Just say NO to Just say no

[Tallgirl1974]

As far as DARE goes and them exaggerating, don't underestimate that when it comes to younger children. When I was younger and we had programs like that, some of that stuff scared the crap out of me.

I hate to pick a part a post but this just stood out to me..huge red flag. As a child care advocate and development specialist- this is, simply put, excatly what is wrong with our society IMO. Fear doesn't translate to making better choices. KNOWLEDGE translates, intelligence about what things are and what they do, translates. Self-esteem programs have been proven to work better than DARE. Give a child the power of knowledge, the guts to say no, dont force them into submission with fear. It doesn't work.
I have a huge problem with the DARE program. It is not working and is a monumental waste of tax payer monies. Its full of fear tactics and incorrect and misleading facts. Down right lies. Just makes me angry.

 

[Kimpetuous]

What bothers me about DARE is that they lump ALL drugs together. All drugs are equally bad for you. When kids find out that it isn't true and that some drugs alter your behavior more than others and some drugs are more addictive than others and some drugs are more dangerous than others, they tend to discredit EVERYTHING they have learned about the dangers of drugs and set about to find out for themselves.

 

[Superstargoddess]

I hate to pick a part a post but this just stood out to me..huge red flag. As a child care advocate and development specialist- this is, simply put, excatly what is wrong with our society IMO. Fear doesn't translate to making better choices. KNOWLEDGE translates, intelligence about what things are and what they do, translates. Self-esteem programs have been proven to work better than DARE. Give a child the power of knowledge, the guts to say no, dont force them into submission with fear. It doesn't work.
I have a huge problem with the DARE program. It is not working and is a monumental waste of tax payer monies. Its full of fear tactics and incorrect and misleading facts. Down right lies. Just makes me angry.

I guess that's also true. Different things work for different people and it was a while ago when I was a child, so I guess that's all they could come up with back then. It worked for me, but you are the expert, and I can see where what you say would also work better. But it is true, some stuff can kill you, probably even at a lower dosage.

I respect your informed opinion though, good to see some information from someone in your field.

 

[TheLizinator]

That is true, though for people who get them from a doctor, they could still not take the whole thing that they are supposed to. I see what you mean about overuse though, I didn't know that.

So you are saying that if they were over the counter and people took them for everything because they didn't know better, if would for sure make them sick? Seems like the same thing could be said for other over the counter things, but from what you say, something like Cipro could have a more devastating effect.

Doctors have been guilty of prescribing antibiotics because the patients come in requesting them for infection. It's an "quick-fix" rather than telling someone to take two aspirin and call me in 3 days. Everybody wants the doctor to "fix" them, instant gratification for paying so much and waiting so long to see the dr. Some illness just takes time to heal, and if there's anything you can say about patients it's that they are IMPATIENT. Misuse is there, but hopefully a physician will stress to a patient that they must take the full prescription. It would be better if it were explained to patients that things like Toxic Shock Syndrome exist and kill rapidly because the bacteria involved will not respond to antibiotics. They have evolved to become super-strains to resist existing antibiotics. My niece died of one of these when she was 34, lying brain dead for 6 wks before the family conceded she was essentially already gone.

Overuse and misuse have the same result; it affects all of us because the super strains spread and cannot be treated. They are not only drug resistant, they are stronger and more devastating and therefore life-threatening to everyone. Most don't realize the far reaching impact of this until and unless they become critically ill and nothing a hospital can do because antibiotics are useless.

You are more likely to get a staph infection at a hospital than any other place. That's because they over-sterilize everything, using antibacterials on everything. Bacteria may be thwarted, but those surviving become bigger and better than what we have to fight them. This is why there's been a recent campaign trying to educate people to stop using antibacterials for everything from body soaps to cleaners. Overkill that threatens all of us.

 

[Vocalek]

Baby Boomer here...

An entire generation shows you what comes of the government telling lies. In the 1960s the truth started to come out about marijuana. Kids coming of age became distrustful of any health information coming from the government. Hence the wild experimentation with marijuana, speed, and acid. And when the Surgeon General made his pronouncement about the evils of tobacco in 1964, what reason did the young have to believe him? On college campuses, a routine part of fraternity and sororoity "rush" parties was bowls full of cigarettes set out the way you would set out bowls of snacks.

