Kanthal coil got skewed after dry firing

Status
Not open for further replies.

c4ppucino

Full Member
Jun 2, 2015
32
22
43
If I understand you correctly, that's good thinking. Inserting one of the mandrels for the coil jig (while cool) in the prepared coil works. The additional mass of the bit ......s ramp up as the unfired coil cures. Niiice.

Two downsides. Once it does (ramp up) and it can quickly since you've lowered the resistance substantially, you may "pop" one or both coils if you apply too much power, or too long. The other is you want to balance the firing of duals. It's been my experience that it's actually more work to pulse harden them separately, formed or strained.

But you're already thinking intuitively with this solution finding alternatives to what you've seen on the video. The common practice of forcefully yanking on coils to set them, shape or position them can totally distort them internally in terms of strain…as you recently discovered.

A similar technique uses distilled water. Keep a micro-dropper (metal dripper tip) handy as you dry burn or harden duals. A smidgen of a drop strategically placed on a hot point of the coil or end turn is usually enough to ...... over-heating there and allow the alt coil to catch up. In other words whether touching metal to coils while fired, using water, yankin at 'em…it's baby steps as these babies are delicate and fragile.

Strained coils, tension wound on as on the pin vise below…

full


Generally don't require much if any tweezing, hot point suppression or orientation of turns. They look just like the above out of the gate. Don't fire end turns first or middle out but evenly end-to-end. And if you chose a resistance (temperature) close to the point you enjoy won't likely ever go uncomfortably warm on you (unless vaped dry). They just glow to a nice uniform red point for up to 6 secs (longer if you add a turn, more mass) if you select a good balance for the atty.

Using strain you'll see more production from 24-guage. But I'd drop down to 3-3.2mm for slightly lower res. This you can do with a pin vise using ordinary drill bits which allow for a wide variety of temp targets. By this I don't just mean watts, but surface area which yields vapor! Balancing these.

You have a great atty with the deck on that Tsunami. Easiest to work with in terms of maintaining the strain you built with. Try a pin vise as I describe elsewhere. You can make and pulse (harden and oxidize) both spaced and contact (closed) coils with it in a fraction of the time with just a little practice. Then they just stay that way.

Good luck c4 :)

Yeah, tried that, shoving a metal jig into the coil when pre-firing, but it sparked and/or 'too low resistance'. 'Duh' moment for me, I'm basically shorting a circuit. It only became possible to do that with a ceramic jig that's non conducting.

Successfully done it with my current setup, 24 ga, 10 winds on 35 diameter. Without shoving a jig, pre-firing would just cause both the end wires (the ones connected to the poles) to glow bright, and then snapped off. With a ceramic jig in the middle, it pre-fired slow but nicely.

Tried with dropping water a bit, but the water ended up boiling and shoots at my fingers (hot!). I was using an empty liquid bottle as the water container and dropper tho, so maybe the water drops from the nozzle were too big.
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,723
14,401
Hollywood (Beach), FL
Yeah, tried that, shoving a metal jig into the coil when pre-firing, but it sparked and/or 'too low resistance'. 'Duh' moment for me, I'm basically shorting a circuit. It only became possible to do that with a ceramic jig that's non conducting.

Encountering our first shorts rebuilding is a bit shocking at first, yeah. LOL Especially when they arc. But it definitely gets our attention. It should. You don't want to vape at those temp's.

Successfully done it with my current setup, 24 ga, 10 winds on 35 diameter. Without shoving a jig, pre-firing would just cause both the end wires (the ones connected to the poles) to glow bright, and then snapped off. With a ceramic jig in the middle, it pre-fired slow but nicely.

Nopes. Firing a well formed coil won't cause the end turns to glow. A loose or bad connection (the effect of more resistance) typically will as the leads represent less resistance than the rest of the wind. What I said is if there is greater strain in the leads…which can easily be added during the set…this strain (elongates) the wire lowering the resistance. Guess what happens? The leads will heat up and light up on ya.

Using a ceramic rod as the means to create a wind is not very effective. When you fire wire it softens (annealing) expanding and possible re-shaping the wind if enough. That's why it's kinda holding it's shape as the rod seems to help when watts low. In fact, you've slightly changed diameter and spacing likely making it looser on the rod. But we don't vape generally at low watt's.

To form something and train it into a shape you need heat and force, either bending or tension (strain) or a combination of both. The wind still needs to be hard enough to withstand repeated re-heating and that's where strain comes in imparting that additional hardness into the wire in the form of strain. Heating a wire on rod won't do that.

Tried with dropping water a bit, but the water ended up boiling and shoots at my fingers (hot!). I was using an empty liquid bottle as the water container and dropper tho, so maybe the water drops from the nozzle were too big.

Yeah, a bit too much. You just graze, barely touch, the wire with one of those needle-tip bottles and get a micro-drop.

All I can say, is keep the rods. They're handy once you know how to create a stable wind. Getting there…I can't emphasize enough that you try to tension wind one. If you're not ready to jump for a pin vise get a common screwdriver with a known diameter. Say 1/4" shank for approx 3.2mm Ø. Tape the wire to the handle and rotate while pulling firmly until they turns get sticky. You will know very clearly when this happens. Chances are good to perfect having seen what they fire like after oxidation that you'll never look back at a bad vape.

