It's time to fight fire with fire

[ScottP]

I am getting really tired of ANTZ sensationalistic headlines, taglines, and motto's used to spread disinformation. Meanwhile we are getting nowhere with calm truths. Maybe we should create some incendiary taglines and motto's and paint the net with them.

Something like:
"People that hate vaping, just want smokers to die of cancer."
"Banning eCigarettes is a vote FOR cancer"
Anyone that speaks out against vaping should be publicly called "a smoker hater that just wants smokers to die".

I say we give them a taste of their own medicine and see how they like it. Besides, the sheeple eat that stuff up.

What are some other good incendiary taglines?

 

[Topacka]

Gov. losing revenues on cigarette tax, hit them where it hurts, buy an e-cigarette today!

 

[edyle]

I am getting really tired of ANTZ sensationalistic headlines, taglines, and motto's used to spread disinformation. Meanwhile we are getting nowhere with calm truths. Maybe we should create some incendiary taglines and motto's and paint the net with them.

Something like:
"People that hate vaping, just want smokers to die of cancer."
"Banning eCigarettes is a vote FOR cancer"
Anyone that speaks out against vaping should be publicly called "a smoker hater that just wants smokers to die".

I say we give them a taste of their own medicine and see how they like it. Besides, the sheeple eat that stuff up.

What are some other good incendiary taglines?

E-cigarettes.

 

[TheReign]

Anything man. If you think about it there so ignorant to the fact that vaping is healthier than smoking they cant believe it even if the facts were laid out in front of them. I'm proof of that health factor and so is my stepbrother. My dad smokes and while he's coughing up a lung everyday/night we're over here vaping away never hacking up black mucus or complaining about being sick.

Things like this are going to be hard to change because some are just so convinced that any kind of smoke/vape is bad for you, honestly I feel like Tobacco already ruined it for everyone no matter what we do. Doesn't mean we cant try to make a difference and it wont stop me from trying, It's just hard as it is because Tobacco has cast a dark spell on people to believe that any type of smoke/vape is going to be bad for you. OF course it is! Your only supposed to breathe air into your lungs, Vaping however is the safer way of getting the nicotine we need/want whatever you want to say it is.

Some people will never change their mind about it and it sucks, were trying to change something that is killing so many people already. What is even more sad is when people who smoke try and say that vaping is worse/as bad as smoking a Cigarette. All we can do is what the OP is suggesting and try and get the word out. I'm all for trying to Support what were doing here and am willing to do whatever I can, It's just such a hard battle we really need to get more support in order to make the big difference we want.

 

[Ken_A]

I like the idea.
Got any memes to share?

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

Thought of Sam when I read this, from an old bit of his:

 

[Jman8]

What are some other good incendiary taglines?

"Secondhand Vapor Deemed 47 Times Less Harmful than Tobacco Control Lies"
"Breaking News: 3000 Years of Research Shows Adults Like Flavors Too!"
"Dr. Stanton Glantz on Obamacare: We Just Don't Know What's In It, or How Dangerous It Really Is"
"Big Pharma Admits Bribing the FDA to Lie To Americans About eCigs"
"Tobacco Control Leaders Reveal Children Are Nothing More Than Pawns In Their Quest For Power"

 

[Bramble]

"Secondhand Vapor Deemed 47 Times Less Harmful than Tobacco Control Lies"
"Breaking News: 3000 Years of Research Shows Adults Like Flavors Too!"
"Dr. Stanton Glantz on Obamacare: We Just Don't Know What's In It, or How Dangerous It Really Is"
"Big Pharma Admits Bribing the FDA to Lie To Americans About eCigs"
"Tobacco Control Leaders Reveal Children Are Nothing More Than Pawns In Their Quest For Power"

I laughed so hard I snorted

 

[AndriaD]

I'm not sure about taglines, but I was thinking about something today, about all this disinformation going on, and how we all like to lump Big Tobacco in with Big Pharma and the gov't itself. But I was thinking about that "Master Settlement Agreement," and though it appears to be quite complex (like most matters of law and finance), it does take account of the base number of "units" sold, in each state -- pks of smokes, cartons of smokes, boxes of cigars, etc; if fewer "units" are sold, the tobacco companies don't have to pay the states as much, so Big Tobacco might actually have as much to gain as to lose -- however the states receiving these payments from the tobacco companies have much to lose, so they may be an even bigger stumbling block than Big Tobacco ever thought about being.

On the other hand, supposedly the payments are supposed to defray the costs of the healthcare of those who don't quit smoking, and it's apparently very obvious that the payments don't even come close to defraying that cost, so it's really in the states' interests, too, to decrease the number of smokers. It seems like a very tangled web, but I don't think it's really clear who is perpetrating the most deception. It's looking to me like Big Pharma is the REAL bad guy here -- they're supposedly "good guys," who are practicing the science of medicating whatever ails you, so their pronouncements are met with respect, no matter what stupid things they say. Nobody trusts Big Tobacco about anything anymore, so why would they believe them about this? I think it's Big Pharma who is our biggest and worst enemy.

Just some food for thought, and my ,
Andria

 

[sdennislee]

Doubtful you will change the ANTZ mnds, they form their opinion prior to reading the facts, they refuse to allow facts to change a good story. You may be on to something in terms of changing the minds of the sheeple, they like to have someone else give them their opinions no matter how flawed they maybe.

 

[DC2]

On the other hand, supposedly the payments are supposed to defray the costs of the healthcare of those who don't quit smoking, and it's apparently very obvious that the payments don't even come close to defraying that cost, so it's really in the states' interests, too, to decrease the number of smokers.

