It is IMPORTANT to Vape in PUBLIC

[kwalka]

"PG is the primary suspension agent in asthma inhalers"
Unfortunately, I do not have enough knowledge on forum usage and linking, to link to where I read this yesterday. But it was in a pro-vaping article(for what its worth), by a guy w a phd.
I will sit in a waiting room full of people and b4 I pull out my eGo w a tank on it I will exclaim "does anybody here smoke, or know anybody who wants/needs to quit?" I will give them a brief, polite rundown on what I have and whats its done for me. I have done this everywhere from hospitals w smoking bans that include e cigs to, the pharmacy, while waiting for a refill. I asked the pharmacist about PG, explained the above, and she was very excited to get the word out. She's known me for 2 yrs(unfortunately).
Education is the key here. We must seperate ourselves from the smokers. Its great to read thru this thread and similar ones and see that with this kind dialogue, we are on the right track.
Get the word out, and vape on!

 

[sailorman]

Uhm, no, just no.

Look, i live in Germany. We recently got a ban on smoking in public areas like bars, restaurants, but not in the open air. Smoking had been already prohibited in public buildings like youth clubs, churches and the likes even before that.
Bars, clubs and restaurants can(!) allow smoking, IF they have a separate smoker's compartment that is away from the nonsmokers' area and as long as the nonsmokers' area stays separate from the smokers' compartment.

A store(!), on the other hand, is not "open public", neither is a bar, pub, restaurant. At least not legallese-wise if it comes to trouble. If you misbehave in a store, bar, pub, what-other-locale-of-your-choice-you-ever-choose in any way the owner deems inapropriate, the OWNER and/or his/her seconds can either kick you out themselves, or they could call the German police to have(!) you kicked out of the locale.

But going back to the matter of vaping. I vape in public, on public places, on the street, in a park, whereever i like.
BUT:
It's a matter of respect towards the place's owner to ask for permission in an enclosed location beforehand, not a matter of "I have to explain my vaping". That's nonsense on your behalf.
Why i do ask for permission, though? Because even if i can reason with most people here in Germany, vaping without permission in a place where it'd be frowned upon or outright illegal to smoke seems to people uneducated about vaping like a perceived violation of smoker's ban. They see a cloud of white stuff and perceive it to be smoke.
Vaping is NEW to the folks here in Germany, hence why most think that i'm still SMOKING, but actually i'm vaping. Add that to the fact of trying to fight more and more rampant lobbyist bull.... anti-vaping propaganda blown from German mass media to disinform the masses and you might understand why RAMBOing our vaping into other people's faces is not the best idea, even if we Germans are rather (negatively) known for our bluntness and direct actions.

Am i clear now?

Duh!! I don't believe I was talking about Germany or German law. I also never advocated breaking any law or refusing to comply with a request to not vape by the owner of any public place. So, what's your problem? Does any random stranger in Germany have the right to demand you stop vaping where it's otherwise legal? No? Then don't. Explain if they are receptive and, if they are not, ignore them.

As you continue to act as if you're smoking, don't be surprised when people continue to mistake your vaping for smoking. Then, they will support a move to add vaping to a smoking ban and you can act just like a smoker, just the way you are anyway. You won't notice any difference and you'll be happy.

Meanwhile, here in the U.S., we are trying to make vaping a common and ordinary sight OUT OF smoking area. We want people to not associate vaping with smoking. We don't do it by acting like we are smoking or hanging out in smoking areas. We don't blow vapor in someone's face. We don't defy legitimate requests to stop vaping. We don't violate the vaping bans that are in effect. We work to stop the spread of vaping bans. Our vaping bans are put in place on a local basis, not by a federal law. So, it is easier to influence a city or state than an entire national government.

How about you handle it in Germany your way according to what your citizens think, and we'll handle it the way it works best in the U.S.. Let's see who is first country to officially equate smoking and vaping throughout the whole country. At least the U.S. hasn't banned Snus. A country that bans Snus is not a good prospect for liberalizing laws about e-cigs.

BTW, I'll use the term anti-tobacco Nazi when I please. The propaganda tactics and moralistic overtones of their crusade was lifted straight from the Nazi playbook.

See this: Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger to understand why I don't use the term lightly.

 

[sailorman]

"PG is the primary suspension agent in asthma inhalers"
Unfortunately, I do not have enough knowledge on forum usage and linking, to link to where I read this yesterday. But it was in a pro-vaping article(for what its worth), by a guy w a phd.
I will sit in a waiting room full of people and b4 I pull out my eGo w a tank on it I will exclaim "does anybody here smoke, or know anybody who wants/needs to quit?" I will give them a brief, polite rundown on what I have and whats its done for me. I have done this everywhere from hospitals w smoking bans that include e cigs to, the pharmacy, while waiting for a refill. I asked the pharmacist about PG, explained the above, and she was very excited to get the word out. She's known me for 2 yrs(unfortunately).
Education is the key here. We must seperate ourselves from the smokers. Its great to read thru this thread and similar ones and see that with this kind dialogue, we are on the right track.
Get the word out, and vape on!

