is this more obamacare related non-sense or company policy

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englishmick

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I would think you could easily find a plan to match the one you currently have through the company, though not so sure you could easily find one that doesn't have rider on the nicotine issue. Pretty sure you could though. Once that cord is cut, then corporate will have to find another way to harass you into submission.

I'm kind of hopeful about this happening in the long term. Company insurance plans are getting so bad right now that people won't have much choice but to look elsewhere. I work for a company that operates group homes. The staff in the homes get just above minimum wage, and insurance payments plus deductible comes to over half their take home pay. Most of them have given up using doctors except for emergencies. I know quite a few of them who have started vaping just to save money, because cigs are one large expense they can cut. Of course the cost isn't a big deal for the managers who make the decisions. Their costs are the same as their minimum wage employees, but they earn enough that they can pay up and go on getting health care.

Maybe if enough people move into the private market they would start to offer policies a bit better than the overpriced junk policies available today. I don't know about the nicotine angle though. No idea how that will turn out.
 

Jman8

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It used to be that health insurance from a company was a significant benefit.

Now it seems like a burden. A $4000 deductible. Seriously, how could that possibly be explained as a benefit other than consideration of catastrophic situation. Everything short of that, and it is a burden.

Then add in policy that OP of this thread presents and the argument for "it is a burden" becomes super duper easy to make.
 

bluecat

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It is Obamacare, but they don;t necessarily have to increase your premium. Go to the exchanges. A smoker can pay double what a non-smoker can pay. They have to do it. Obamacare can't be funded if they do not... That is why no one can opt out either.

Notice I say can. They don't have to. The states have to fund medicare and pay a certain amount. If certain things don't happen the states lose federal funding. It like the bully's of old that would have shopkeepers pay so that the bully would steal from them.
 

englishmick

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I forsee a collapse coming. The country is becoming a disaster area. People can't afford 6000.00 deductibles and 450.00 payments on insurance each month. Too many are lucky if they can put food on the table. Stock up on as much as you can.

I might not have food but I'll have a 10 year supply of nicotine in the freezer, at least in the metal box that used to be a freezer until the power went out. Maybe I can barter nic for food. I might have to improvise a dripper from a coke can on the barbecue grill to vape though.
 

ad356

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the vaping is only part of whats annoying me. the general manager sits in his office and watches cameras. if he doesnt like what he sees or hears he pokes his fat head out and complains. he doesnt really have legitimate complaints either, its not like people arent doing their jobs, he nit picks everything. yesterday my boss gave me permission to stay late and make up the hours. later the general manager starts questioning me, tells me that he doesnt want "people making up their hours". i called my boss, and he said he would talk to the general manager. it came down to my supervisor allowing me to stay and have the ultimate say. i got my 40 hour paycheck. this general manager is a meddling ....., i do not like him. he comes off as a nice guy but actions speak louder then words. im afraid that this guy ultimately had the finicial say in what goes on. this bean-counter is going to entice me to find another job, if i leave other people will probably follow. this plant will not operate without the employees and we are not as easy to replace as they think. try training a couple of new people with management that has never actually done the work. i have worked in the industry for 7 years, my co-worker grew up on a farm and hauled milk for many years, he had never worked in a plant but had a strong foundation. i knew him before i worked in this plant, he brought milk to my previous job, we knew each other to begin with and knew that we would work well together. try finding that again, a ready made team made up of two people that had already worked together in some capacity. if i left he would probably go back to hauling milk.

the vaping part is only part of the story, their are many other things that suck about this place. they actually have a "corporate compliance line", a line to rat out your fellow employees to big management, an attendance policy that gives NO credence to circumstances like bad weather or illness (even when you go to work sick), an insurance policy with a sky high deductible that you will never meet, a general manager that micro manages the people that he employees despite the fact the real problems are brought on by him not selling enough product AND not the people that are doing the work.

vaping is only part of the problem
 

v1k1ng1001

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The problem isn't obamacare.

The problem is that we, as a society, invest in/subsidize physician education, pharmaceutical companies and medical technologies. While all of this is great, it effectively causes health care costs to rise much faster than economic growth--i.e. we can't keep and haven't been keeping up since the 1960s.

