It's time to fight fire with fire

[jpargana]

From what I keep hearing smokers pay FAR more money in taxes than it costs to treat them.
Supposedly smokers are a huge profit center for the government.

Not just "supposedly"... I remember some article about the United Kingdom: How an 'ANTI' group was pressing Govt because in a decade, treatment costs had risen from 1.7 to 2.1 (Thousands of millions? Can't remember anymore). Anyway, it's only a 23% increase - in a decade.

Who wrote that article was actually not-biased: after describing all the arguments presented by that group, he just stated something like "It's fair to note that in the same year treatment costs hit a new record, 'sin-tax' revenue also hit a new record: around 9.0" (Thousands of millions?)... it does not really matter the 'money unit' for this discussion (Millions, thousands of millions...): British Govt was taxing British smokers more than four times than it was spending on treatment expenses...!

See the written question below, by Italian MEP Giancarlo Scotta:
Written question - Tax revenue from electronic cigarettes - E-004672/2013

(This was even before the attempted medicalization of the e-cig on the last 08th October)


On a side note, I believe it was actually thousands of millions above: so, a net profit of almost 7 thousand million British Pounds (Not Euros!).
My reasoning is simply this: Portugal is much smaller. We have around 10 million people, so maybe 2 million smokers. (Considering the 'typical' 20% smoking prevalence.
Five years ago, I remenber reading some article that for each pack costing 3.5 Eur, Govt would take 2.80 Eur in taxes alone.
If each Portuguese smoker goes thru a PAD (And I know many people who smoke much more than that), that would be 5.6 million Euros on a single day. Over a year, that number rises to 2.044 thousand million Euros !! (OMG!! I had NEVER actually made these figures before!).
So, if a small country like Portugal, where tobacco is not really that expensive (by comparison), can get more than 2 thousand million Euros each year, I believe it is plausible for a country like the United Kingdom to get 9 thousand million GBP... and pocket almost 7 thousand millions in the process...! Considering this alone, I really must ask myself: "How can there NOT be a war on electronics cigarettes ??"

 

[DaveP]

It's my opinion that the anti-smoking crowd views electronic cigarettes as a barrier they need to push through to get anything that resembles smoke out of the way. They have successfully pushed smokers to outlying smoking areas and now we vape in stores and restaurants and pretty much anywhere we want. They don't like it and don't care if it's safer. They want it gone.

Government doesn't want to jeopardize the tobacco revenue they receive. We all know that this revenue was supposed to be used to finance anti-smoking campaigns to discourage teen smoking. It's generally used to supplement departmental budgets and very little is used for its intended purpose.

We can look for taxes on ecigs as smokers turn to the alternative. Nicotine is a dangerous chemical in their eyes. We all know that it's not necessarily the danger component in tobacco, but it's one that helps make smoking an addiction. They don't talk about how tobacco companies engineered the mix with chemicals to enhance the effects of nicotine with additives that essentially free base the nicotine and make it more potent. I wonder why we don't see legislation designed to make cigarettes more natural in nature and stop the addition of ammonia and other chemicals.

It's also sad that the FDA played up the fact that one sample they tested contained diethylene glycol and produced trace amounts of carcinogens. They failed to mention that the carcinogens were trace levels equal to that of Nicorette gum. The truth is that the samples they tested contained trace amounts of diethylene glycol from a contaminated batch. That's a little scary, but it's believed that it was a fluke. Propylene glycol IS in antifreeze and it's there because diethylene glycol IS poison and animals were dying as they licked it up from the ground where it spilled over. It tastes sweet. PG is GRAS (generally recognized as safe) and it's in cosmetics, toothpaste, soft drinks, and many other foods and products we consume. PG is a thickener used to make the juice stick to the ice in snowball juice that little kids love. It's safe.

It's a loaded gun we face and the media hype just makes it worse. Educating the public one person at a time is the only way we can legitimize vaping. ECF is a good place to learn the facts. Inject what you learn into the conversation and educate the public as to why vaping should be legal and cigarettes should be taxed out of existence.

