It is IMPORTANT to Vape in PUBLIC

[Uncle Willie]

Seeing the hostility that develops between people who are supposed to on the same team side reinforces how nasty the vaping issue is likely to get in the future when it comes to the forefront and opposing sides really start facing off. Before I joined here last month, I had no idea there was so much contention over the issue and I doubt 99% of population realizes it either. Interesting times coming up as the vapers increase exponentially.

Yep, it does make you wonder .. personally, I'm not interested in giving a mini-seminar impromptu whenever the issue comes up .. living in State with a ban on smoking everywhere indoors pretty much other than private homes .. when it looks liike smoke, folks think it's smoke .. that's a natural reaction .. I'd spend half my life explaining and then a large portion of the populace would still not get it and would not care ..

So, I abide by the rule of common courtesy ..

 

[tinajfreeman]

Yep, it does make you wonder .. personally, I'm not interested in giving a mini-seminar impromptu whenever the issue comes up .. living in State with a ban on smoking everywhere indoors pretty much other than private homes .. when it looks liike smoke, folks think it's smoke .. that's a natural reaction .. I'd spend half my life explaining and then a large portion of the populace would still not get it and would not care ..

So, I abide by the rule of common courtesy ..

I am curious as to why you think it is discourteous to vape in public? vaping is safe and inoffensive? I understand not wanting to give a mini-seminar...I am not big on drawing attention to myself either. But why would vaping be a violation of common courtesy?

Just curious.

 

[Maestro]

He probably just doesn't want to deal with the attention. Here's an analogy

 

[tinajfreeman]

He probably just doesn't want to deal with the attention. Here's an analogy

I get not wanting attention...I don't get the "common courtesy" part. What part of vaping is not common courtesy?

 

[MickeyRat]

It's actually funny the way people react. I was in a small store about an hour ago. It was a quick trip and I didn't vape in there until I was checking out. Without thinking about it, I had my Reo mini in my hand (it's there a lot) and I set it on the counter to pay. The guy checking me out asked, "What is that thing?" There wasn't anyone in the store so I demonstrated and said, "I can legally do this in here but, I wouldn't if you objected."

There proceeded a fairly lengthy conversation about what it was and how it worked and how there was no smoke involved. How it was safer than smoking. He was having me show it to other employees, etc. I opened the back and showed him the battery and how the juice feed worked. I explained what was in the juice and the different flavors that are available.

After all that, I get the question you always get, "So, when are you going to quit smoking?"

I just said, "Really, I might use nicotine but, I am not smoking."

 

[sailorman]

Seeing the hostility that develops between people who are supposed to on the same side reinforces how nasty the vaping issue is likely to get in the future when it comes to the forefront and opposing sides really start facing off. Before I joined here last month, I had no idea there was so much contention over the issue and I doubt 99% of population realizes it either. Interesting times coming up as the vapers increase exponentially.

I don't know why you'd be concerned about it. I have no intention of forcing anyone to vape in public and I doubt the timid vapers are going to insist I stop vaping in public.

The only interesting times coming up are when the regulations and bans are proposed. Some of us will actively fight them and some of us will roll over. Some don't feel bans are justified and some are content to be lumped in with smokers. Some of us think of ourselves as non-smokers and some of us haven't made that mental adjustment.

We have internal disagreements, but that's not going to matter when the hammer comes down. All that will matter is how many of us will stand up and how many will roll over. That won't affect how nasty the issue is likely to get, that'll just affect how easy it is for the antis to kick us to the curb and how hard they can beat up on us when we're lying there.

But between vapers, none of us is going to know how much credit or blame to assign to one another for whatever happens. So there can really be nothing to get nasty about within our own camp.

The real contention is between us and the antis. To the extent we prevent draconian laws and regulations, some of us will be instrumental and some of us will be riding coattails. But whatever happens, nobody will be walking around with a big red "A" for appeaser stamped on his chest.

 

[MissThree33]

In this day and age, having clouds of anything floating around your head is taboo. It's culturally unacceptable. Think about other perfectly harmless things that are socially unacceptable... how hard is to break those taboos? People are weird, and changing their minds about something in mass effect is pretty difficult.

I was happy last night to see the show Alcatraz feature a DOCTOR character using a PV. And that the response from the character that asked him about it was generally accepting. MORE of this kind of positive exposure will lead to a change of attitudes very quickly.