In response, the Nixon administration effectively dismantled the regulations protecting Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and established the current HMO system we have today under the reasoning that competition would drive down prices. Unfortunately, this did not slow costs, it accelerated them due to the fact that one BCBS was replaced by iterated inefficient corporate bureacracies that like to spend more on marketing than on services provided. HMOs, it turns out, do not compete so much as they ciricle the wagons, price-fixing style, and coordinate through shared lobbying agencies.

Obamacare, believe it or not, was designed to put a band aid on problems of access, especially for those with pre-existing conditions. The original idea was to offer a public option through medicaid/medicare--which would have driven down HMO prices. Unfortunately, the lobbyists from the industry spent enough so that the public option was stripped from the ACA when it passed. Obama fought for the public option, but the lobby had so many congressmen in its pocket that, ultimately, the ACA/Obamacare, as it was ammended (actually re-written by the industry lobby) ended up expanding the HMO customer base via mandate w/out offering any way of driving down the prices.

Hence it is no surprise to me that HMOs are trying to take us vapers for a ride. It's just what they do--extract as much wealth as possible from us while providing as few services as possible.

Meanwhile our peer nations have a chuckle as they provide universal access and better health care outcomes at a fraction of the cost. For example, US citizens spend, on average, $8000 per person/per year on health care (18% of our GDP)--shouldering the highest costs in the world. Meanwhile 1/3 of our ciizens are uninsured or underinsured and our healthcare outcomes are 37th behind Slovenia. We have the best doctors, technology, pharamaceuticals--but if 1/3 of our population can only gain access to them under catastrophic conditions, it creates extraordinary inefficiency and expenditure for the population.

Norway spends roughly $5000 per person/per year (comparatively lower when you consider their per capita average income is $20,000 higher--roughly 11% of GDP). They are able to cover everyone and their health outcomes are 11th in the world.

The saddest part is that the debate in the US is: does Obamacare suck or not? Or: is the government stealing my money? This debate is being framed by HMO lobbyists and their PR firms.

The real debate should be: what is Norway doing and how can we do that?

Would you really oppose the "socialism" of a system like Norway's if it put $4000 back into your pocket, freed up 7% of our GDP for investment in economic growth (i.e. a lot more jobs, better jobs), provided access universally, all while increasing the health of everyone?
 

skoony

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some states let the insurance companies decide.
some states decide for them.
a bright spot is some insurance companies are starting to get
it and offer no premium increase plus they will throw in on a
starter kit if you switch from smoking to vaping.
as far as health insurance goes we no longer have health
insurance. we have the right to pay out big bucks and pay
your own costs anyway unless you get hit by a very big bus lottery.
:2c:
regards
mike
 

BigCatDaddy

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so the company the company put a notice in the bulletin board. next year we will be charged $50 per person health insurance premium increase if we use "tobacco". is this part of obamacare or is this coperate policy? is vaping considered to be "tobacco"? it also goes on to say that they will be kind enough to give you patches or gum...... oh HOW nice (sarcasm). if they really wanted people to quit they would offer FREE EGO starter kits and 24 MG e-liquid, something in-expensive but something that works. it seems like this is another way for big pharma to push in-effective cessation products on people. so is the company responsible for this OR is it the GOVERNMENT?

am i going to be "drug" tested for nicotine? honestly i do not use tobacco no more then someone who uses the patch or gum. i do not feel that i should have to pay $100 per month simply because i choose to use a choice that mostly likely will not cost their health insurance any more money...

by the way the health insurance sucks anyways. $4000 deductable per person. with my wife's COPD it has not paid for a damn thing. so next year i will have to pay an additional $100 for insurance that will not cover anything unless i get extremely ill, and i dont even smoke..... it sends a clear message, i might as well smoke.


outrageous

Count yourself lucky. Some companies use " No nicotine products" in their excuse to charge you more for your insurance. With that verbage they can random drug test you and if you test positive for nicotine, they can raise your rates. And yes, most companies offer catastrophic coverage only to keep their rates low.
 
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