 

[Bunnykiller]

I'm Vaping .... so Kiss my other ....

 

[skoony]

its hard to make headway when news like this is buried so deep i didn't know about it.
i am 58 years old.i am not a genius but i am very well read and informed enough
to be aware of all the issues past and present.
in 1990 surgeon general koop stated 80-90 % of tobacco related cancer was
actually caused by the radiation in the tobacco not the other contaminants.
apparently caused by the fertilizer used.
cancer rates are rising across the board so is the use of this fertilizer.
hmmm.
how can they keep this buried.
must read:Radioactive tobacco | Department of Nuclear Engineering

do you see what we are up against now?
still a very good idea.

neener,neener i dont smoke any more to the antz regards,
mike

 

[EddardinWinter]

440,000 deaths a year from smoking.

How much blood do the ANTZ want on their hands?

 

[Jman8]

"Tobacco Control Advocates Say Jihadist Movement Doesn't Go Far Enough In War Against American Freedom"

 

[Myk]

"ANTZ Confused By Athletes At Winter Olympics Who Are Exhaling Vapor Smoke From Their Mouths: Seeks Ban On Olympic Games"

I'm going to see if I can work that into a tweet.

 

[BigCatDaddy]

How about these for t-shirts: " Smoking will kill you, Vaping will save you!!" or "Big Tobacco wants me to die, Vaping wants me to live!!" maybe "The Vaporizer in my hand is about as dangerous as that cup of Starbucks in yours."

 

[RosaJ]

From what I understand, the money paid by the cigarette taxes are given to the States and some of them put them in the "general fund" not to help smokers' health care expenses. It's up to their discretion on how to spend the money.

 

[Uma]

TFK freaks over breath vapor & bans Winter Olympics, for the sake of the children.

 

[Myk]

Their long twitter addresses had me worried but it fit.

.@LungAssociation @AmericanCancer Looking to ban Winter #Olympics because athlete's breath looks like #ecig vapor which looks like smoke.

 

[Maestro]

I've been hearing about the "cost of healthcare due to smoking" forever, and it drives me nuts. On average, smoking does NOT increase health care costs. You are not going to live forever if you quit smoking. You will only change what kills you and when. From a purely monetary point of view, it's living longer that's more expensive, not dying younger. Has any money really been saved if you give up smoking and then spend the last 20 years of your life being treated for heart disease, dementia and the numerous other disorders that plague the elderly?? Tack on pensions, nursing homes, etc, and it's ridiculous to say that it's cheaper to keep people alive longer. Of course we'd like everyone to live as long as possible, and it's tragic when someone dies prematurely from smoking. But the "smokescsreen" about the high cost of medical care for smokers is just another tactic that most people buy into because they don't give it any thought.

 

[Myk]

I've been hearing about the "cost of healthcare due to smoking" forever, and it drives me nuts. On average, smoking does NOT increase health care costs. You are not going to live forever if you quit smoking. You will only change what kills you and when. From a purely monetary point of view, it's living longer that's more expensive, not dying younger. Has any money really been saved if you give up smoking and then spend the last 20 years of your life being treated for heart disease, dementia and the numerous other disorders that plague the elderly?? Tack on pensions, nursing homes, etc, and it's ridiculous to say that it's cheaper to keep people alive longer. Of course we'd like everyone to live as long as possible, and it's tragic when someone dies prematurely from smoking. But the "smokescsreen" about the high cost of medical care for smokers is just another tactic that most people buy into because they don't give it any thought.

Yep, my IBD costs are outrageous (so outrageous I actually feel sorry for an insurance company for the first time ever). Insurance can only hope I die at 60-70 instead of my planned 102.

