FDA July CASAA message to community

[Ipster]

in the July newsletter from CASAA its somewhat encouraging to read:
"FDA Deeming Rumors Speculation abounds regarding compliance deadlines and what this will mean for vapor retailers and manufacturers. Consumers are increasingly becoming aware that August 8th, 2016 is the effective date of the deeming regulation. Although three very important things happen on this date, they are unlikely to impact consumer access to vapor products in a substantial way"

 

[collinsmcrae]

All except for the fact that there will be no new products introduced, which is a huge driving force behind the industry. Without new products, people will be buying less and less so the market will likely take heavy losses.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

While we will most probably still have access to anything that's out there already, they will probably be a heck of a lot more expensive since they can be 'taxed for more public health'..

 

[Ipster]

All except for the fact that there will be no new products introduced, which is a huge driving force behind the industry. Without new products, people will be buying less and less so the market will likely take heavy losses.

CollinsMcRae, yet to "qualify", we should remember, no new USA products that haven't been through the certification process.

1. Many of our products now arent manufactured in the UsA, it's my understanding that state by state laws will or will not be introduced concerning online and overseas purchasing.
2. The products in the USA (Im being a wee bit smug as a Provarinati) willing to fight and endure the process, may just see a future meeting in the middle of the road. I'm hoping this will change in due course with the law suits and protests. When our reps see the industry they're putting out of work,and the rumors begin to be dispelled- my optimism is this will get better, be amended, or repealed.
3. I fear mostly for our ProVari size companies- be they liquid manufacturers or Hardware- there's mostly really diligent safety oriented ppl in the industry- smaller companies are at risk, no doubt.

So yes, I've been doing some stocking myself.
Yes Im an optimist,albeit....it gets harder month by month.
WRITE YOUR REPS....TELL ThEM TO GET EDUCATED TELL THEM WHY.

 

[collinsmcrae]

CollinsMcRae, yet to "qualify", we should remember, no new USA products that haven't been through the certification process.

1. Many of our products now arent manufactured in the UsA, it's my understanding that state by state laws will or will not be introduced concerning online and overseas purchasing.
2. The products in the USA (Im being a wee bit smug as a Provarinati) willing to fight and endure the process, may just see a future meeting in the middle of the road. I'm hoping this will change in due course with the law suits and protests. When our reps see the industry they're putting out of work,and the rumors begin to be dispelled- my optimism is this will get better, be amended, or repealed.
3. I fear mostly for our ProVari size companies- be they liquid manufacturers or Hardware- there's mostly really diligent safety oriented ppl in the industry- smaller companies are at risk, no doubt.

So yes, I've been doing some stocking myself.
Yes Im an optimist,albeit....it gets harder month by month.
WRITE YOUR REPS....TELL ThEM TO GET EDUCATED TELL THEM WHY.

I hadn't considered the potential loophole for new foreigne products between 8/16 and 8/18. I really hope that this works, because the industry will be severely crippled otherwise.

 

[Alexander Mundy]

<Snip>
"Although three very important things happen on this date, they are unlikely to impact consumer access to vapor products in a substantial way"

 

[Endor]

CollinsMcRae, yet to "qualify", we should remember, no new USA products that haven't been through the certification process.

1. Many of our products now arent manufactured in the UsA, it's my understanding that state by state laws will or will not be introduced concerning online and overseas purchasing.
2. The products in the USA (Im being a wee bit smug as a Provarinati) willing to fight and endure the process, may just see a future meeting in the middle of the road. I'm hoping this will change in due course with the law suits and protests. When our reps see the industry they're putting out of work,and the rumors begin to be dispelled- my optimism is this will get better, be amended, or repealed.
3. I fear mostly for our ProVari size companies- be they liquid manufacturers or Hardware- there's mostly really diligent safety oriented ppl in the industry- smaller companies are at risk, no doubt.

So yes, I've been doing some stocking myself.
Yes Im an optimist,albeit....it gets harder month by month.
WRITE YOUR REPS....TELL ThEM TO GET EDUCATED TELL THEM WHY.

My thoughts:

1. I honestly cannot see how a US State law can apply to a shipment from China. What, are they going to inspect every package that comes through the US Postal service (which is a Federal agency) to find my atomizer purchase from Fasttech? Sure, they are going to try and scare people, but I can't see them being successful in a private international transaction like this. Plus, I'm at the point with these regulations and laws where it is time to stand up for my personal freedoms and simply refuse to comply whenever possible.

