Issues With ZAP (FIRE!)

[Judge Dredd]

As I noted in my earlier thread here: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/provari/376561-got-my-second-provari-zap.html

I am having issues with my ZAP. When I got it in the mail, I followed Zen's instructions and put some 80/20 (PG/VG) juice in it and it was wicking quite well. I emptied that out, put some 100% VG juice in it, and after only a few puffs (yes, tilting, waiting to see if juice leaks, etc.), I get an awful taste and an extremely harsh throat hit (more of a scratch).

I re-wicked it using 325, and re-coiled it, and using another 100% VG juice, am trying, to no avail, to get this thing to wick, and I can't do it. It's so dry, that if I fire it for more than a couple seconds, the coil and wick catch fire. LOL.

What...the hell...do I do?

 

[dgm76513]

How many ohms did it ring out? Did you double-check for hot spots?

Try lowering the voltage a bit if there are no hot spots?

Do you want me to call fire marshall Bill?

 

[yellowrider]

sounds like you have your coils to close. Make sure your wick is properly oxidized as well. I think these rba's need some coil tapping from time to time. I just take a look before my 1st vape of the day and make adjustment as needed. But the poster before me covered everything.

 

[EDO]

Assuming you set it up properly....you might need to make your wicks more solid. When using the straw like wicks that come with ZAP you need to do the genesis tilt for them to wick properly.

 

[Trick]

Sounds to me like your coil is fine and you're just getting dry hits -- and that's an easy thing to solve.

When using it, you'll need to occasionally tilt it up so juice can flow down the wick. It's less of an issue once the wick's broken in, but you'll definitely need to do it at least for the first tank or two.

Apologies if you know this already -- took me several dry hits to figure it out when I started with Genesis attys (the first of which for me was a ZAP).

 

[cigarbabe]

I'm sure if you ask in the Zenesis thread someone will have had the exact problem and will sort it out for you if these great suggestions above don't help! Here is the link for the last page.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/electronicstix/348800-zen-family-reunion-324.html
C.B.

 

[Judge Dredd]

How many ohms did it ring out?

It's coming in at about 1.5-1.7. Which is fine with me because I have a ProVari!

Did you double-check for hot spots?

Yep! All coils glowing perfectly!

Try lowering the voltage a bit if there are no hot spots?

Didn't affect anything

Do you want me to call fire marshall Bill?

LOL!

sounds like you have your coils to close. Make sure your wick is properly oxidized as well. I think these rba's need some coil tapping from time to time. I just take a look before my 1st vape of the day and make adjustment as needed. But the poster before me covered everything.

I thought that was perhaps the case (did some reading), but in fact, my coils are far enough apart that I can't get more than four to five wraps. Wicks came oxidized.

Assuming you set it up properly....you might need to make your wicks more solid. When using the straw like wicks that come with ZAP you need to do the genesis tilt for them to wick properly.

I have been tilting, spinning, and all sorts of other acrobatics with this thing, and no matter what I do, it will NOT wick 100% VG juice. Now, throw in some PG/VG (with PG being the dominant cutter), and it wicks and vapes like a dream.

Sounds to me like your coil is fine and you're just getting dry hits -- and that's an easy thing to solve.

When using it, you'll need to occasionally tilt it up so juice can flow down the wick. It's less of an issue once the wick's broken in, but you'll definitely need to do it at least for the first tank or two.

Apologies if you know this already -- took me several dry hits to figure it out when I started with Genesis attys (the first of which for me was a ZAP).

No problem! All advice is appreciated! I have been doing the tilt, and with PG-based juices it works great! Unfortunately, all of my juices are 100% VG, and it will NOT wick them.

I'm sure if you ask in the Zenesis thread someone will have had the exact problem and will sort it out for you if these great suggestions above don't help! Here is the link for the last page.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/electronicstix/348800-zen-family-reunion-324.html
C.B.

I'm not using a Zenesis, so maybe they wouldn't like me chiming in with my ProVari. :/

 

[ninfreak]

that place is for anything zen...and everything not lol. the zap is a zen product is it not?

100% vg can be rough on a genny without any thinning. my advice, which is conterintutive from my normal fat wicks rule mentality is to have a straw like wick(not zens wicks as those are aweful, they need to be like 4 times as dense meshwise and still have a hole) for heavy vg juices. and also to note i use 400+ on everything, even 100% vg

 

[Judge Dredd]

that place is for anything zen...and everything not lol. the zap is a zen product is it not?

100% vg can be rough on a genny without any thinning. my advice, which is conterintutive from my normal fat wicks rule mentality is to have a straw like wick(not zens wicks as those are aweful, they need to be like 4 times as dense meshwise and still have a hole) for heavy vg juices. and also to note i use 400+ on everything, even 100% vg

Where can I pick up some of this straw-like wick?

 

[pAth77]

Don't bother with the wicks that came with your ZAP. I never got good performance with them and my juices are all 60% VG or more. The best results I've had with the ZAP were by removing the insulator (to widen the wick hole), making a coil using the drill bit method (1/8" bit), and a solid #400 mesh wick. I've also used a hybrid wick (1.5mm silica wick on the inside and #400 mesh on the outside). Wicking wasn't as good as the solid mesh (but it was close) and you also avoid/minimize the heat sink issue that you get with solid wicks.

 

[Judge Dredd]

Don't bother with the wicks that came with your ZAP. I never got good performance with them and my juices are all 60% VG or more. The best results I've had with the ZAP were by removing the insulator (to widen the wick hole)

How do I do that? It looks like a solid piece of plastic and I don't want to ruin this thing.

making a coil using the drill bit method (1/8" bit)

How would I do that as well?

 

[pAth77]

How do I do that? It looks like a solid piece of plastic and I don't want to ruin this thing.

All I did was to use the allen wrench that came with the ZAP to push the insulator out of the wick hole. I did it under running water, and with a bit of force it slid right out without damaging it.

How would I do that as well?

HERE is a link that has videos in post #2. The Petar K method has been the best method (for me) to set up a gen atty. With the insulator removed, the ZAP was a bit more finicky with hot spots than other gen atties I have. But if you're familiar with gen atties, then it doesn't take too long to figure it out.

Before removing the insulator, I would suggest you try making a solid #400 or #500 wick first to see if you get better wicking with your 100% VG juices.

 

[Judge Dredd]

All I did was to use the allen wrench that came with the ZAP to push the insulator out of the wick hole. I did it under running water, and with a bit of force it slid right out without damaging it.



HERE is a link that has videos in post #2. The Petar K method has been the best method (for me) to set up a gen atty. With the insulator removed, the ZAP was a bit more finicky with hot spots than other gen atties I have. But if you're familiar with gen atties, then it doesn't take too long to figure it out.

Before removing the insulator, I would suggest you try making a solid #400 or #500 wick first to see if you get better wicking with your 100% VG juices.

Thanks for the info! Is removing the insulator permanent?

 

[j4mmin42]

pAth did awesome helping out on this one.

I disagree completely with Zens methods- some people have great luck and don't mind having to tilt their PV every time they take a drag, but for the rest of us, A good, solid, wide 400 or 500 mesh wick, used without the ZAP's insulator, should solve your issues. Don't go for lower res wire until you get the 32 gauge to work properly on your 'vari. 30 gauge is probably the "sweet spot" for regulated genesis vapes, with the resistance somewhere around 1.2-1.5 ohms, and voltage set fairly low (below 4.5).

Removing the insulator is not permanent, just toss it in a side drawer until you end up selling the ZAP to be able to afford a Caravela/Foggatti

Also, I don't recommend the DBM or the Petar-K method. It's a short-cut that will prevent you from using your device to its full capabilities.

 

[Judge Dredd]

pAth did awesome helping out on this one.

I disagree completely with Zens methods- some people have great luck and don't mind having to tilt their PV every time they take a drag, but for the rest of us, A good, solid, wide 400 or 500 mesh wick, used without the ZAP's insulator, should solve your issues. Don't go for lower res wire until you get the 32 gauge to work properly on your 'vari. 30 gauge is probably the "sweet spot" for regulated genesis vapes, with the resistance somewhere around 1.2-1.5 ohms, and voltage set fairly low (below 4.5).

Removing the insulator is not permanent, just toss it in a side drawer until you end up selling the ZAP to be able to afford a Caravela/Foggatti

Also, I don't recommend the DBM or the Petar-K method. It's a short-cut that will prevent you from using your device to its full capabilities.

Okay. I'll look into this. I'm really trying to avoid purchasing anything else for the time being. (I'm unemployed; $30 in my checking account), and so I really need to cut costs.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[j4mmin42]

if you need help determining how to use any of the vape stuff you already have, let me know. I'm a master at turning crappy vape gear into most-awesome setups.

 

[Judge Dredd]

if you need help determining how to use any of the vape stuff you already have, let me know. I'm a master at turning crappy vape gear into most-awesome setups.

Thanks! I think I've got it figured out for the most part with all the help I've been getting. Until I can afford to screw up wicks and coils a bit, I am going to have to purchase PG-heavy juice and use the PG-heavy juice I have. Which sucks because I just got 150mL of VG juice.

 

[anavidfan]

The only thing that no has chimed in with is the thread count on your mesh. Maybe the mesh porosity is fine for the juice you put in but for the thick juice it has to be less threads. I know that for thick juice you can use 300 or 400 and for thin juice you need a higher amount of threads, like 500-600. Im in no way an expert as I dont own a Genesis for this exact reason. Im a creature of habit and dont have the dexterity to go thru all that work. Im used to my silica wick set up and I dont want to teach myself a new trick.

Thats the only thing that can account for the fact that your thin juice works perfect and the VG doenst wick.

 

[NayrTrawe]

Everyone else who already replied knows much more about this than me but I thought I would chime in real quick. I just got a ZAP myself and I was having a miserable time getting Boba's Bounty (100% VG) wicking with the pre-installed 400x400 wick. I went ahead and removed the pre-installed wick and coil and switched over to one of the 325x325 wicks that was included - this solved my problem completely and I didn't need to remove the insulator. It is important to note that the coil that was pre-installed was at about 1.8 ohms and the one I wrapped myself is 2.3 ohms. I actually prefer the resistance to be at about 3.0 ohms so I ordered kanthal in gauges that will allow me to do that with the same number of wraps.

I have noticed that I need to dry burn the coil to get gunk off about once a day and I attribute this to the 100% VG juice I use. I have also needed to adjust the coil a couple times when hot spots cropped up so it may be worth trying that. I am learning that coil maintenance is just part of using a Genesis style atomizer.

I am completely new at this but my advice would be to try to work with the materials supplied with the ZAP until you get the results you are looking for. On my first day with the device I got tremendously frustrated but all was well with a little tinkering. Best of luck to you!

 

[Rymarski]

pAth did awesome helping out on this one.

I disagree completely with Zens methods- some people have great luck and don't mind having to tilt their PV every time they take a drag, but for the rest of us, A good, solid, wide 400 or 500 mesh wick, used without the ZAP's insulator, should solve your issues. Don't go for lower res wire until you get the 32 gauge to work properly on your 'vari. 30 gauge is probably the "sweet spot" for regulated genesis vapes, with the resistance somewhere around 1.2-1.5 ohms, and voltage set fairly low (below 4.5).

Removing the insulator is not permanent, just toss it in a side drawer until you end up selling the ZAP to be able to afford a Caravela/Foggatti

Also, I don't recommend the DBM or the Petar-K method. It's a short-cut that will prevent you from using your device to its full capabilities.

I just switched out the 400 ss mesh for 325 ss mesh. Left the insulator in and wrapped my coil using the drill bit method. Also I unwrapped Zens 325 mesh and made it a bit thicker. Also oxidized it some more. Put some 100% VG juice into it and currently having a fantastic vape. Very smooth and no dry hits.

Just curious what you mean by short-cut though? I'm also new to genesis atomizers and want to use them to there full capabilities.