is this more obamacare related non-sense or company policy

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ad356

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so the company the company put a notice in the bulletin board. next year we will be charged $50 per person health insurance premium increase if we use "tobacco". is this part of obamacare or is this coperate policy? is vaping considered to be "tobacco"? it also goes on to say that they will be kind enough to give you patches or gum...... oh HOW nice (sarcasm). if they really wanted people to quit they would offer FREE EGO starter kits and 24 MG e-liquid, something in-expensive but something that works. it seems like this is another way for big pharma to push in-effective cessation products on people. so is the company responsible for this OR is it the GOVERNMENT?

am i going to be "drug" tested for nicotine? honestly i do not use tobacco no more then someone who uses the patch or gum. i do not feel that i should have to pay $100 per month simply because i choose to use a choice that mostly likely will not cost their health insurance any more money...

by the way the health insurance sucks anyways. $4000 deductable per person. with my wife's COPD it has not paid for a damn thing. so next year i will have to pay an additional $100 for insurance that will not cover anything unless i get extremely ill, and i dont even smoke..... it sends a clear message, i might as well smoke.


outrageous
 

Bunnykiller

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I share your frustration..... vapers use nicotine not tobacco... if they go as far as drug testing for nic, tell them you are an ex smoker and on rare occasions you do the gum.... it will explain the nic in your system when tested :)

and the cost of insurance.... you pay for it but wont have enuf money to see the Dr. makes sense huh? ;)
 

LeftofCenter

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I would just accept the gum or patch like you said. They have no way to tell if the nicotine in your system is from vape or the patch.

This has nothing to do with the Obama Care, companies have been doing this for years, it has just been getting more popular lately.

I think there would be a mutiny at my company if they tried to do this! I work in construction and a vast majority of our employees smoke, they would freak out!
 

ad356

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maybe i should look for another employer. i liked this job at first until they have implemented more and more of the corp polices. they just issued attendance points against someone who was sick, really sick.in fact he was throwing up in a bucket before he left...... he came to work sicker then a dog and they held it against him, and we work with milk. he literally came to work and threw up in a bucket 4 feet away from an open tanker. its clearly a GMP violation for him to be at work, BUT he goes to work because of company policy. when he is so sick that he is a danger to even drive home, he gets an attendance point...... another guy a i work with was 10 minutes late during a severe snow storm, he as issued 1/2 point even though the weather was extremely bad. there is also the issue of someone i work with that was hired full time, recently he was demoted to part time and stripped of all benefits through no fault of his own.


i think im going to start looking elsewhere for a job. i liked this job at first but as they have implemented more and more of their corp policies i like it less and less
 

LeftofCenter

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I have worked for companies like that, the work itself was great and I enjoyed it. The company and the way they treated people was horrid. Sadly they know for every person that walks out the door there are 1000 more lined up willing to work for less money. Sad, really sad. It won't stop until we are reduced to surfs again, I get tired of hearing "just be grateful you have a job".

While I AM grateful to have a job, it doesn't mean I should have to bend over and say thank you!
 

ad356

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the work is OK..... i mean im tired of working with milk i have been doing it for 7 years now..... i want to do something else. i can tollerate the work, lets put it that way. the plant itself is great, nice brand new facility. the management is OK, my direct boss is not so bad, but the upper management and their policies can go to hell. the work is inconsistent, sometimes i have to work 12-13 hour shifts other days are normal 8's and sometimes i go to work with barely anything to do and end up leaving after 3-4 hours. if i work several 12's I WILL get sent home early OR end up with another day OFF. overtime is NOT given not even an hour, so staying 4-5 hours past your normal shift does nothing i will not earn a single cent more. the company expects you to go to work regardless of how sick you are OR how bad the weather is, if there are travel bans you are expected to violate them. i was told to tell law enforcement that i work with perishable products and they would let me go on that...... i doubt that.... essential personnel means fire, police, city plow trucks, ambulance, ect........ milk plant worker, that's a lie


this whole vaping thing is a big MYOB
 

crxess

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Everyone wants the Government to do more.........................HELLO!!!! They are and WE are paying.

Obamacare - NO
FDA - YES

The minute the FDA officially classes e-cigs as TOBACCO Products the insurance companies Will have FREE Reign.
My concern is it seems like we all missed the (Controlling) switch from SMOKING to USING Nicotine products. There is one hell of a difference.
You could probably EAT Cigarettes and have one ten thousandth the chance of developing any of the Smoking related diseases.
 

officer196

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so the company the company put a notice in the bulletin board. next year we will be charged $50 per person health insurance premium increase if we use "tobacco". is this part of obamacare or is this coperate policy? is vaping considered to be "tobacco"? it also goes on to say that they will be kind enough to give you patches or gum...... oh HOW nice (sarcasm). if they really wanted people to quit they would offer FREE EGO starter kits and 24 MG e-liquid, something in-expensive but something that works. it seems like this is another way for big pharma to push in-effective cessation products on people. so is the company responsible for this OR is it the GOVERNMENT?

am i going to be "drug" tested for nicotine? honestly i do not use tobacco no more then someone who uses the patch or gum. i do not feel that i should have to pay $100 per month simply because i choose to use a choice that mostly likely will not cost their health insurance any more money...

by the way the health insurance sucks anyways. $4000 deductable per person. with my wife's COPD it has not paid for a damn thing. so next year i will have to pay an additional $100 for insurance that will not cover anything unless i get extremely ill, and i dont even smoke..... it sends a clear message, i might as well smoke.


outrageous

In short, its neither your company or the government.....Its your insurance. Leaving your employment is an option, but in reality this is very common amongst many insurance and in reality it'll more than likely be the same at your next job.
 

ad356

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i might consider finding something else based on a number of factors, but unfortanatly you are most likely correct on this topic.nanny state be damned we are being stripped of our rights, the right to smoke or even the right to make the better choice, vape. 40 years ago this type of behavior would be un-acceptable, but people have become push-overs.
 

GinnyTx

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I've noticed many of the healthy care agencies have now adopted a "nictoine free" company whereas it was "tobacco free" in previous years.

and OP they're going to give you a urine test more than likely..you CAN ask) we're NOT surf's just yet..although the disappearing middle class would tend to make one sure feel that way and put up with some ..... all in the name of keeping a paycheck (again).


How Long Does Nicotine Stay in your System
The length of time that nicotine stays in the body and cotinine can be a reliable indicator of nicotine use depends on the amount of tobacco smoked, the number of years smoking tobacco, and the type of nicotine test performed. It can be as short as 2 days, or as long as 3 months.

Nicotine Blood Test
Both qualitative and quantitative blood tests can be used to detect nicotine use. Either blood nicotine levels or its presence or absence can be determined. Nicotine, along with its derivatives cotinine and anabasine, can be used for these blood tests. These tests can detect even the slightest traces of nicotine in the bloodstream.

How Long Does Nicotine Stay in your Blood

Nicotine is metabolized into cotinine, which then admixes with blood. Liver detoxification then takes place, facilitating removal of toxins from the blood. This process is slow in comparison to the removal of waste products by the kidney in form of urine, which takes place at a faster rate.

In these blood tests, nicotine is visible usually 1 to 3 days after last use of a nicotine-containing product, such as cigarettes, smokeless tobacco (snuff), and nicotine patches or gum. This may also vary in lieu of the amount of nicotine use, and the individual’s health and age.

On the other hand, when cotinine levels are used for determination, it may take 1 to 10 days until the levels will be undetectable in the blood.

However, a number of reasons can lead to false positive results of nicotine in the blood. These include working at metal refining areas where high levels of thiocyanate present, consumption of thiocyanate containing foods like cabbage, broccoli, almonds and mustards, and intake of medications such as amphetamines. Laboratory errors should also be considered.

Nicotine Urine Test
The standard test for determining nicotine use is thru a urine sample. The test is the most commonly used one, since it is readily available, and is sold over the counter. It detects cotinine, the nicotinine metabolite also used in blood tests.

In this test, a urine sample is collected, in which a strip is dipped for 5 minutes. The result is then read as either positive or negative. The accepted standard cutoff level of 200ng/ml of nicotine is the test’s basis.

How Long Does Nicotine Stay in your Urine
When inhaled, nicotine is converted into cotinine, which together with the body’s wastes products is excreted in the urine. In detecting nicotine and its metabolites in the body, levels remain detectable in the urine only for 3 to 4 days.

However, this may be different for some cases. For passive smokers, urine nicotine test can be positive for as long as 15 to 20 days. Cotinine may also take longer to be excreted with wastes if menthol cigarettes are used.

Nicotine Saliva Test
This is said to be the most accurate nicotine test and is most preferred. It does not only eliminate the need to handle urine specimens, but it can also provide an approximate amount of tobacco used by the person. It can detect levels 0 to 2,000ng/ml of nicotine, a range lower than that can be determined by the urine test.

In this test, a person must provide a saliva sample, in which a strip is soaked for 20 minutes. The saliva then reacts with cotinine, indicating different levels of cotinine and suggesting the amount of nicotine exposure.

How Long Does Nicotine Stay in your Saliva
Cotinine, the nicotine metabolite used in the saliva test, has a longer half life than nicotine itself. It can be detected in the saliva more than 10 hours, even as long as 2 to 4 days.
How to Effectively Clear Nicotine From the Body
Nicotine is a stimulant and is highly addictive. But even in the presence of withdrawal symptoms, quitting can be feasible. The following are means with which nicotine can be cleared off from the body, and in the process, avoid nicotine withdrawal syndrome effectively:
Plenty of water must be consumed. The more water consumed, the more nicotine released from the body thru the urine.
Eat fruits and vegetables. They are antioxidants, with high fiber and water content. They can help metabolize the nicotine out of the system.
Exercise. It improves circulation and enables the body to release toxins thru sweat, making nicotine removal faster.
Eat foods such as garlic, onions and egg yolks. These increase bile production in the liver, helpful in toxin and nicotine removal.
Dr Kiran Molli, 5/2013, Healthblogger.com

good luck!
 

englishmick

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In short, its neither your company or the government.....Its your insurance. Leaving your employment is an option, but in reality this is very common amongst many insurance and in reality it'll more than likely be the same at your next job.

That's the way it is. I came to America 25 years ago and I got great health care through my company. It's been going downhill slowly and steadily ever since. Now I have the same junk coverage as OP. I'm lucky. Another 9 months and I can get into Medicare, which is at least a bit closer to a rational health care delivery system.

As long as we have the giant health insurance parasite sucking the juice out of health care it will be this way, ridiculously expensive and worthless. We might be better off asking the Mafia to control access to health care. They wouldn't dare take as big a cut as health insurance does, and it wouldn't be hard for them to do a better job.

Insurance opposes vaping for the same reason as Pharma. They both stand to lose a bunch of money if vaping takes off.

Words have power. If they can persuade people to talk about nicotine rather than tobacco, they can ensure a lot of people will be down on it. Just like Big Insurance wants us to talk about health insurance rather than health care, as though they were the same thing.

I'm not a huge fan of the way Obamacare turned out. But it's at least a first step towards breaking the death grip of big Insurance. So OP, I don't think we should blame Obamacare, or even our companies, for the stuff we have to put up with.
 

Jman8

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so the company the company put a notice in the bulletin board. next year we will be charged $50 per person health insurance premium increase if we use "tobacco". is this part of obamacare or is this coperate policy? is vaping considered to be "tobacco"? it also goes on to say that they will be kind enough to give you patches or gum...... oh HOW nice (sarcasm). if they really wanted people to quit they would offer FREE EGO starter kits and 24 MG e-liquid, something in-expensive but something that works. it seems like this is another way for big pharma to push in-effective cessation products on people. so is the company responsible for this OR is it the GOVERNMENT?

am i going to be "drug" tested for nicotine? honestly i do not use tobacco no more then someone who uses the patch or gum. i do not feel that i should have to pay $100 per month simply because i choose to use a choice that mostly likely will not cost their health insurance any more money...

by the way the health insurance sucks anyways. $4000 deductable per person. with my wife's COPD it has not paid for a damn thing. so next year i will have to pay an additional $100 for insurance that will not cover anything unless i get extremely ill, and i dont even smoke..... it sends a clear message, i might as well smoke.


outrageous

In answer to the first question, I would say it is mostly corporate policy that is heavily influenced by them who support Obama admin style of politics.

If possible, I would seek to drop insurance from your employer (assuming you are sticking with this employer).

This type of insurance, especially in age when pre-existing conditions have been squarely dealt with, strikes me as so blatantly discriminatory, I think it deserves a revolt. I would hope principled non-nicotine users would join such a revolt, but given how important health care can be to some people (in the short term), then it would be a test of wills.

I would think you could easily find a plan to match the one you currently have through the company, though not so sure you could easily find one that doesn't have rider on the nicotine issue. Pretty sure you could though. Once that cord is cut, then corporate will have to find another way to harass you into submission.
 

AndriaD

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and the cost of insurance.... you pay for it but wont have enuf money to see the Dr. makes sense huh? ;)

This is EXACTLY why I don't have insurance -- if we paid for that, we couldn't even buy FOOD! And a $6k deductible? When the MOST I ever spend on my normal medical care/medicine is less than $1k a year? Get serious. :facepalm:

Yeah, sometimes there are emergencies -- like my appendix last year. With no insurance, the hospital knocked my bill from +$25,000 to $889; the anesthesiologist knocked my bill from $1800 to $65; the lab dismissed my bill completely, and even the surgeon took $900 off the total $2500. So I'm done with the anesthesiologist, and still paying $25/mo to the hospital, and $20/mo to the surgeon. What those price knock-downs tell me is that they're all charging WAY too much to start with, or they wouldn't be ABLE to knock the prices down like that.

Andria
 
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