works or what doesn't (and what the negative effects of adding such things might be to the hardware or the user) - but for example more nicotine, more PG (if mainly VG-based), alcohol, cinnamon, menthol, and strong flavors of any kind are commonly added as these may increase the perceived effect.
To make up for the fact that the strongest nicotine strength of eliquid is only equivalent to a medium cigarette, they are used for around twice as long, to accumulate more nicotine. The problem is that the vapor does not penetrate the lungs as deeply as smoke from a tobacco cigarette, so that less nicotine is absorbed by the lungs, and it may mainly come from buccal and nasal absorption (in the mouth and nose). The particle size of the water vapor from an e-cigarette is much larger than the particle size of smoke from a cigarette, which goes more deeply into the lungs.
These factors mean that an e-cigarette 'session' is about twice as long as the time taken to smoke a cigarette, and the vapor is best held in the mouth for a second before being inhaled, and then it is exhaled through the nose. This method gives the maximum potential for extraction of nicotine from the vapor. If an e-cigarette is used in exactly the same way as a cigarette, far less nicotine is available....
However, it is difficult - perhaps impossible - to provide a nicotine strength or liquid volume equivalency between cigarettes and electronic cigarettes, because the nicotine is absorbed less efficiently from e-cigarette vapor than from cigarette smoke, and because there appears to be a variance between the tolerance to nicotine in cigarette smoke and that in vapor (as there is no correlation between the amount people smoked and the e-liquid strength they end up using).
Beginner Tutorial - 2
Could be he is about ready to O.D.
Or it could be that the Absortion Rate for Vapor, Not "Smoke", is Not 99% and he is Actually not Hovering on Death's Doorstep.
A ECF Poll would be Nice to see what type of mg Member's here take in Everyday. I think the Upper end of the Distribution would Surprise Many People.
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The other part of the question, I would think, is how far does vapor travel as compared to smoke? I don't know, but I suspect dramatically less. Even if there's significant nicotine within, say, five feet of the vaping individual, how much is there ten feet away or more?
Thanks for posting this swedishfish.
What I found particularly interesting is the nic levels in that chain vapers blood test. 1) Validates in a round about way that absorbed nic concentrations from second hand vape has to be miniscule. 2) Explains why I didn't have additional cravings to vape cutting my DIY nic level to 12mg from 20mg. My juice just got cheaper!
yes, after reading more, especially what swedishfish has posted...
It appears the nic absorbsion is FAR lower in vapor.
Wow... that means that anyone who has been vaping and not smoking for as little as 2 weeks is likely completely past the chemical addiction of smoking...
Especially if they are vaping like 1-2ml at 16mg or less.
too bad the psychological addiction is equally if not more prevalent.
It appears the nic absorbsion is FAR lower in vapor.
Wow... that means that anyone who has been vaping and not smoking for as little as 2 weeks is likely completely past the chemical addiction of smoking...
Especially if they are vaping like 1-2ml at 16mg or less.
too bad the psychological addiction is equally if not more prevalent.
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Does vape have nic in it? I think probably some yes but cannot prove it and dont care.
We get a yearly water survey of the stuff thats in it in ppm and they comapre it to the safe limit .
Im sure there is lots of stuff in and on our fruits and veggies now a days.
Also the meat must have the hormones and stuff leach into it that the cattle get shot up with.
The air we breath has all sorts of stuff in it such as car and truck and bus exhaust.
In short live your life they way you want to were all different in our ways.
Enjoy it .
We get a yearly water survey of the stuff thats in it in ppm and they comapre it to the safe limit .
Im sure there is lots of stuff in and on our fruits and veggies now a days.
Also the meat must have the hormones and stuff leach into it that the cattle get shot up with.
The air we breath has all sorts of stuff in it such as car and truck and bus exhaust.
In short live your life they way you want to were all different in our ways.
Enjoy it .
This is a ggod point and sometimes Overlooked.
Soething else that is Overlooked when talking about Second Hand Smoke/Vape is that an e-Cigarette does Not emit Vapor when not in use.
Where as an Analog sitting in an ashtray or a Smoker's hand emits Smoke which has not been Filtered by the Analog Filter or the Smoker's Lungs.
I believe part of it has to due with the Size of a Vapor Droplet verses the Size of a Smoke Particle.
Vapor Droplets are Massive compared to Smoke Particles.
Concerning how much nic is absorbed, here's the recent Etter writeup: http://www.stop-tabac.ch/fra/images...p_tabac/e-cig cotinine final erj 20110111.pdf
Experienced vapers using 5 cartridges/refills a day, call it 2.5 - 3 ml/day, of an average 18 mg/ml. Median cotinine level was 322ng/ml. As a comparison, in a prior study, Cotinine in the serum, saliva, and urine of nonsmokers, passive smokers, and active smokers., for smokers (> 10 cig/day) the mean cotinine level was around 283 mg/nl in saliva.
Net, the experienced vapers had cotinine levels pretty similar to active smokers, indicating roughly the same total amount of nicotine being metabolized.
Note that the cotinine levels for smokers were for nominal, just >= 10 cigs/day.
Now, the person who is vaping up near 5 ml of 36 mg/ml/day might be expected to be roughly 4X the level of the vapers from the Etter letter, about twice the ml and twice the mg/ml. Comparing it to the earlier study, that would be around 4X the mean value for the smokers. That would mean it is probably up around the equivalent of 40 - 80 cigs/day worth of nicotine being metabolized (this is just a ballpark), more likely in the higher zone, roughly 3 - 4 packs a day equivalent.