PG has been used for years in inhalers as well as intravenous medications. It is used in hospital ventilation systems for it's germicidal properties. The popular air freshner and cleaner, Ozium is made with a base of PG. Experiments were done with rats who were raised in a PG rich atmosphere and were healthier than a control group. In 1943 in Belfast, an entire orphanage full of children were exposed to a PG enriched environment with no ill effects when follow up studies were done. PG is one of the most common additives in food and cosmetics. It is GRAS by the FDA and has a long history of many uses with on ill effects. VG has a similar history and is as ubiquitous. It's use in inhalers is shorter, having been used since about 2001.

 

[zoiDman]

How come I just knew that you would make a Reply like this.

...

And I'll use the term anti-tobacco Nazi when I please. The propaganda tactics and moralistic overtones of their crusade was lifted straight from the Nazi playbook.

...

Even when your choice of Words could be Extremely Offensive to some People here on the ECF.

 

[Joe Normal]

How about you handle it in Germany your way according to what your citizens think, and we'll handle it the way it works best in the U.S.. Let's see who is first country to officially equate smoking and vaping throughout the whole country. At least the U.S. hasn't banned Snus. A country that bans Snus is not a good prospect for liberalizing laws about e-cigs.

The WHOLE EU banned Snus, except for Sweden. So what's your point?
Snus is a horrible product no one needs and which sold badly in Germany anyway, so what?

 

[MickeyRat]

Look, i live in Germany.

Hi Joe, I have to say that I work for a large corporation and I've been involved in several projects with my colleagues in Germany. In my experience they are very open and have been quite interested in my vaping.

BTW I don't mind blunt a bit.

Another amusing incident occurred on a plane where I was stealth vaping now and then. Eventually my seatmate turned to me and asked in a German accent, "Do those things work?" He laughed out loud when I grinned and said, "They work, if you get the right one but, don't tell anyone I'm using it on here. It's against the rules."

 

[sailorman]

The WHOLE EU banned Snus, except for Sweden. So what's your point?
Snus is a horrible product no one needs and which sold badly in Germany anyway, so what?

The point was not to pick on Germany. The point is that a country, or group of countries, that would ban what is probably the safest form of smokeless tobacco, with the possible exception of e-cigs, would have no problem banning e-cigs. So, perhaps you should concentrate your efforts where they matter, in Germany, and don't tell us how best to introduce e-cigs to uninitiated Americans.

It "sold badly in German" LOL!! As if that has anything to do with anything.

A "horrible product no one need" LOL!! That's your opinion. I'm sure there are plenty of people saying that about e-cigs as well.

Until I started e-cigs, Snus helped me to smoke the fewest cigarettes I had smoked in 20 years. There are plenty of people right here on ECG who had a difficult time quitting, even with e-cigs, without Snus as a source of WTA. In places where vaping bans are in effect, Snus is a very useful product as well.

 

[sailorman]

How come I just knew that you would make a Reply like this.



Even when your choice of Words could be Extremely Offensive to some People here on the ECF.

Did you read the link I posted? No.
Because, if you had, you would see that the parallels refer to a specific and documented aspect of Nazism and I am not using the word gratuitously. If the mere use of the word, regardless of context or applicability, is offensive to someone, they have other issues far more serious than can be addressed here.

I hope you're not one of the people, so seemingly prevalent here on ECF, who complain about "political correctness". The hypocrisy would be unbearable.

 

[Maestro]

Sailorman, did you ever notice how wet water is?

 

[Joe Normal]

Sailorman, you just godwin'ed your own thread, do you even realize that?

 

[MissThree33]

So, companies are extremely protective of their image, brand, and identity. While we all know that vaping is OK, that it's very beneficial, that doesn't mean that companies view people sitting around in their establishments with tendrils of vapor wafting over their heads or flowing from their mouthes as a good image. Honestly, if I owned a store or restaurant that banned smoking, I'd likely be inclined to uphold that ban against vaping inside my establishment as well. My opinion will likely be an unpopular one, but I understand why businesses have a resistance and why it likely will never go away.

That being said, outdoors, or in places like lounges and bars (in which there are often more people standing outside smoking than there are IN the establishment) I'd say, if I was the owner of said establishment, I'd allow it. Those are traditional adult smoking places. Outdoors, there should be no question.