Best of luck c4. :)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: stols001

vapdivrr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 8, 2012
9,966
19,932
60
sarasota,fl
One of my ill fated experiments as well first year I was proofing strain winding (along with hot winding ceramic wick). This was before someone came out with the "kits". Anything requiring protracted hand holding or handling before rigidity is locked in is going to add risk of mangling. And despite all the videos I never hot wrapped a ceramic wick successfully or at least to my satisfaction. I did figure out how to do a precise t.m.c. for ceramic/stone wick and easily prepare one but the media doesn't compare with the flow rates possible with RxW.

Bottom line…rigidity, it's good for the vape. When strain forms the coil you don't need a rod to preserve it. You just need to ramp up pulsing slowly from a low power level as you suggest, not to exceed the energy input with tension to form it.

Do use coilers sparingly, have a bunch of em. Mostly to set up comparison builds for new vapers. They disappoint me as I'm used to an almost 100% success rate most importantly maintaining diameters with a pin vise. And I can always space out a strained wind if needed.

Good luck. :)
I haven't seen my hot wrap vid in a long time. I got a chuckle when I mentioned that the 28g wire was quite thick and can handle the heat....back then it was considered really thick wire. Now people are using such thick wires compared to 28g.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,723
14,401
Hollywood (Beach), FL
I haven't seen my hot wrap vid in a long time. I got a chuckle when I mentioned that the 28g wire was quite thick and can handle the heat....back then it was considered really thick wire. Now people are using such thick wires compared to 28g.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Well it was! And I tried my best vap, I truly did. :D

Do you realize we're 5-year old, old timer's. Thanks for the memories.

Good luck. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: puffon

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,723
14,401
Hollywood (Beach), FL
And to you my friend

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Well that was a great video. And much appreciated.

These days I'm winding from 25AWG for sub 25W tanks up to the equiv mass of mebe 20AWG. Always low profile. Never at the apparent output temp of straight or multi-wire of that gauge. But frankly much, much…did I say much?…cooler as evident from the wire surface temps of the below.

What can I say? \shrug

CYA out there and good luck vap. :)

p.s. Thank goodness I never started making tubes…I would've never had the time.
 

vapdivrr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 8, 2012
9,966
19,932
60
sarasota,fl
Well that was a great video. And much appreciated.

These days I'm winding from 25AWG for sub 25W tanks up to the equiv mass of mebe 20AWG. Always low profile. Never at the apparent output temp of straight or multi-wire of that gauge. But frankly much, much…did I say much?…cooler as evident from the wire surface temps of the below.

What can I say? \shrug

CYA out there and good luck vap. :)

p.s. Thank goodness I never started making tubes…I would've never had the time.
love reading your posts, always to perfection and right on.....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
  • Like
Reactions: MacTechVpr

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,723
14,401
Hollywood (Beach), FL
love reading your posts, always to perfection and right on.....

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

There are three kinds of men: the one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence for themselves. —Will Rogers

Well, we need to help preserve the English language…some of us just don't get it until we see it in print. And I've already done too much of the latter. :D

TY vap, it's been fun.

Good luck. :)
 

c4ppucino

Full Member
Jun 2, 2015
32
22
43
So C4, how's it shakin'. Hope you got the vape on.

Good luck. :)

Hi, sorry for late reply.

Yeah I managed to build stable coils for my Tsunami now, with the help of the ceramic rod. Another 'duh moment' for me: never cool down the ceramic rod by dunking it into water. It cooled super fast, but after doing it 3-4 times, the rod snapped middle way, when I was pulling it to tighten an installed coil, one day. Seemed like rapid heating and cooling made the rod brittle. Luckily the snapped part was not too long, so it still got enough length left to work with.

Now I'm looking for a better (or at least the same flavor level) replacement for my Tsunami 24, but that's a different topic :)
 

MacTechVpr

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 24, 2013
5,723
14,401
Hollywood (Beach), FL
Hi, sorry for late reply.

Yeah I managed to build stable coils for my Tsunami now, with the help of the ceramic rod. Another 'duh moment' for me: never cool down the ceramic rod by dunking it into water. It cooled super fast, but after doing it 3-4 times, the rod snapped middle way, when I was pulling it to tighten an installed coil, one day. Seemed like rapid heating and cooling made the rod brittle. Luckily the snapped part was not too long, so it still got enough length left to work with.

Now I'm looking for a better (or at least the same flavor level) replacement for my Tsunami 24, but that's a different topic :)

Thx for the comeback C4. Alls I can say, is I'm happy in 30-seconds winding with strain and a drill bit…

full


Pin vise strain winding forms the coil by adding rigidity internally. Add undue stress to the leads or wind itself in installation and if enough to mangle it during pulsing it will skew it in installation. A tremendous visual cue and tool to improve the method used for a particular or any atomizer. This is apart from the significant performance advantage that can be gained from oxidizing a tensions contact (closed) coil.

Hope you give it a chance and glad to help if anything gets sideways on ya. :D

Good luck. :)

p.s. I love the Tsunami deck.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread