Kayfun Clone Issues

[psychonaut25]

Hey everyone, I hope I am posting this in the correct forum. Here goes...

I am using a Tobeco kayfun clone that I bought a few months ago. I run it on my iTaste MVP 2.0 at around 8-8.5 watts. I use 30 gauge, A1 kanthal, and I usually do 9-coil wraps where I shoot for about 2.3-2.4 ohms. It used to be that I only needed to do rebuilds about once a week...however, lately after about 24 hours of use, the vapor starts to reduce in volume & taste funny. So lately I've been literally doing rebuilds every 2 days or so, sometimes even every day. This doesn't seem normal to me.

I do have a couple of options... I could try switching to nichrome, but I don't think it's a coil problem (it seems to be more of a wick problem, granted the gunk that builds up on the coil does resemble iron rust a bit). My other option is to switch back to silica wick (I know this is an unpopular opinion but I actually prefer silica wick over cotton...it's just that cotton is so much cheaper/more readily available at local stores). However, I thought before I do any of that I ought to come here and see if anyone else has experienced similar issues, has any feedback or input, etc. Thoughts? Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

 

[derogg]

Have you been doing the same builds the whole time and this just started happening? Did you change E liquids?
- Dirk

 

[DingerCPA]

Hey psychonaut!

I've been wrestling with my kayfun clones as well, but I think I am making a bit of headway. Using 30g A-1 kanthal, I've changed the diameter of my wrap - I used to use a 1/16" drill bit (about 8-9 wraps lands me about 1.7-1.9 ohms - great for my kanger heads). I would have all kinds of burnt hits and notice that my juice would get really dark in the tank. Finally started wrapping around one of the tiny screwdrivers that came with my kf minis. Might be about 3/32? Not sure. I wick with cotton (although another member sent me a sample of the cellucotton that everyone's talking about now) and I'm finding my draws are smoother, I'm getting fewer burnt hits (if any at all) and flavor and vapor have improved (even with cotton.) I can also tell that my juice doesn't darken anywhere near as quickly as it used to.

I would have to agree - rebuilding every day isn't typical IMO. I basically dryburn and rewick about once a week. It's only been a couple of weeks since I did my last run of rebuilds, so I'll have to see how long they last this time around.

Not sure if any of this is helpful - I just knew I was getting too many burnt hits, and it was making everything taste nasty.

 

[UncleChuck]

Assuming you didn't switch to a really gunky juice it definitely sounds like something is wrong.

A few things to check:

Some clones have poorly drilled juice channels which can cause issues, do yours look like all the other Kayfun pics or are they smaller? Also clean the deck and base, as well as the inside of the chimney, I've had some bits of stray cotton fibers collect in a juice channel and cause issues before, clean them out with something that won't leave behind debris (or just wash with water and let air dry)

When this change happened, do you notice an increased instance of dry hits along the way, or does the build simply not last long? Severe coil gunking and bad flavor/vapor usually mean not enough juice is getting to the coil, assuming you don't have overlapping coils or other issues with the coil itself.

Not enough juice could be from plenty of factors. The juice could be too thick, there might be big pressure/temp changes that you bring the atty through which causes feeding problems, not enough or too much cotton (in the coil, wick thickness in other words) as well as long wick tails taking up too much space inside the chamber and blocking the juice channels.

When you assemble your atty it's a good idea to put the lower chimney portion on first, adjust the wick with a needle or something from above, take some vapes off it to make sure it tastes fine, then replace the chimney cap and assemble the rest of the atty. This way you can be sure the wicks are laying properly inside the chamber, specifically you don't want them blocking the juice channels (a diagonal coil can help here so that your wick tails naturally avoid the channels)

I'm sure you'll be able to get to the bottom of this, assuming no major manufacturing flaws in the atty with enough effort you'll get it working great, don't worry! Hope this helps!

 

[psychonaut25]

Well, I will admit I have changed liquids, but only because I simply cannot afford to continue paying a $0.50 per mL. I found Steam Juice from Cali, and they sell 120mL for like $27 and this has been a godsend for me. Also, the problems didn't start happening until a little while after I made the switch. I should've mentioned that I use 50/50 blend, and the flavor is a mixture of pineapple, coconut, & mango.

Secondly, in response to Dinger. I use a 5/64 drill bit to wrap my coils. I get the impression that the "bit" you're using is even smaller diameter than that, so I suppose I could try something like that. I'll look into the cellucotton (never heard of it, but I'm not one of those people who constantly pays attention to every new thing that comes out... I just want to avoid tobacco, and when I find something that works for me I usually stick with it instead of trying new things...o'course this is a special situation).

Lastly, UncleChuck. The juice channels look fine to me, based on pics I've seen... but I have never seen a real Kayfun nor a Russian 91. However I do clean the deck base & the insides of the chimney (you're right, sometimes they get gunky). However, when this change happened I did not notice an increased instance of dry hits, just that the coil seems to go bad a lot faster than normal... and generally speaking the coils do not overlap (if they do it messes with my target resistance so I try to avoid this pretty diligently). I do notice that I seem to have better luck with thinner but longer wick... I've never had it be so long that it blocked the juice channels, but I have had it be too short to wick properly (and I've also had it too thick, which causes it to go bad even faster, so I try to make the cotton fairly thin). As far as putting it back together & testing it out, I do that already. I make a diagonal coil and then I put on the lower chimney, and THEN I use a mini screwdriver to push the wick into place. However, what you're saying makes me think maybe I should make a bigger effort to not stuff it all the way down there, but to just lightly press it down. I had always assumed the cotton should be right up against the channel in order to properly absorb liquid, but I could see that maybe being the issue, so I'll try that next time.

Thanks everyone for the help, and just because I've replied doesn't mean more people who read this should not reply. I could use all the help I can get! Thanks again everyone

P.S. If anyone knows where I can find a juice retailer who sells large quantities at bulk prices, please let me know! I prefer basic flavors like coconut, rather than mixed flavors with confusing names like "Jamba Juice" or something like that...but most of the retailers that offer these bulk deals seem to only have these weird signature flavors that are mixtures of flavors. I just want a coconut flavor that I can get en masse, basically.

 

[UncleChuck]

However, what you're saying makes me think maybe I should make a bigger effort to not stuff it all the way down there, but to just lightly press it down. I had always assumed the cotton should be right up against the channel in order to properly absorb liquid, but I could see that maybe being the issue, so I'll try that next time.

I've seen people with successful builds done both ways, but if you are having issues it's something I'd try out. Not being able to see inside the chamber I can't tell for sure, but I imagine that with the channel holes being open without any cotton covering them, when you inhale it would flood the whole base of the chamber and the wicks would just absorb it like in a dripper. Where as with the cotton covering the holes, it can't flow in as quickly, and the juice would have to travel through the wick instead of just flowing up and around the whole tail of the wick.

I'd still suggest getting the tails to touch the base, but just have them offset so that the little holes for the channels are exposed.

Another suggestion would be to increase the diameter of your coil and wick, as sometimes skinny wicks just aren't up to the job. I know you said you've had good luck with skinny wicks, but I wasn't sure if you meant performance wise or reliability wise so I figured I'd throw it out there. The little cheap screwdrivers that come with most rebuildables are a good size for trying a larger coil.

 

[psychonaut25]

Another suggestion would be to increase the diameter of your coil and wick, as sometimes skinny wicks just aren't up to the job. I know you said you've had good luck with skinny wicks, but I wasn't sure if you meant performance wise or reliability wise so I figured I'd throw it out there. The little cheap screwdrivers that come with most rebuildables are a good size for trying a larger coil.

To be honest the little screwdrivers I got are even smaller diameter than my 5/64 drill bit. And what I meant was, the wick seems to get gunked up quicker & go bad quicker if I make it too thick (i.e. if it presses too hard against the coil)... but if I were to wrap the coil to a thicker diameter, then I could make the cotton thicker to compensate.

 

[MattyTny]

You should check out

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/446263-micro-coils-ohms-description.html

On the MVP2 you can go lower in resistance and I feel the kayfun would workwell around 1.5-2.0. You can try a microcoil on a 5/64 or slightly larger bit with 28gauge. The reason why I say that is the I.D. will be a nice width to wick well and you can hit your target resistance with the 28gauge in 10-12 wraps.

Use cotton too.

 

[DavidOck]

Try just re-wicking the coil, after cleaning and dry burning to clear the crud off the Kanthal. The coil itself may be just fine after that. Snip the wick close on one side, and gently pull it out the other. Dry burn. Rewick.

 

[psychonaut25]

Try just re-wicking the coil, after cleaning and dry burning to clear the crud off the Kanthal. The coil itself may be just fine after that. Snip the wick close on one side, and gently pull it out the other. Dry burn. Rewick.

I've tried this before with little success. If I re-wick the same coil, then it goes back to producing a large volume of vapor, but the poor taste remains. I even cleaned the coil with 190 proof everclear, same result. But with that said, even if the results were positive I would still like to find a solution that doesn't involve taking apart the Kayfun on the daily (even if it's just for re-wicking as opposed to a new coil build).

You should check out

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/reos-mods/446263-micro-coils-ohms-description.html

On the MVP2 you can go lower in resistance and I feel the kayfun would workwell around 1.5-2.0. You can try a microcoil on a 5/64 or slightly larger bit with 28gauge. The reason why I say that is the I.D. will be a nice width to wick well and you can hit your target resistance with the 28gauge in 10-12 wraps.

Use cotton too.

Is there any particular reason why more wraps in 28 gauge would be superior to fewer wraps in 30 gauge? I've used 28 before and I did not particularly like it... I go through the coil faster (due to using greater lengths of coil to do 10-12 wraps).

To be honest the little screwdrivers I got are even smaller diameter than my 5/64 drill bit. And what I meant was, the wick seems to get gunked up quicker & go bad quicker if I make it too thick (i.e. if it presses too hard against the coil)... but if I were to wrap the coil to a thicker diameter, then I could make the cotton thicker to compensate.

Ok, so I was wrong, the screwdrivers are literally the same diameter as the 5/64ths drill bit.

I'd still suggest getting the tails to touch the base, but just have them offset so that the little holes for the channels are exposed.

I tried your suggestion. Granted I only built the coil about an hour ago, but I have already noticed that I get a dry hit every now & then unless I inhale really hard without firing every few hits. So, while it is working relatively well, covering the channels with the wick seems to work better...but I won't know for sure for the next couple of days/until this build goes bad

 

[Pocha]

I am having an almost identical problem. Let me preface this by saying this is my FIRST ever coil build. Also on a KFL+ clone (Ehpro) on an MVP. I'm having to rewick/dry burn every other day. Day 1...flavor and vapor are good, day 2...flavor gets "funny"...not exactly burnt just weird, kind of like an old carto that needs to be replaced and vapor production goes WAY down. The juice color doesn't appear to change much if at all.

When I break it down to rewick and clean the coil looks pretty gunked up/black but the wick looks ok and doesn't appear to be burnt. The coil appears to clean up and fire fine.

Coil: 12 wraps of 28 Kanthal on a 3/32 (or possibly 5/64, can't remember exactly) drill bit; 1.9 ohms (has not fluctuated at all)
Wick: organic unbleached cotton
Juice: 50/50 Mother's Milk

I've tried running it anywhere between 8 and 10 watts

I've noticed that the coil crackles and pops a lot. Not sure if that's good or bad. I've watched all the coil building and wicking videos and I make sure the juice channels are clear and try to make sure I don't use too much wick but it always *seems* like I'm using less that the people in the tutorials and my cotton is not as "fluffy."

Not sure what I'm doing wrong?

 

[DavidOck]

You might be using too little, then, as that can cause crackles and pops.

Yes, cotton does swell a bit, but you want some drag when pulling it through the coil. Not enough to deform the coil, but slightly snug.

Having the coil too low may also be a factor. It should be about 2 mm above the deck.

