Joel L. Nitzkin and open letter to FDA

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GregH

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I call bull****. The part requesting e-cigs be classified as a tobacco product is not an acceptable compromise. Somehow they allow the supplements industry to operate yet they want to put the brakes on this?
Perhaps that's what the ruckus is all about. Spread FUD in order to get buy in for new taxes.

I see it as the best possible compromise until or if a brand new classification for e-cigs is created. That would be the ideal solution. Trying the nicotine supplement route has been tried before and failed. Just ask the makers of the Nicotine Water.

So the only other two alternatives on the table right now are to be classified either as a drug or as a tobacco product. For the e-cig industry's immediate survival, I believe its best chance lies in being classified as a tobacco product.
 

ladyraj

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I call bull****. The part requesting e-cigs be classified as a Tobacco product is not an acceptable compromise. Somehow they allow the supplements industry to operate yet they want to put the brakes on this?
Perhaps that's what the ruckus is all about. Spread FUD in order to get buy in for new taxes.

Well, it seems that tobacco products are protected from banning...are e-cigs? Nicotine is not comparable to supplements as it is considered a drug...unless it's in tobacco products. So how do we go about protecting the technology for everyone that could benefit from it? Do we want prescription requirements or invest years needed to fast-track the availability of the product and more expensive research?

Again, it bears repeating...nicotine is not a vitamin or supplement, yes it is in our food (such as potatos and tomatos) but due to heavy lobbying by our enemies nicotine has been declared a drug (unless it's in tobacco products). Strange, but true! I'm for anything that will get these things in the hands of people who choose to use them. What say you...
 

Territoo

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    I call bull****. The part requesting e-cigs be classified as a Tobacco product is not an acceptable compromise. Somehow they allow the supplements industry to operate yet they want to put the brakes on this?
    Perhaps that's what the ruckus is all about. Spread FUD in order to get buy in for new taxes.

    You can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless there is a new classification for e cigs, which may happen someday, but not in the near future, it's either gotta be as a tobacco product w/ its associated taxes, or a drug. Classifying it as a drug will lead to continuation of the FDA ban, pending studies that won't get done if this is not on the market.

    Final options: 1) having ecigs readily available, but taxed, or 2) not available at all requiring us to go back to analogs and pay the tobacco taxes on them. We're gonna get taxed either way.
     

    Janetda

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    I feel that classifying e-cigs as a tobacco product is appropriate. However, there needs to be subcategories established. It’s simply not logical to tax e-cigs or smokeless tobacco products at the same rate as combustible tobacco. The current “sin” tax levied against combustibles is justified as a way to pay for anti-smoking campaigns, additional health care costs and to discourage smokers. I would imagine that a far less amount of tax would be appropriate to encourage current smokers to change to a less risky behavior.
     

    sherid

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    So, a percentage of e cig users are not using nicotine. I would venture that a much larger percentage of e cig users do want nicotine in the mix, so how would having an e cig without nicotine help the greatest majority of users? I doubt that an e cig without nicotine would be of much use to nearly anyone at the start. Those who have gone to 0 nicotine started with it and worked their way down to 0. Many of us have no intention of doing that.
     

    aditas

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    So, a percentage of e cig users are not using nicotine. I would venture that a much larger percentage of e cig users do want nicotine in the mix, so how would having an e cig without nicotine help the greatest majority of users?
    Why would I care about the majority. All I care is about MY freedom to choose a liquid separately from my dispenser. I want to vape without the burdened of paying a tobacco tax. These measures seem to be advocating that I pay an additional tax.
     

    ladyraj

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    Why would I care about the majority. All I care is about MY freedom to choose a liquid separately from my dispenser. I want to vape without the burdened of paying a tobacco tax. These measures seem to be advocating that I pay an additional tax.

    I hope you're kidding but in case you aren't...People are referring to the probability there may be a tax...but the most likely tax that may be added is sales tax. If you don't want to pay sales tax, order from China.