 

[sailorman]

I am curious as to why you think it is discourteous to vape in public? Vaping is safe and inoffensive? I understand not wanting to give a mini-seminar...I am not big on drawing attention to myself either. But why would vaping be a violation of common courtesy?

Just curious.

Some people never come to the full realization that they're not smokers anymore. They don't think of vaping as inoffensive. All I can figure is that they think since people have a right to be offended by smoking, and they're still smokers, then people have a right to be offended by anything they do that looks like smoking.

Fact is, public vaping is not a violation of common courtesy. Common courtesy does not require one to anticipate and spare every random stranger from every perceived offense, no matter how baseless. That's not courtesy, that's servility and obsequiousness.

 

[sailorman]

In this day and age, having clouds of anything floating around your head is taboo. It's culturally unacceptable. Think about other perfectly harmless things that are socially unacceptable... how hard is to break those taboos? People are weird, and changing their minds about something in mass effect is pretty difficult. ....

Anything?? Having clouds of smoke floating around your head is taboo. You just made up that part about "anything". What else besides smoke is it taboo to have floating around your head? Vaping hasn't been around long enough to form taboos about it. If we keep acting like it's smoke though, they'll form soon enough.

And changing minds en mass is not that difficult. It happens all the time in politics. People are swayed to change their minds 180 degrees on an issue within weeks. It's quite common, actually. If we, as vapers, could afford to hire the big time PR firms that are routinely used by corporations, we could have people thinking vaping is the greatest thing since sliced bread by this time next year.

 

[wv2win]

In this day and age, having clouds of anything floating around your head is taboo. It's culturally unacceptable. Think about other perfectly harmless things that are socially unacceptable... how hard is to break those taboos? People are weird, and changing their minds about something in mass effect is pretty difficult.

I was happy last night to see the show Alcatraz feature a DOCTOR character using a PV. And that the response from the character that asked him about it was generally accepting. MORE of this kind of positive exposure will lead to a change of attitudes very quickly.

Nothing will change if we hide in corners to vape and give the general public the impression that vaping and smoking are the exact same thing. But I agree with you that the positive exposure on TV is helpful. It's unfortunate that some want others to stand up to the zealots and are not willing to help in this fight.

 

[wv2win]

I don't know why you'd be concerned about it. I have no intention of forcing anyone to vape in public and I doubt the timid vapers are going to insist I stop vaping in public.

The only interesting times coming up are when the regulations and bans are proposed. Some of us will actively fight them and some of us will roll over. Some don't feel bans are justified and some are content to be lumped in with smokers. Some of us think of ourselves as non-smokers and some of us haven't made that mental adjustment.

We have internal disagreements, but that's not going to matter when the hammer comes down. All that will matter is how many of us will stand up and how many will roll over. That won't affect how nasty the issue is likely to get, that'll just affect how easy it is for the antis to kick us to the curb and how hard they can beat up on us when we're lying there.

But between vapers, none of us is going to know how much credit or blame to assign to one another for whatever happens. So there can really be nothing to get nasty about within our own camp.

The real contention is between us and the antis. To the extent we prevent draconian laws and regulations, some of us will be instrumental and some of us will be riding coattails. But whatever happens, nobody will be walking around with a big red "A" for appeaser stamped on his chest.

Excellent insight!!

 

[kwalka]

Today, for the 3rd time this week, I sat in a waiting room full of people, @ a dr's office. There was about 6 people directly in front of me, and 6-8 behind. All in earshot. I proclaimed "anybody here smoke?" Immediately one guy reaches in his shirt pocket to pull out a donation. I stopped him and pulled out my eGo w a 5ml tank. After about 5 mins I had at least 6 people writing down the 3 most important letters...ECF! When I finally left a few minutes later, I felt like a preacher or a priest must feel after helping guide some disenchanted folks. People were like thank you so much, and god bless.
The unnecessary back and forth amongst ourselves here recently seems IMO to be a very small group with a chip on their shoulder, and an interest in attacking one or two particular members, just for the sake of jealously, and ignorance.
Do not assume you know who I'm specifically referring to. There is one member here who knows and you know who you are.

The point I was originally going to make when I began this post was that, yes this back and forth amongst ourselves here is sometimes off track and unnecessary. But lets get our ducks in a row as a group w a voice because like it or not, inside or out, no matter how you cut it, in the end you cant argue with saving lives and thats what this boils down to.
(I just woke up and I did not re-read this b4 posting, hope I made sense)

 

[MissThree33]

So, where I live, vaping is prohibited by law everywhere smoking is, so for me, it doesn't matter. I'm put out in the rain with everyone else by law. I'm not saying the laws and prohibitions are ok, they clearly are not. What I speak to is the social taboo hanging over your head and the perception that it's somehow wrong whether it is or not. That's a hard perception to change these days.

The only thing that's really going to change that perception is someone important, respectable, and media saturated coming out in FULL and LOUD support of it. That someone has to be a person that a large chunk of people admire. People are that media addicted and want that badly to be told how to think.

 

[kwalka]

Yep, it does make you wonder .. personally, I'm not interested in giving a mini-seminar impromptu whenever the issue comes up .. living in State with a ban on smoking everywhere indoors pretty much other than private homes .. when it looks liike smoke, folks think it's smoke .. that's a natural reaction .. I'd spend half my life explaining and then a large portion of the populace would still not get it and would not care ..

So, I abide by the rule of common courtesy ..

I also abide by the same rule, rather than approaching mgmt in a public area....
I also live in the same kind of state...
My wife, 4 kids, and myself are very greatfull that somebody took the extra 5 mins to give an "impromptu seminar". We all believe it helped save my life, or at least add years on the end. So i will take the extra 5 mins every chance I get

 

[kwalka]

So, where I live, vaping is prohibited by law everywhere smoking is, so for me, it doesn't matter. I'm put out in the rain with everyone else by law. I'm not saying the laws and prohibitions are ok, they clearly are not. What I speak to is the social taboo hanging over your head and the perception that it's somehow wrong whether it is or not. That's a hard perception to change these days.

The only thing that's really going to change that perception is someone important, respectable, and media saturated coming out in FULL and LOUD support of it. That someone has to be a person that a large chunk of people admire. People are that media addicted and want that badly to be told how to think.

Yes, that will help a lot, and in the end its going to take that kind of attention to help bang the final nail. But grassroots also helps alot. When people have to vote on this issue the more people who have spent 5 mins w me are that many more that will vote our way.

 

[sailorman]

Originally Posted by Uncle Willie
Yep, it does make you wonder .. personally, I'm not interested in giving a mini-seminar impromptu whenever the issue comes up .. living in State with a ban on smoking everywhere indoors pretty much other than private homes .. when it looks liike smoke, folks think it's smoke .. that's a natural reaction .. I'd spend half my life explaining and then a large portion of the populace would still not get it and would not care ..

So, I abide by the rule of common courtesy ..

I live in a state that bans indoor smoking and I vape indoors nearly anywhere. I've never gotten hassled or asked to stop. Closest ever was one old lady who I dispatched within seconds and it didn't take a mini-seminar. It helps if you're not vaping something that looks like an analog. When it looks like smoke and you're not holding something that looks like an analog, they don't necessarily think it's smoke. I make a point of keeping my PV visible. When people see it, they might not know what it is, but they don't think it's smoke.

Here in Fl, we could find ourselves in the position of Missthree, where vaping is banned everywhere smoking is. She has a tougher situation, yet she still doesn't hesitate to educate. If we are going to escape the same fate, people need to know that they can't automatically assume something is smoke, just because it looks like smoke. That's the point. As long as we hide, you're right. People won't get it and they won't care.

Recently, people in Missouri managed to overturn a well funded campaign by "One Air", an out of state group, to include e-cigs in a smoking ban. They showed up at meetings and basically forced the politicians to remove e-cigs from the definition of smoking. Many of those people were non-smokers. If we can't get that support in Florida, One Air will come to visit us soon and nobody will show up when our meetings are held.

There is no dignity or courtesy in avoiding an innocent behavior because of how it looks to someone who is uninformed and ignorant. Some years ago, I had a girlfriend who was constantly mistaken for my daughter. Did we get some sideways glances? Yeah, lots of them. But did I worry about people thinking we were in an incestuous relationship and hide out of "common courtesy"? Hell no. And I didn't feel any need to explain to anyone either (Well..., maybe the occasional hotel desk clerk).

 

[Uncle Willie]

I live in a state that bans indoor smoking and I vape indoors nearly anywhere. I've never gotten hassled or asked to stop.

This has not been my experience .. and at my age, I prefer to not have my blood pressure raised by confrontation .. my Cardiologist feels the same way ...

As long as we hide, you're right. People won't get it and they won't care.

There is no dignity or courtesy in avoiding an innocent behavior because of how it looks to someone who is uninformed and ignorant.

Your opinion .. many of us feel differently .. myself, I believe the Industry as a whole needs to mount a campaign to educate the public .. with literally hundreds of vendors and more springing up daily, certainly it's in their best interest .. I don't believe a seismic shift in perception will happen by each of us individually "fighting the good fight" as you suggest .. I'm not interested in whipping out my PV and happily blowing vapor anywhere and everywhere .. and yes, I'll agree that one reason is years of anti-smoking activity and the stigma associated with being an analog smoker .. absolutely .. however, that's not the only reason ..

So, we'll agree to disagree over PV Use in Public .. no need to reply as I'm as bull headed as you are and you won't sway my opinion, so save yourself some typing time ..

 

[kingcobra]

I saw that. In each case, there was no objection and there was no rational reason to prohibit vaping. Note that none of them were smoking areas.

Vape where it's not prohibited by law or by someone in a responsible position to prohibit it. Don't assume that it's prohibited until you receive explicit permission. If you think it may cause a confrontation with anti-nicotine militants, try to get permission first.

Again, smoking bans began with a foundation in reality. If everyone vaped instead of smoked in 1949, there would be no vaping bans today. People were not offended by the fact people smoked everywhere, they were offended by the smoke itself.

Why in hell would we need permission here? If you ask then you are telling people there might be something wrong with this. You don't ask permission to breathe and don't need to. From reading this, I can see that a lot of vapors are confusing respect with lack of resolve. I'm respectful myself but since vaping is harmless to them there's no need to even consider not doing it. If someone asked me to stop, and that hasn't happened yet in a year of vaping wherever I want, I would comply but not without an explanation of why their concerns aren't based upon reality.

So it's great to see Sailorman and others who are willing to at least not treat this as if we are doing something wrong. It's one thing to have our rights trampled on but if you're willing to trample on your own without even any provocation then that's pretty sad. People can do whatever they want, do all their vaping in the can, but some of us have the courage to stand up for what is right and some do not.

 

[kwalka]

This has not been my experience .. and at my age, I prefer to not have my blood pressure raised by confrontation .. my Cardiologist feels the same way ...

I bet your cardiologist was quite pleased w your BP when you made the switch...

Your opinion .. many of us feel differently .. myself, I believe the Industry as a whole needs to mount a campaign to educate the public .. with literally hundreds of vendors and more springing up daily, certainly it's in their best interest .. I don't believe a seismic shift in perception will happen by each of us individually "fighting the good fight" as you suggest .. I'm not interested in whipping out my PV and happily blowing vapor anywhere and everywhere .. and yes, I'll agree that one reason is years of anti-smoking activity and the stigma associated with being an analog smoker .. absolutely .. however, that's not the only reason ..

I said it b4 and Ill say it again what about maybe saving 1 persons life? If you read the rest of the post you will see that some of us give a bit of info to the people in our direct vicinity before showing/vaping what we have. You give me the impression that you think were dancing thru the streets shouting look at me look at what Im doing...

If we could agree here in this relatively small venu...maybe it would help the industry as a whole mount this campaign that you feel is the only way.

I know you were not posting at me... and I wasnt going to reply until I got to the bottom of your post and you said "shut up, I'm taking my ball and going home". Not trying to put words in your mouth...IMO that what it equates to.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Let's get one thing clear .. my comments relate to my experience and my experience only .. and I have never felt PV use was "wrong" or whatever term anyone would like to use .. you see, where I live, local law enforcement agencies are required to enforce the anti-smoking law .. and until you've actually had someone call the law on you, which I have had happen, you miss the context of my comments .. while PV use is not illegal by any means, the perception of blowing smoke can and does trigger a response in a portion of the population .. I decided after my incident that it was simply not worth the hassle involved .. thus, I abide by the analog smoking rules .. so now that you have the context of my experience ..

Now, if I were a young man, perhaps I'd start my own PV movement .. but I'm not ..

I respect those that use a PV where ever and when ever .. I don't believe it's my job to educate the public for various reasons .. and I'd expect those on ECF to especially respect my personal choices ..