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Jobs medical insurance says ecigs a tobacco product

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by patxxoo, Nov 5, 2011.

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  1. patxxoo

    patxxoo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2011
    Ocala, FL
    I'm a little not happy at the moment to say the least. So here goes .....

    Every year my medical insurance premiums have gone up through my workplace of 9 years. So of course I figured this year would be no different. Our enrollment is Oct 15- Nov 4.

    They send a booklet which I got around the middle of October (mind you this was after the enrollment started but this i'm also used to) and in this booklet it says that tobacco users insurance rate would increase.

    Unless you have stopped using tobacco products before Oct. 15, 2011

    Oooookay hummmm I didn't even receive the booklet until after the 15th of Oct. (my reaction to this was WTH!!)

    So i'm thinking whew good thing I don't use analogs anymore.

    Well now it get interesting. (high sarcasm here)

    A person (not myself) who uses an ecig asked a question on thier site about his ecig use and why this insurance would affect him due him not using analogs anymore and this was the respons he got:

    Yes. E-cigarettes are considered a tobacco product.
    Below is an FAQ from the ******** Benefit Handbook that should answer the second part of your question.
    Why are e-cigarettes considered a tobacco product?
    The only difference between e-cigarettes and conventional cigarettes is that e-cigarettes don't contain actual tobacco leaf. Smokers "smoke" e-cigarettes in the same fashion as they do regular cigarettes. E-cigarettes deliver nicotine directly into the user's lungs causing the same effect as when someone smokes conventional cigarettes.
    Thanks for asking the question.

    So I go into the website to do my insurance information and a popup box appears stating to the effect the if you lie about tobacco use you could A: lose your insurance and B: Lose your job.

    So even though I don't do analogs it is still being treated as such with the new "tobacco users" medical insurance rates which happen to be well (for me at least) truly sky high and simply unaffordable for myself and my husband even as a 9 year worker.

    So needless to say, this year out of my nine years working for this company I no longer have medical insurance.

    So that is my rant for the day ......
  2. nanovapr

    nanovapr Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 15, 2011
    Catatonic State, USA
    Wow, sorry to hear that. This is the cost of ignorance! It's especially sad when it is generally agreed that we are doing things to greatly better our health (compared to smoking), yet still get treated like the much higher risk group of smokers.
  3. Jackiej5407

    Jackiej5407 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 27, 2011
    Houston, TX
    Oh my ... to say that is "upsetting" is a gross understatement! Who IS this medical insurance company? Even though it helps you not a bit, I am so very sorry for this totally ignorant, idiotic attitude of the insurance folks. Oh geez ....
  4. Iffy

    Iffy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Feb 3, 2011
    Florida Suncoast
    Has anyone asked about tobacco secession gum, patches and pills?
  5. Uma

    Uma Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2010
    Any excuse to make a buck while they can.
    They obviously know that:
    1. Nicotine reduces stress.
    1b. Stress produces every imaginable scenario from heart attacks to obesity.
    2. Nicotine reduces the chances of getting Alzheimers disease
    2b. Longer life produces longer payments from those who can be conived out of their money by false propaganda and laws.

    I'm too upset for you and shouldn't be posting. But, these ins companies are raking in the money while the raking's good. In a few years, they'll have to reduce the premium... because time WILL tell.
  6. justinjj1280

    justinjj1280 Full Member

    Oct 8, 2011
    "The only difference between e-cigarettes and conventional cigarettes is that e-cigarettes don't contain actual tobacco leaf. Smokers "smoke" e-cigarettes in the same fashion as they do regular cigarettes. E-cigarettes deliver nicotine directly into the user's lungs causing the same effect as when someone smokes conventional cigarettes."

    This is such an absurd statement. There are plenty of differences between ecigs and conventional cigarettes. In fact, there is only one similarity and that is nicotine. Sorry you have to go through that.

    So, are special rates for tobacco users becoming more of an industry standard? Even though I have to fill out the health questionnaire every year, the cost for the company is a grand total that gets split equally among the employees, regardless of their individual risk factors. Not looking forward to the next insurance renewal, that's for sure.
  7. Uncle Willie

    Uncle Willie Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nicotine is harmful .. no matter how it's inhaled .. whenever these type threads pop up, which is fairly frequently .. we all rush to defend .. it's an indefensable position .. while I feel the OP's pain, an insurance company sets rates based on predictions .. and a nicotine user is a greater risk than a non-user .. if you did not use the nic, and the company decided to raise rates across the board based on the percentage of nic users, I feel certain the non-users would be quite vocal on that ..
  8. patxxoo

    patxxoo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2011
    Ocala, FL

    For some reason I never expected such underhanded measures from my company
    even if I had still used analogs... To give actual tobacco users no notice of these increases to even try to quit beforehand is underhanded. I'll tell you I just about had a stroke (seriously) when I saw the price increases they were that outragous.