    Most excise and federal taxes are punitive in nature to the tobacco companies and make it harder to sell their wares. To date no one is looking to add these taxes to e-cigs...maybe in the future but time will tell.:D
     

    aditas

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    Same here.
    I'm reminded of another choice I had to make a little while ago where McCain, Clinton and Obama were all in favor of the bailouts, and I was like where is my choice of presidential candidate who opposes the bailouts.
    Same here these options somehow have eliminated the only action by the FDA that makes sense. The requirement that a label be put on the bottles that says that this liquid causes cancer in laboratory animals (if of course that happens to be the case).
     

    GregH

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    The way I understand it is that, if e-cigs are grouped in as tobacco products, stricter labels will be about all the FDA could do at first. The new smoking law strictly forbids the FDA from banning tobacco and nicotine. The new law requires more graphic warnings on the packaging, huge restrictions on marketing/advertising, and a panel to study the effects of lowering nicotine. Any taxation that would come as part of being lumped in with tobacco products is nothing but conjecture at this point. We are just assuming that is what would happen.

    On the other hand, if e-cigs are considered a drug delivery system, then the FDA has complete power to institute a total ban.

    Like it or not -- as with the presidential race -- those are the only two possible choices.
     

    sherid

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    Why would I care about the majority. All I care is about MY freedom to choose a liquid separately from my dispenser. I want to vape without the burdened of paying a tobacco tax. These measures seem to be advocating that I pay an additional tax.
    Oh, well, of course then....the suppliers and all of those trying to save the e cig will do whatever makes just one vaper happy while sacrificing everyone else. Sorry, but in this battle, your individual wants have little to do with reality.
     

    Territoo

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    I feel that classifying e-cigs as a tobacco product is appropriate. However, there needs to be subcategories established. It’s simply not logical to tax e-cigs or smokeless tobacco products at the same rate as combustible tobacco. The current “sin” tax levied against combustibles is justified as a way to pay for anti-smoking campaigns, additional health care costs and to discourage smokers. I would imagine that a far less amount of tax would be appropriate to encourage current smokers to change to a less risky behavior.

    Why would I care about the majority. All I care is about MY freedom to choose a liquid separately from my dispenser. I want to vape without the burdened of paying a tobacco tax. These measures seem to be advocating that I pay an additional tax.

    First of all is the mistake of thinking anything our government does is logical. Banning ecigs but allowing tobacco, for cripes sake! If ecig usage is not banned, then it will be taxed with the same "sin" tax as tobacco. After all they "are" tobacco products under the current scheme of things, either that or its a drug thus will be banned.

    If FDA did have a lick of sense and allowed vaping, but taxed it like tobacco, then it would be logical to tax it base on the amount of nicotine content, ie 24mg juice would have 2x the tax of 12mg. Using this argument, then 0mg juice would not have a tax at all. But that assumes the government is logical, which we've already determined that it's not.

    Aditas,

    You don't have to buy 0mg nic juice. Just get you some PG and/or VG plus flavoring and make your own. These ingredients are readily available now and are not at risk of being banned. First thing that will become scarce is the nic juice, followed by the equipment, mainly atomizers. There are many battery mods which use standard batteries. Most people are capable of buying the supplies at Radio Shack and building their own. Instructions can be found elsewhere on this forum
     

    Vocalek

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    I do recommend not throwing away any dead equipment. It may have value in the future. I'm sure there are some whiz kids out there who can revived dead attys using baling wire and chewing gum!

    How about batteries that won't hold a charge (only 5 months old).
     

    JrdUK

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    I do recommend not throwing away any dead equipment. It may have value in the future. I'm sure there are some whiz kids out there who can revived dead attys using baling wire and chewing gum!

    There are a few modder on here that will make you up adapters etc for a cheap price if you supply them with some broken parts they can use for the threads etc
     
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