 

[Pocha]

I've tried using more cotton but then I get too much resistance when puling it thru. Maybe my tails need to be fatter? I'll keep practicing I guess...

 

[DavidOck]

You might want to have a look at this thread:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...kayfun-russian-wick-setup-works-great-me.html

and this one:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/tutorials/503153-kayfun-3-1-microcoil-cotton-guide.html

Same techniques with open coils, although the wraps will vary.

I tend to use the "bunny ears" method for length - put the lower end of the chimney on, pull the wick up, and trim about 1/4 inch above the top. Tuck down gently on both sides of the blocks with a toothpick or whatever. (And I use CelluCotton, but cotton is fine. Personally, I prefer either over silica )

 

[Pocha]

Thanks...I will check those out. I tried the bunny ears method last night. Got great vapor for awhile...this morning...not so much (already!!??). Getting frustrated.

 

[DavidOck]

Any chance you could post pics, step by step, of how you're building? Might be able to see something that doesn't come across well in just words...

 

[Pocha]

I will if I keep having problems. I just wicked it again this morning using the method in the first linked thread you provided and it's working GREAT (so far). I think I was not using enough wick before. Thanks for your help!

 

[DavidOck]

Good deal! Hope that's all it was.

Getting the wick right is the trickiest part of rebuilding, imo. Easy to see pics and vids of making coils (of all kinds!), but hard to show density of cotton or cellucotton, so that's a try try again

 

[psychonaut25]

I'd still suggest getting the tails to touch the base, but just have them offset so that the little holes for the channels are exposed.

Hey, that seemed to work! I didn't have to do another rebuild until yesterday, so I'm pretty optimistic about that. Thanks!

I've noticed that the coil crackles and pops a lot. Not sure if that's good or bad.

To me, crackling and popping sounds are a good sign. It means the juice is being properly vaped. Usually when I first build my coil, I get a lot of popping sounds when I fire it, but after about a day that usually goes away. However, obviously that first day after a rebuild is when I get the best quality of vapor, so I personally have noticed a correlation between the popping sounds & vapor quality... that's just me, though.

 

[AndriaD]

I have a couple of Tobeco clones myself, with the 2mm custom airflow, and have not had any particular problems with them. However I *have* noticed that using a "fatter" coil (larger inner diameter) actually works much better, *especially* with cotton -- with cotton I don't like to use anything smaller than 7/64. With rayon/cellucotton I might use 3/32, but that's the smallest I like to use. When I was using 5/64, I got a LOT more dry hits, plus they're really hard to get the wick into the coil. And with cotton, you nearly always need less than what you think is right -- cotton really swells as it gets saturated. Just the opposite with rayon; you need as much as you can POSSIBLY fit thru the coil without deforming it, because it compresses as it saturates.

I also notice more dry hits if I do that "micro-coil" compression, heating the coil and pressing the wraps together. It seems to concentrate the heat something awful, which is especially bad with cotton. I just try to make my wraps fairly close from the get-go, and don't bother compressing them, and once I stopped trying to make my coils all tight and pretty like the pics you see around here, they started working MUCH better, hardly get any dry hits. They don't have to be tight and pretty to work well.

I don't use that "bunny ears" technique; tried it at first, but it just wasn't wicking very well. Now, I cut the wick so that the ends are *just* resting on the "ledge", not down into the channels at all, and I pre-juice the wick right then, so I can make sure the wick is at the right level, and that it's "together" enough that when I screw on the bottom of the chimney, it doesn't move, or not much anyway. Then, before I screw on the top of the chimney, I look and make sure it hasn't moved, the wick is still straight with the ends touching the ledges; I hit the fire button to make sure things are working right, add maybe another drop of juice right on the coil, then close 'er up and fill.

Generally (99.9% of the time) it's perfect. Now and then, if I got a little carried away with the pre-juicing, I might get a bit of gurgle, which is easily cleared by holding it upside-down and blowing out thru the driptip, while holding a paper towel to the airhole -- to sop up whatever emerges, but also to keep any drops from flying into your eyes -- which burns like mad, trust me.

Andria