    I'll have to double check to make sure it's the same as last year... I pretty much flipped out after seeing those prices and honestly didn't check to see if it's the same company as last year but I assume it is they are the same ones i've had all 9 years and i'd rather not say thier name as they are a very large insurance carrier....

    I'm not sure what your asking ...
  9. patxxoo

    patxxoo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2011
    Ocala, FL
    See but that is part of my issue as a non analog user , yes, at this point I do still use nicotine, but this same company just last year (if you had the insurance that is) did start having a program for the employees that you could get the patches, gum and lozenges through and as I said this was only available for those whom had the insurance, which even at the time most employees didn't because this company mainly hires part time help, whom are not eligible for insurance ....
  10. trinifreak

    trinifreak Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 19, 2011
    Would nicotrol inhalers be considered smoking to? you are delivering nicotine to your lungs.
  11. grandmato5

    grandmato5 Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 30, 2010
    Unfortunately most health insurance companies consider e-cig use the same as smoking.
  12. patxxoo

    patxxoo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2011
    Ocala, FL
    See ... I just don't get it .... as far as I know and maybe I mistaken and maybe someone else can clarify for me

    nicotine is not tobacco ...
  13. patxxoo

    patxxoo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2011
    Ocala, FL
    At this point I have no clue...
  14. retird

    retird Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 31, 2010
    North Side
    hum, kinda like a catch 22.......e-cig groups wanted the FDA to classify e-cigs as a tobacco product (not as a drug delivery system), thus no FDA approval or testing, and now that they are "tobacco products", the insurance companies want to treat them as such (to make $$$)....

    Not "flaming" here, just an observation....
  15. patxxoo

    patxxoo Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2011
    Ocala, FL
    Huh? (and i'm not being sarcastic here, just confused) Obviously i'm a tad dense on this subject, but why would someone say pv's are a tobacco product ?
    I guess you could call them nicotine delivery systems (if that person happened to be using nic at the time and not running nonic juice) just as you could call my coffee pot a caffiene delivery system

    All's I know is that these new insurance prices are gonna really hurt alot of really good people I work with and it makes my heart hurt.
  16. ProsperityGal

    ProsperityGal Senior Member ECF Veteran

    I'm with you Uncle Willie.

    I originally got into e-cigs so that I can get my nicotine in the house instead of going outside and smoking analogs. I've tried quitting and it just did not work - several times.

    I have to say, nicotine is nicotine. I vape at 24mg. However, my house does not smell like cigarettes. Neither does my clothes, hair, breath, etc.

    I still do an analog or 2 a day (perhaps I'm addicted to something other than the nicotine in the analogs - YIKES!).

    I've only been vaping a little over a month.

    Just my 2 cents.......
  17. atom48

    atom48 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 27, 2009
    This is part of the dues of participating in an industry that is still in its infancy. Once there are more legitimate medical studies performed on e-cigs and vapor, then things will hopefully change. But for now, that's the way it is. When I applied for a life insurance policy a number of years ago they required a nicotine test. Of course, my test was positive, and I paid the higher rates. I just know better than to try to argue the fact at this point until there are more definitive facts to back up my arguement.
  18. frosting

    frosting Reviewer / Blogger Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 11, 2011
    All around completely ridiculous. I would love to give them a piece of my mind on this issue! Nicotine being about as harmful as caffeine, why are coffee drinker's rate's not sky high as well? Insurance companies I think, damn well know the problem is within the actual smoke of cigarettes. It doesn't shock me that many medical insurance companies are going to be intertwined with BP, Pfizer, that jazz. From that sense of course they won't recognize how much safer e-ciggs are but I still think it's worth trying to educate these insurance companies.
  19. Nunnster

    Nunnster Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 16, 2011
    Tampa, Florida
    Because depending on what you call them, different things will happen. Basically overall its good that they are classified as a tobacco product because it keeps the FDA away. If you called them a nicotine delivery system or nicotine replacement, the FDA would call it a "drug" and would regulate it if it got approved after their testing. Then BP would get into the picture and charge you an arm and a leg to get eliquid much like nic gum or patches. Or they could make it so its only by Rx and you would have to go see a doctor to get it. So all in all, even tho it sucks on the insurance side, its a good thing that they are "tobacco" products.
  20. stevejo

    stevejo Supplier ECF Veteran

    Apr 28, 2009
    Phoenix, AZ
    It's a double-edged sword:

    Nicotine delivery device -- not dinging you on insurance, but will require FDA approval and regulation, similar to prescription drugs and nicotine gum/patches/lozenges

    Tobacco products -- not FDA regulated, easier to sell/buy and bring new tech to market, but rapes you on insurance

    It's a whole other discussion, but I agree. I work in an industry that traditionally does not provide 'benefits' and I can attest to the cost of uninsured healthcare. It is truly sad to see people sick and in pain and unable to afford to correct it, whether through high 'smoker' insurance rates or lack of insurance alltogether.
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