2. The big concern with "enduring the process" is that there is no guarantee of success. The FDA holds all the cards in approving vapor products, with no guarantee that a product will be approved even with 3 reams of paper used in a submission. This, alone, is the crux of the PMTA problem.

3. I believe that most US vendors are already "safety oriented", and agree that the larger ones like Provari are more so. This means nothing in a PMTA, unfortunately, as the burden of proof goes way beyond that. The further unfortunate side effect goes back to my comment in #1 above, where vapers will be purchasing products from countries like China... where they've been known to add melamine to milk and use leaded paints for children toys. So while the FDA (and the public health mafia) claim a victory for public health, thousands or millions of current vapers that are now enjoying safe products made in the USA will be potentially exposed to unsafe products in an effort to work around the draconian regulation.

Although this seems to be a very negative viewpoint, I too am actually optimistic that something will shake loose on this before the hammer comes down.... either a change in the predicate date -or- an injunction granted by one of the pending lawsuits. But... tick tock.....

 

[Kent C]

The further unfortunate side effect goes back to my comment in #1 above, where vapers will be purchasing products from countries like China... where they've been known to add melamine to milk and use leaded paints for children toys.

Agree with most everything except the above. While it is true that has been the case, many China manufacturers corrected that and especially the main ecig manufacturers - Joyetech/eleaf, Kanger, Smok and others bringing in the same Swiss company that 'fixed' the toy problem as an objective quality control for their products.

The inspection of their labs by many of our vendors and reviewers - cignot, alt smoke, TW, nhaler when Drew was alive, Rob/liquidxpress and Pbarsardo, Grimm Green, leaford, - almost all with rave reviews on sanitary conditions, well organized, good people in charge, etc. My own conversations with Wayne at heaven gifts also confirm this.

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

The inspection of their labs by many of our vendors and reviewers

Agree Kent. Been using Chinese e-lquid for 2 years now. Haven't grown a 6th toe yet nor have Mrs. Kodiak's testicles fallen off (Yes, she owns 'em). China has such a large Asia/Euro market they have to be clean. For their own sake. Business suicide if they aren't.

1. The products in the USA (Im being a wee bit smug as a Provarinati) willing to fight and endure the process,

Not aware of ProVape "fighting" anything right now. Has that changed? It'd be a shame for them to fall. That said, it would be a sin to skip one of their $35 v2.5 Provari's. Sleek, beautiful, simple devices. I have 3. They'll all outlive me.

 

[Endor]

Agree with most everything except the above. While it is true that has been the case, many China manufacturers corrected that and especially the main ecig manufacturers - Joyetech/eleaf, Kanger, Smok and others bringing in the same Swiss company that 'fixed' the toy problem as an objective quality control for their products.

The inspection of their labs by many of our vendors and reviewers - cignot, alt smoke, TW, nhaler when Drew was alive, Rob/liquidxpress and Pbarsardo, Grimm Green, leaford, - almost all with rave reviews on sanitary conditions, well organized, good people in charge, etc. My own conversations with Wayne at heaven gifts also confirm this.

Kent, you are correct. The manufacturers you mention certainly seem to run professional and clean facilities, no doubt.

They also want to run an above-board business in the US (a huge market I'm sure), as evidenced by their participation in SEVIA.

When I wrote my post, I was thinking more along the lines of a company wanting to enter the black market. Those same reviewers (Dimitri and Phil) did get a slice of the more "shady" side of that world when they visited a clone manufacturer.... oily CNC machines, product stored and sorted in relatively dirty conditions, etc.

So certainly there appears to be quite the spectrum of safety over there. For an atomizer that I can clean and sanitize, I don't really care. Eliquid.... that worries me. I know there are good manufacturers over there (e.g. Hangsen), but when you're buying from a company like FastTech, you just can't be 100% sure of what you're getting, even when it is labeled "authentic" on their site.

Plus, selling a bad product from China means that repercussions are rare and difficult. How do you sue them? The only recourse is that people stop buying the product, at which time they close up that shop and re-open under a different name. Dealing with all of that across international borders is difficult, if not impossible.

 

[Kent C]

When I wrote my post, I was thinking more along the lines of a company wanting to enter the black market.

Understood. And you're right as well. From my understanding many of the clones are from S.Korea but I'm sure there are some in China as well. From 'eGo types' forum, I saw the 'results' of FT early on. "Bought six eGos - one DOA, one lasted a week, but the other four are still going". That was repeated many times, in various forms with various products. I had 'favorites folder' with those type comments at one time but never used it. People are going to do what they do for a variety of reasons.