 

[Uma]

its hard to make headway when news like this is buried so deep i didn't know about it.
i am 58 years old.i am not a genius but i am very well read and informed enough
to be aware of all the issues past and present.
in 1990 surgeon general koop stated 80-90 % of tobacco related cancer was
actually caused by the radiation in the tobacco not the other contaminants.
apparently caused by the fertilizer used.
cancer rates are rising across the board so is the use of this fertilizer.
hmmm.
how can they keep this buried.
must read:Radioactive tobacco | Department of Nuclear Engineering

mike

Wow, just wow. Our food, our smokes, the rainwater runoff, our aquifers, ... Between that, gmo & vaccinations, it's no wonder WHO is able to predict the rises in cancer even though smoking has fallen. Their last report said there will be an 80% increase if I remember right. Yet, they keep it hidden & insist we have radiation mammograms, etc ... Shame on them!

Their long twitter addresses had me worried but it fit.

.@LungAssociation @AmericanCancer Looking to ban Winter #Olympics because athlete's breath looks like #ecig vapor which looks like smoke.

Love it!! Perfect!!

 

[Grimwald]

We need advocates...doctors, politicians, media. The last time I saw a TV report on e-cigs, the anti side featured a learned professor (Glantz) and a researcher in a white lab coat. The advocate was a dude from the local vape shop. If you were uninformed, who would you believe? If there are good advocates, why don't we ever see them on a local news report. Because the media is lazy.

 

[Uma]

I've been hearing about the "cost of healthcare due to smoking" forever, and it drives me nuts. On average, smoking does NOT increase health care costs. You are not going to live forever if you quit smoking. You will only change what kills you and when. From a purely monetary point of view, it's living longer that's more expensive, not dying younger. Has any money really been saved if you give up smoking and then spend the last 20 years of your life being treated for heart disease, dementia and the numerous other disorders that plague the elderly?? Tack on pensions, nursing homes, etc, and it's ridiculous to say that it's cheaper to keep people alive longer. Of course we'd like everyone to live as long as possible, and it's tragic when someone dies prematurely from smoking. But the "smokescsreen" about the high cost of medical care for smokers is just another tactic that most people buy into because they don't give it any thought.

I know right.
Not to mention, big Pharma is the price trend setter. The same treatments here cost 1/4 in other countries. That, is not, the fault of the smoker who shelled out $400 in sea. Month, plus their smoke tax money each month for all those years.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

I am getting really tired of ANTZ sensationalistic headlines, taglines, and motto's used to spread disinformation.<snip>

I wade in that cesspool every day haha ... I hear ya.

For some reason this cartoon came to mind:

 

[Bramble]

I actually like partisan politics. In my opinion the polarizing opinions of BOTH parties are all horrible ideas. It is the few things that both sides agree on that is even worth consideration for law. So I wish both houses were divided exactly 50/50 along party lines and a new law required 2/3 majority vote to pass in each house. That would filter out most of the pure garbage they try to cram down our throats.

Every time a single party holds majority in both houses and the Presidency, I cringe at the crap that starts coming out of Washington.

Yes but it keeps the country divided, at odds, and focused on meaningless things. This is why I refuse to get into arguments about which part is better than the other - but you see those discussions frequently among people who don't understand how (IMO) they are being used.

When the american people decide something, they decide it and clean house. Keeping us divided is the best way to ensure we don't do that.

 

[Myk]

Love it!! Perfect!!

Uh-oh, it's getting retweets. I'm going to get banned like TobacccoTacticss for making fun of the wrong people.

 

[Jman8]

I recently had a good time with google searching when I realized the people who have lived the longest on this planet (in last 150 years) were lifetime smokers. Being a smoker for like 96 years. Oldest verified woman smoked 2 a day for around a century. Which makes me even more happy to be a moderate smoker. I think we all get that abuse / heavy smoking takes a toll on the body, but hard to understand the problem with a couple a day, or a few a week. Anyway, not all people living to be 100 are smokers, but the fact that some of them are shows, fairly clearly, that smoking doesn't inevitably lead to a premature death.