We might have paid more attention to the warnings about tobacco if the government had not shoved "...... madness" down our throats.

 

[hxj]

That is true, though for people who get them from a doctor, they could still not take the whole thing that they are supposed to.

Right, but (in theory) a doctor should make it clear to you that it's very important to take the whole prescription, whereas if it were over the counter it's unlikely you'd read all the fine print.

So you are saying that if they were over the counter and people took them for everything because they didn't know better, if would for sure make them sick?

No, in some sense it's far worse than that; everybody overtaking antibiotics is apparently leading to the evolution of bacteria that's more resistant to those antibiotics. So what it leads to is the rise and spread of new diseases that aren't stopped by antibiotics, and one of our most powerful weapons against disease is becoming less and less effective. I think I've read somewhere that this was happening far more because of the routine practice of lacing cattle feed with tons of antibiotics than because of people overtaking them, but of course if antibiotics were OTC, human misuse would skyrocket.

 

[jamie]

Thank you Magestorm.

 

[Magestorm]

Mods, can we please move this thread back to news, or into campaigning? Most of these articles i do seem to stay there fine, but this time it's been put in the general e-smoking, and it's getting misclassified.

 

[Bones]

BigJimW, You don't have to ask at all. You have Carte Blanche permission to repost on your site. Just make sure to give the credit like you usually do.

And personally, I am against drugs. In my neighborhood, the demon known as .... has taken over, and i can't go down the street without a loaded sidearm. But, had someone back when they were doing DARE had been honest and not exaggerated some things, then we would not see people laughing at the real dangers thinking it's all overstatements and bullcrap.

EDIT - OK - I was redundant from not reading further - nevermind - or YEA!

 

[Magestorm]

Well, my personal opinions on this?

Pot- makes people grab a handful of kitty litter, eat it, and say "It's real crunchy". Makes you lounge around for a while, get the munchies that make you stuff your face, then sleep a while, no yelling and fighting, and is about as harmful or a tad more than traditional cigs

....-rots your teeth, bones, causes severe brain damage, liver damage, lung damage, heart damage, huge spikes in violent crime, people speeding out of their heads going nuts and raising hell all over, buildings used for manufacture wind up requiring hazmat suits on cops to raid it and are uninhabitable for years, if ever, require major cleanup to even be close to rendered safe for living in.

Hmmmm. I don't do either of those, but I can definitely see which one I would rather have in this neighborhood. If there were more idiots in this neighborhood smoking pot, maybe I'd not have to go through so many 12 gauge shotgun rounds.

 

[Territoo]

So you are saying that if they quit cold turkey in a prison, they will literally die? I have heard that they supposedly go through a lot of "pain" from withdrawl, but I do not believe that I have seen a documented case where they just "die". (Unless you count suicide, but I don't count that) However, I am open to the suggestion, and if you have an article of this actually happening- I would love to see it.

But Methadone... come on, there has to be something better than that. That itself is a very dangerous thing, and also something that is addictive. I mean really I guess that everything can be addictive to some point to different types of people, but there has to be something better.

But no, I have compassion for those who want help and want to quit. I just saw a guy on a rerun of taxicab confessions that had a drug problem and he seemed genuine that he wanted to quit and realized how bad it was an all of the problems that it causes. I really hope that guy got some help, it was one of their episodes in NYC back in 1995. But as sad as it is to say, some people can't be saved. I wish that they all could, but some people just won't get help and then it's too late.

Nobody should have to die for something like that, especially when typically the drug addiction is because of a much bigger issue in their lives. However, on the other side of it, I know people that abuse the system and abuse their own lives. My deceased uncles wife and her ..... daughters do drugs and milk the system for all its worth. Do they want help? Heck no! Do they think that they have a problem? No! I don't give 2 craps about what happens to them, and I don't care what their issues were, even though I don't know of anything that would cause them to be that way.

But I enjoy the banter and debate with you and everyone else here, great discussion this has become, even though it has amped up from PVs to drugs.