The amount (ml) consumed by the vapers in the Etter letter may well be higher than 2.5 - 3 ml/day, this is just a rough guess, I wish the respondents stated their consumption in ml, but such is life. If they were really vaping more like 5 - 6 ml/day, then that would mean the person vaping 5ml of 36 mg/ml per day would only be metabolizing about the same as, perhaps, 2 PAD.
Net, we do definitely metabolize the nicotine, at least experienced vapers do. For me, I definitely notice it as I'm dropping my nic level, a day or so of increase in consumption that then drops back down to normal. On the other hand, we are also not metabolizing anywhere near 100% of the nicotine, as if we were the vapers would have really high cotinine levels (and we'd all be bouncing off the walls).
The other interesting thing, from the earlier study (the non vaping one), is that it measured non-smokers and passive smokers too. They had non-measurable saliva and plasma cotinine levels, and both groups had measurable, but really tiny, urine cotinine levels.
Hopefully this is of interest
Experienced vapers using 5 cartridges/refills a day, call it 2.5 - 3 ml/day, of an average 18 mg/ml. Median cotinine level was 322ng/ml. As a comparison, in a prior study, Cotinine in the serum, saliva, and urine of nonsmokers, passive smokers, and active smokers., for smokers (> 10 cig/day) the mean cotinine level was around 283 mg/nl in saliva.
Net, the experienced vapers had cotinine levels pretty similar to active smokers, indicating roughly the same total amount of nicotine being metabolized.
Note that the cotinine levels for smokers were for nominal, just >= 10 cigs/day.
Now, the person who is vaping up near 5 ml of 36 mg/ml/day might be expected to be roughly 4X the level of the vapers from the Etter letter, about twice the ml and twice the mg/ml. Comparing it to the earlier study, that would be around 4X the mean value for the smokers. That would mean it is probably up around the equivalent of 40 - 80 cigs/day worth of nicotine being metabolized (this is just a ballpark), more likely in the higher zone, roughly 3 - 4 packs a day equivalent.
The amount (ml) consumed by the vapers in the Etter letter may well be higher than 2.5 - 3 ml/day, this is just a rough guess, I wish the respondents stated their consumption in ml, but such is life. If they were really vaping more like 5 - 6 ml/day, then that would mean the person vaping 5ml of 36 mg/ml per day would only be metabolizing about the same as, perhaps, 2 PAD.
Net, we do definitely metabolize the nicotine, at least experienced vapers do. For me, I definitely notice it as I'm dropping my nic level, a day or so of increase in consumption that then drops back down to normal. On the other hand, we are also not metabolizing anywhere near 100% of the nicotine, as if we were the vapers would have really high cotinine levels (and we'd all be bouncing off the walls).
The other interesting thing, from the earlier study (the non vaping one), is that it measured non-smokers and passive smokers too. They had non-measurable saliva and plasma cotinine levels, and both groups had measurable, but really tiny, urine cotinine levels.
Hopefully this is of interest
I'm not saying that study was inaccurate but they used 32 people and self-reports.
Other than for the small sample size, do you think the people had any reason to not be truthful, to somehow have fudged the saliva samples?
assuming that the nicotine is equally dispersed in a cloud of vapor that your'e inhaling, whatever proportion you exhale should have the equivalent proportion of nicotine remaining in it. the nicotine only gets taken into the system if the vapor gets absorbed, its not like your body is absorbing the nicotine from the vapor and immediately exhaling the pg/vg/water remnants.
No, I don't. I was actually ready to post something else but had 3 interuptions (dog, doorbell, phone) and lost my train of thought. I'm going to read it again and see if I can remember what I was going to ask.
That link and your post were very interesting Mark!
That link and your post were very interesting Mark!
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The thread posted earlier was just one guy (maybe a few more chimed in. I didn't read it all the way through just now) and that was a self report as well. So... I don't know. It's info. It may not be the best, most accurate, or ideally collected data, but it's a little better than guesses.
I did my version of a "scientific" test when I cleaned my TV screen for the first time after only vaping in my home. AMAZING! I've never had the cloth come up so clean!!! Can't say exactly what the difference is, or is not, but since I've never exhaled anything directly on the TV, it sure proves to me the air quality in this house is much improved. . . for all.
So,if I buy a new sound system,it wont *bleep* out because of the *bleep* second hand smoke anymore?
wOOt!
I'm pretty sure Etter is continuing to study vaping, might be doing more trials right now.
I normally wouldn't write such a detailed post in this area, but it's a valid question, so I saw what I could dig up.
I'm an engineer, not a scientist, zero chemistry background.
I normally wouldn't write such a detailed post in this area, but it's a valid question, so I saw what I could dig up.
I'm an engineer, not a scientist, zero chemistry background.
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OK, this is what I was going to ask about and I remember someone in another thread about this topic mentioning this-
And this-
I'm not understanding that.
No, I don't think they're making stuff up anymore than the person that posted their own bw results made it up. I'm trying to figure out why there is such a discrepancy between this study and what people have posted. It's a small study but a small study is better than no study and it's all we can hope for at this point.
And this-
I'm not understanding that.
No, I don't think they're making stuff up anymore than the person that posted their own bw results made it up. I'm trying to figure out why there is such a discrepancy between this study and what people have posted. It's a small study but a small study is better than no study and it's all we can hope for at this point.
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