Keeping flavors tasty, fresh, and unsteeped

[purelyscientific]

Several times I've tested batches of juice right after making them and they were amazing. After a day or two their flavor would change for the worse and be just 'meh'. I was wondering if anyone has tried adding preservatives to their juice such as Butylayted hrdroxyanisole(BHA), sodium benzoate, or potassium sorbate. I've tried malic or citric acid but they don't work at all to protect flavor.

Side note- The flavor change was not caused by vapor tongue.

 

[boomerdude]

Hey Dude, long time no see. I find that fruit flavors tend to be good right out the gate. tobacco mixes are the only mixes that need a long steep IMHO.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Freezing? Just a thought

 

[Mr.Mann]

Several times I've tested batches of juice right after making them and they were amazing. After a day or two their flavor would change for the worse and be just 'meh'. I was wondering if anyone has tried adding preservatives to their juice such as Butylayted hrdroxyanisole(BHA), sodium benzoate, or potassium sorbate. I've tried malic or citric acid but they don't work at all to protect flavor.

Side note- The flavor change was not caused by vapor tongue.

Interesting question. I have found the same to be true (about half the time) and it can be quite nerve-racking and confusing as all get out! On one hand, it's kind of a simple fix: make smaller amount of those 'reverse-steepers' and call it a day. However, when you do have a recipe you really like, it would be nice to know that it won't take a downward spiral if you choose to make a large batch.

p.s. I love your side note! LOL. You know someone was going to say "drink some water." hahaha

 

[Boletus]

I'd keep it in the refrigerator. Maybe pre-mix the nic, PG and/or VG to save time and add the flavoring just before using?

 

[WillyZee]

not sure what is going on with your mixes ... however, I doubt it is something a preservative would fix.

 

[purelyscientific]

Hey Dude, long time no see. I find that fruit flavors tend to be good right out the gate. Tobacco mixes are the only mixes that need a long steep IMHO.

Booomerrrr! Long time no see indeed. I took a long break from DIY'ing. I finally got a handful of perfected juices and kind of took a break from experementing for a while but I'm back in the game now.

p.s. I love your side note! LOL. You know someone was going to say "drink some water." hahaha

Haha yep!! I was going to add a part about freezing and refrigerating too...I don't know why I didn't. XD
That being said....

Freezing? Just a thought

This would work if the flavors weren't degrading/changing over the course of 12 hours or less. I made a 10mL batch of vanilla cupcake batter and it tasted AMAZING. After around 6-7 hours of steadily vaping it, it started tasting off so I threw it in the freezer. I took it out a couple days later and it still tasted off. (This is how I know it wasn't vaper's tongue)

not sure what is going on with your mixes ... however, I doubt it is something a preservative would fix.

What's going on is the flavors are breaking down/degrading/oxidizing or something along those lines. This is the reason almost every food in my kitchen contains those flavor preservatives; to prevent that from happening. Why do you think a flavor preservative won't help preserve the flavor? Just a gut feeling or...?

 

[Hoosier]

I'd drop the total flavoring % a little bit on the next batch. See if it changes anything...

 

[1vapeatatime]

I've had that happen to me too. Not a lot but often enough to be irritating.
This is what I did to fix the problem.
I made 10 ml bottle of flavoring with the blended flavors that I chose, and then I made my juice using the flavoring. After about 3 days sure enough my juice started losing its character, so I just added a few more drops of premixed flavoring and voila!!! This time it stuck.
I only have this problem with two of my permanent juices, so it's no big deal. If this happens to me now with a new blend I just junk the juice.
I don't know why this happens...maybe when the elements of flavor start merging the different chemicals counteract or become catalytic. This happens when protein elements are present. But I'm not a chemist so I don't know what particular chemicals are or are not present in a specific flavor.
I've had it happen more when I mix highly concentrated flavors with regular flavors, and also noticed that it hardly ever happens(to me) with tobaccos.

If I make a fruit flavor and it's perfect before steeping chances are in a couple of days It won't be.

 

[purelyscientific]

This most recent juice was a yellow cake batter based juice. The recipe is as follows;
50/50 PG/VG Blend with 20mg nicotine
12% Yellow Cake batter by Flavorwest
2% Vanilla Cupcake By TFA
0.5% Acetyl Pyrazine by TFA

Side notes- I vape on a bully(aka phoenix v3) RDA with a 6 wrap 1.7ohm coil made with 32g kanthal on my provari at 5-5.2 volts

I don't think that too much flavor was the problem. I think for some reason the small(but very noticeable) amount of acetyl pyrazine that was added somehow broke down. I feel as if it is the cause of this negative change in flavor. Instead of a nice pop it has now become a sort of back note which tastes 'off'. Almost burny after a few tokes after dripping some fresh on an atomizer. It wasn't so much burny but that's the best way I can describe it. It isn't a gunked up coil. I've replaced my coil twice since then and I've vaped a few other juices in it and it has tasted fine.

I don't have the recipe for the last juice I had this problem with. I remember it was a mix with black raspberry and some other fruit..I think it may have been blueberry. It was a long time ago. I may have added a touch of ethyl maltol as well.

I suppose I could try to make the mix without the acetyl to see if that really is the cause. Such a shame, the acetyl really gave it this unique flavor. It was the best juice I've had in a while......until it went off.

Thanks for the tip 1vapeatatime. I'll give that a shot as well.

 

[Mr.Mann]

purelyscientifc,

I don't necessarily have any purely scientific (LOL) reasons for this but try that 'same' recipe in maybe 2 separate 5 mL batches: one with .25% AP and another one just like the first one you made that had an issue, but try that one at 70-75% VG. It *may* have just been too much much AP, or too much PG, but not necessarily AP by itself.

 

[dead not sleeping]

OP - welcome to the sometimes frustrating world of diy. What you are tasting at the beginning is a "mix" of different flavors. They are mixed, but still separate to a point. After a bit of time they chemically bond into something else that will taste different. The flavorings are a complex chain of molecules. The difference between two different flavors may only be how those molecules are arranged. Once put together, they chemically "self arrange" themselves, per science, into something else and that will change the way they taste. I go through 5 to 20 different versions of some mixes before I finally get the ratios right on them. They taste the same after months as they do after 5 minutes. Don't quit a mix because it gets blah after time, just keep at it. I would suggest getting your base flavor down, then start low and add your accents to it. That way you get to see how the additions react to the base flavor you don't want to disappear and can adjust accordingly. You will be surprised at how just a little can turn into a lot. Almost all of my mixes are at or under 8% total flavoring. Less is more imo.

 

[logun]

OP - welcome to the sometimes frustrating world of diy. What you are tasting at the beginning is a "mix" of different flavors. They are mixed, but still separate to a point. After a bit of time they chemically bond into something else that will taste different. The flavorings are a complex chain of molecules. The difference between two different flavors may only be how those molecules are arranged. Once put together, they chemically "self arrange" themselves, per science, into something else and that will change the way they taste. I go through 5 to 20 different versions of some mixes before I finally get the ratios right on them. They taste the same after months as they do after 5 minutes. Don't quit a mix because it gets blah after time, just keep at it. I would suggest getting your base flavor down, then start low and add your accents to it. That way you get to see how the additions react to the base flavor you don't want to disappear and can adjust accordingly. You will be surprised at how just a little can turn into a lot. Almost all of my mixes are at or under 8% total flavoring. Less is more imo.

Which company flavors do you use for your recipes? Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[dead not sleeping]

I use CAP, TFA, WL, LOR, FA, I make my own mulberry, because I can't find mulberry, and I happen to have a tree of it. Some are better than others in different circumstances.

 

[yorg]

I use CAP, TFA, WL, LOR, FA, I make my own mulberry, because I can't find mulberry, and I happen to have a tree of it. Some are better than others in different circumstances.

Care to share your mulberry recipe dead not sleeping? I have a mulberry tree too, rather tasty wee morsels I haven't to much experience with berry flavorings, except for some blueberry extra from TFA, which goes from delicious freshly mixed, to off and cardboard tasting after a week.

I've ordered some bilberry by Flavor Art, and several different cherries by various companies.

 

[dead not sleeping]

Care to share your mulberry recipe dead not sleeping? I have a mulberry tree too, rather tasty wee morsels I haven't to much experience with berry flavorings, except for some blueberry extra from TFA, which goes from delicious freshly mixed, to off and cardboard tasting after a week.

I've ordered some bilberry by Flavor Art, and several different cherries by various companies.

Takes a bit of time. Cover crushed mulberries with pure grain alcohol. You dont need many berries. Wait and wait some more. About a month. Strain thru cheesecloth then filter paper. Add twice volume of PG. Wait some more. Evaporate the alcohol in 200 degree water bath. Dilute if you have to to whatever concentration you want. While your at it, make some wine out of them. Then distill the wine for some mighty tasty brandy.

 

[TravelinGirl]

I mix 240 ml of my ADV at a time.

Once its mix, i put it in my wine cooler.

Constant 60 degrees for my mix = same color, same taste to the bottom of the bottle.

Any other storage and I have to make my juice every 2 - 3 days.

I have bee diy'ing for 5 years. Figured this out about 3 years ago. Works well for my ADV mix.