I'm not even going to say "oh but the children! We can't let children see!" Kids will eventually know anyway, or their parents will eventually have to explain addiction to them. I've never been one for sheltering my own children and I'm not really interested in sheltering someone elses. haha.

I'll actually stand behind any business that doesn't want to allow vaping in their establishments. I get why. It's an image thing, NOT a health thing. I know a lot of people won't agree with me though. I'm ok with that.

 

[wv2win]

Isn’t this a Double Edged Sword?

Sure you may get some “Converts”, but what if the number of Converts are outweighed by the number of people who Don’t want to have people Vaping in Non-Smoking Areas?

Does this just aid Momentum to the Vaping Bans?

I say Vape all you want in Areas where Smoking is Allowed. But don't Vape where Smoking Isn't.

And by doing this, you are one, telling the uninformed by your actions that vaping is dangerous and should be banned where possible and kept away from everyone; and two, you are condeming vapers to only vape with smokers and continue to inhale what we worked so hard to get away from.

This is not the answer but definitely plays right into the hands of those who want to ban vaping everywhere.

 

[zoiDman]

And by doing this, you are one, telling the uninformed by your actions that vaping is dangerous and should be banned where possible and kept away from everyone; and two, you are condeming vapers to only vape with smokers and continue to inhale what we worked so hard to get away from.

...

Yeah, it’s Really the Root of All Evil.

I guess you can Perceive a Person’s Actions in Many Different Ways.

 

[sailorman]

Sailorman, you just godwin'ed your own thread, do you even realize that?

Obviously, you didn't bother to read the link.

I don't recognize Godwin's law as being applicable when the reference is not inappropriate, frivolous, illegitimate or gratuitous. My use of the word was none of those. To apply Godwin's under such a circumstance is merely intellectual bullying and a form of attempted prior restraint.

Since you obviously didn't read any of the link I posted, you are criticizing with no legitimate basis in fact, so I feel free to disregard your criticism. If you bother to read the link and then have a disagreement on whether the word applies, we can have that discussion. But please forgive me if I don't feel obliged to comply with any blanket prohibition you care to impose on what words I choose to use.

I'm not in Germany. I have no reason to be hyper-sensitive to the word. I am not accustomed to the atmosphere of censorship that exists there in regards to what you so delicately refer to as the "......". The "......" has an entirely different connotation and a specific meaning here. We have our own form of linguistic propriety. I don't need to have yours imposed on me as well.

 

[wv2win]

BTW - How Many is a "Few Only" when it comes to Carcinogens?

Now you REALLY are sounding just like the zealots from ASCH. When you resort to this type of meaningless BS comment is when you need to really think what your objective is: just to argue is what this looks like.

 

[wv2win]

Hey sailorman, you having a Bad Night ? You seem Kinda Bent.

I mean, it's ok to Disagree on Something isn't it? The world doesn't have One Point of View, Right?

In this case there are two points of view: the right one based on logic espoused by sailorman and the wrong one pushed by you which wants us all to send the message to the world that vaping and smoking is the exact same thing.

 

[sailorman]

Yeah, it’s Really the Root of All Evil.

I guess you can Perceive a Person’s Actions in Many Different Ways.

Perception is important. If it weren't, there would be no such thing as a "perception management" and corporations and governments wouldn't spend millions on practicing it.

Perception is not an unpredictable phenomenon unique to each individual. It can be predicted and manipulated and controlled to a great degree on any large population of people. There are entire billion dollar industries that specialize in perception management. If it didn't work, there wouldn't be so much money spent on it.

Anti-tobacco zealots, and their organizations, practice it all the time. By vaping in smoking areas, you reinforce the perception that the ANTZ attempt to plant among the public, that there is no difference between smoking and vaping. You help reinforce the stereotype that the ANTZs create and exploit about all tobacco users.

 

[zoiDman]

Now you REALLY are sounding just like the zealots from ASCH. When you resort to this type of meaningless BS comment is when you need to really think what your objective is: just to argue is what this looks like.

I think if you thought about it, the term "Zealot" can apply to Either side of a Position.

 

[wv2win]

Yeah, it’s Really the Root of All Evil.

I guess you can Perceive a Person’s Actions in Many Different Ways.

Unfortunately that is the way "perceptions" work. When you act like an activity is a danger to others, that is what they will perceive and believe.

 

[sailorman]

In this case there are two points of view: the right one based on logic espoused by sailorman and the wrong one pushed by you which wants us all to send the message to the world that vaping and smoking is the exact same thing.

This is a result of the relatively recent cultural phenomenon that holds that all opinions and points of view are equally valid and equally legitimate. It's a form of political correctness that, ironically, was largely spawned by right wing media, notably Fox News, who is commonly forced into the unenviable position of having to defend the indefensible by pretending that all points of view are equally valid and carry equal intellectual weight.