From what I keep hearing smokers pay FAR more money in taxes than it costs to treat them.
Supposedly smokers are a huge profit center for the government.

 

[Myk]

I do better than that.
Whenever there's a news story that highlights ALA or ACS fighting against a minor ban because it doesn't go far enough I share it and point out that ALA and ACS who claim they want people to stop smoking and are worried kids will use ecigs as a gateway are perfectly willing to fight against a law that would protect those kids if the law doesn't make ecigs unaffordable to protect their income from pharmaceutical NRT donors and tobacco settlement money.

I have never had someone defend them. Most who comment talk about the corrupt system run by corporations.

I do have a few brainwashed idiots on Twitter who would probably fight against a message like that but I'm not twitter-savvy enough to know how to get my posts to ALA/ACS to show so most of that comes in conversation. And then Twitter is so "short attention span" it's hard to say if it convinced them or not.
I know yesterday's UK smoking in cars bans property rights stuff was falling on brainwashed ears.

 

[Bramble]

From what I keep hearing smokers pay FAR more money in taxes than it costs to treat them.
Supposedly smokers are a huge profit center for the government.

Damn straight they are.

Let's do a little math here: I was paying 1.70 in taxes for each pack of smokes I bought (that's the rate for the last two years anyway). In the last two years I've paid roughly $1,500 in tobacco tax. Know how much I've cost the government by smoking? Zero dollars. I have very fortunately not been sick enough to even see a doctor for more than 5 years. 3 years ago I injured myself (not smoking related) and tore a tendon, it was covered on private insurance. I really just don't get sick (knock wood!!!) I'm glad not to be a cash cow for the government anymore.

 

[ScottP]

You may be on to something in terms of changing the minds of the sheeple, they like to have someone else give them their opinions no matter how flawed they maybe.

That is exactly what I am trying to do. Sheeple buy into "hate speech" such as "Republicans want to kill grandma since they won't support Obamacare" or "Democrats hate people that own guns". So I want to use that to our advantage so things like "People that hate ecigarettes, want smokers to die of cancer" will stick in their minds and they will instinctively distrust anti-vapers and maybe not vote for politicians that run on that as part of their platform.

 

[03FXDWG]

If the tobacco settlement was supposed to help pay for the extra health care smokers need, why do smokers have to pay a surcharge on their health insurance? Why do smokers even buy health insurance if they are already paying an extra tax on their smokes to cover their future health problems? Why don't we charge extra taxes for stuff with added fats & sugars? Diabetics drain way more insurance money than smokers. If the point of the ACA (Obamacare) was to insure everyone, again, why are smokers having to pay extra tax? It's all about the money. There is no way for them to collect the tobacco tax on the liquid especially since most all the the nicotine solution used in the liquid--the tobacco part of the recipe--is made in China. It's all about the money for Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, Big Insurance & Big Brother.

 

[Myk]

Damn straight they are.

Let's do a little math here: I was paying 1.70 in taxes for each pack of smokes I bought (that's the rate for the last two years anyway). In the last two years I've paid roughly $1,500 in tobacco tax. Know how much I've cost the government by smoking? Zero dollars. I have very fortunately not been sick enough to even see a doctor for more than 5 years. 3 years ago I injured myself (not smoking related) and tore a tendon, it was covered on private insurance. I really just don't get sick (knock wood!!!) I'm glad not to be a cash cow for the government anymore.

Figure with your private insurance covering everything up to a very large minimum that $1500 (that's way low, taxes are about $3 pack in this state) would go extremely far in paying premiums on catastrophic insurance to cover above your minimum because odds are you'll die before you ever hit your minimum.
Now take that for every smoker, some who never have smoking illnesses and now ALL are privately insured and before most were privately insured. It's a huge scam.
They turned smokers into second class citizens and can get away with saying anything.

But the problem now is ecigs are causing them to expose themselves. The ANTZ groups with their irrational claims and the government for going along with them. I'm pointing it out every opportunity I can.

 

[Jman8]

"ANTZ Confused By Athletes At Winter Olympics Who Are Exhaling Vapor Smoke From Their Mouths: Seeks Ban On Olympic Games"

 

[Bramble]

That is exactly what I am trying to do. Sheeple buy into "hate speech" such as "Republicans want to kill grandma since they won't support Obamacare" or "Democrats hate people that own guns". So I want to use that to our advantage so things like "People that hate ecigarettes, want smokers to die of cancer" will stick in their minds and they will instinctively distrust anti-vapers and maybe not vote for politicians that run on that as part of their platform.

I think partisan politics serve as a great distraction to keep people from noticing that they are ALL corrupt.

 

[03FXDWG]

That is exactly what I am trying to do. Sheeple buy into "hate speech" such as "Republicans want to kill grandma since they won't support Obamacare" or "Democrats hate people that own guns". So I want to use that to our advantage so things like "People that hate ecigarettes, want smokers to die of cancer" will stick in their minds and they will instinctively distrust anti-vapers and maybe not vote for politicians that run on that as part of their platform.

I don't think vaping will ever be a plank in any party's platform. The plank is downsizing government &/or self regulation. No more nanny state! That goes for all levels of government. Some states are even more controlling than the Feds and are proud of it.

 

[ScottP]

I think partisan politics serve as a great distraction to keep people from noticing that they are ALL corrupt.

I actually like partisan politics. In my opinion the polarizing opinions of BOTH parties are all horrible ideas. It is the few things that both sides agree on that is even worth consideration for law. So I wish both houses were divided exactly 50/50 along party lines and a new law required 2/3 majority vote to pass in each house. That would filter out most of the pure garbage they try to cram down our throats.

Every time a single party holds majority in both houses and the Presidency, I cringe at the crap that starts coming out of Washington.