As for the person that said something about vitamins, I was thinking about something like that the other day and maybe someone here could shed some light on it for me. Why in the world can you not get Cipro (very popular and effective antibiotic) over the counter? Every time I go to the doctor for anything from a urinary tract infection to pneumonia, they always send me to get Cipro! (From the time I was a baby I have supposedly been allergic to Penecillin so I can't ever get that) I can't even see what would make it be so dangerous that you need a script for it!

First of all, no addict is thrown in prison to withdraw "cold turkey". I'm a physician at a maximum security state prison and we do have treatment protocols for those who come to us w/ an addiction, because they CAN die if they quit cold turkey. Methodone is what we use and it is an effective method, especially in prison where once they go through the gradual withdrawal of slowly tapering doses of the long-acting methodone, the prisoners (theoretically) have no further access to drugs and are clean. Yes, in the free world, some change their previous addictions to methadone addiction, but even then, that is safer to stop cold turkey than ...... or ....... or even, in some, alcohol. (BTW, nicotine is physiologically safe to withdraw from "cold turkey", but we all know it is hell to do so.)

As far as your antibiotics being OTC, it's not because they are dangerous. There's already enough problem with drug resistance because people demand that every ailment be prescribed antibiotics and most physicians are far to busy to argue. It's much quicker to write the script than to explain why you are not treating what is viral and will go away whether or not you take antibiotics. You make antibiotics OTC, then people will start popping them every time they sneeze. (Yes, I know in some countries, antibiotics are OTC. That doesn't change the facts) Some, not all, doctors who know their patients well will prescribe the antibiotics w/o an exam. You have to have a very good relationship w/ that doctor and have proven yourself to be reliable about reporting your symptoms. That's up to the doctor though. Due to liability, most will not.

I do agree w/ a lot that you say though. There are a lot of people who don't want help, and want society to take care of them while they do whatever they want. They are a major factor in a lot of this country's problems now. It irked me to no extent to see one of these people come in requiring treatment for a self inflicted condition for which they have no intention of correcting and no intention of paying for. Ethically, we are required to take care of them anyway. Even in the prison setting, there are those who do the same thing as opposed to those who realized they made a mistake, finally decided to grow up and do their time. Believe it or not, these offenders are as essential to society as those who work for a living and take care of themselves. They perform jobs that would require hiring and paying others to do, at taxpayers expense. These folks do earn their keep. The best example is what we call SSIs, esentially janitors for the prison. They are allowed in areas that other offenders are not. In medical, they often act as assistants to the nurses, helping w/ bathing, passing out meal trays, feeding those who cannot feed themselves, fetching things, etc.

 

[Bones]

Well, my personal opinions on this?

Pot- makes people grab a handful of kitty litter, eat it, and say "It's real crunchy". .

WHAAAAAAAtttttt?? - I never seen that reaction -

 

[Superstargoddess]

Doctors have been guilty of prescribing antibiotics because the patients come in requesting them for infection. It's an "quick-fix" rather than telling someone to take two aspirin and call me in 3 days. Everybody wants the doctor to "fix" them, instant gratification for paying so much and waiting so long to see the dr. Some illness just takes time to heal, and if there's anything you can say about patients it's that they are IMPATIENT. Misuse is there, but hopefully a physician will stress to a patient that they must take the full prescription. It would be better if it were explained to patients that things like Toxic Shock Syndrome exist and kill rapidly because the bacteria involved will not respond to antibiotics. They have evolved to become super-strains to resist existing antibiotics. My niece died of one of these when she was 34, lying brain dead for 6 wks before the family conceded she was essentially already gone.

Overuse and misuse have the same result; it affects all of us because the super strains spread and cannot be treated. They are not only drug resistant, they are stronger and more devastating and therefore life-threatening to everyone. Most don't realize the far reaching impact of this until and unless they become critically ill and nothing a hospital can do because antibiotics are useless.

You are more likely to get a staph infection at a hospital than any other place. That's because they over-sterilize everything, using antibacterials on everything. Bacteria may be thwarted, but those surviving become bigger and better than what we have to fight them. This is why there's been a recent campaign trying to educate people to stop using antibacterials for everything from body soaps to cleaners. Overkill that threatens all of us.

I'm very sorry to hear about your niece. Though I think that a few people may misunderstand what I mean in my case about the use of Prescription antibiotics. I am the type of person that doesn't have much money at all, and until recently, there was no doctor to go to for cheap anywhere around here. So pretty much, I had to be sick as hell to want to go to the doctor. I only go to the doctor for an illness (not including my mental stuff now) around once a year or once every few years.

For example- a few years ago I was pretty sick, but didn't want to go to the doctor. Thought that I just had bronchitis, since that's what I usually got the most. Hadn't been to the doctor for anything for a few years, there wasn't a cheap doctor around here at that time. Finally I woke up one morning and my throat was killing me, it was horrible. I couldn't hardly talk, couldn't swallow without a lot of pain, the whole nine yards.

So finally I decided to go to the doctor. I said "So what do you think, doc?" and he said "You have double pneumonia!" I about crapped myself, I had no idea! Basically the point is that there are some people out there that wouldn't take Cipro or some other prescription antibiotic for everything under the sun, and it makes us harder for us when they are harder to get. I know that probably a lot of people would use them for everything, which would be bad, but it's harder for people like me sometimes.

And I think that the laides out there will agree with me about when you get a Urinary Tract Infection, which luckily I have only had about 5 times in my whole life. When we get those we are under so much pain that we don't want to wait to go to the doctor, hell we can't even hardly leave the toilet most of the time! Even though it doesn't happen very frequently, I would love to have a small supply of Cipro on hand for when that type of thing comes up. (Not sure of the shelf life on cipro)

Territoo- I have previously been a corrections officer, so I know what it's like to take them to MedBay in a prison. It's sickening the amount of free medication that those people get in there. And you know that not all of them need whatever they are getting for various reasons. I couldn't believe the line of inmates that I took to the medical officer the first time that I rounded them up to go take their meds. Hell, those people get treated better in prison than most normal people like you and I! Some of them I felt really bad for, but some of them just seemed like they were taking advantage. (talking about them in general, not just the ones that may have been taking meds to get off of the other drugs they were on)

Also, quick odd story about a guy I met in prison and how some of their attitudes can be. Met this older fella, probably in his mid to late 50's in there. He had a tattoo with some rain clouds and rain on it and said that it stood for "The oppression of prison and THE MAN" and all that garbage. I said "Well, if prison is so oppressive and it's so bad, what did you do to get yourself in here?" He looked at me straight faced and said "I killed two people". I was like "Well, alright then!". Looked it up later on the internet when I got home, and indeed he had killed two people! Just odd the attitude that some of them have after doing something that made them deserve to be locked up!

 

[Territoo]

Territoo- I have previously been a corrections officer, so I know what it's like to take them to MedBay in a prison. It's sickening the amount of free medication that those people get in there. And you know that not all of them need whatever they are getting for various reasons. I couldn't believe the line of inmates that I took to the medical officer the first time that I rounded them up to go take their meds. Hell, those people get treated better in prison than most normal people like you and I! Some of them I felt really bad for, but some of them just seemed like they were taking advantage. (talking about them in general, not just the ones that may have been taking meds to get off of the other drugs they were on)

Also, quick odd story about a guy I met in prison and how some of their attitudes can be. Met this older fella, probably in his mid to late 50's in there. He had a tattoo with some rain clouds and rain on it and said that it stood for "The oppression of prison and THE MAN" and all that garbage. I said "Well, if prison is so oppressive and it's so bad, what did you do to get yourself in here?" He looked at me straight faced and said "I killed two people". I was like "Well, alright then!". Looked it up later on the internet when I got home, and indeed he had killed two people! Just odd the attitude that some of them have after doing something that made them deserve to be locked up!

Amen to that! They do get better health care, but certainly don't appreciate it. Once, while cleaning out a hidden area, the officers gather a one gallon size bag of various pills, all provided for free, that the offenders tossed. You bet if they were paying the prices that we paid, they wouldn't be throwing their meds away.

As for the guy w/ the tattoos, he thought HE was being oppressed??? He didn't think for a second about the two people he oppressed.....permanently. Makes me sick! Idiots!