Kent, I have a questions about H1N1 before I order

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kent Brooks

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
Apr 24, 2013
17,678
91,969
48
Omaha, Nebraska, United States
www.nicoticket.com
Hi Kent, I have never ordered from you and before I do I have a few questions. I would really like to try H1N1 and was wondering if it contained any of the following?

1- Acetoin
2- Acutyle Propionyl
3- Cinnamon


Thank you

There is no naturally or artificially flavored cinnamon in H1N1 - that said, understand, cinnamaldehyde (imparts the cinnamon'ish flavor in sufficient concentration) is a core component of lots of different flavorings besides cinnamon (in small quantities) so it may be present in small quantities in any/all of the liquid.

The same holds true for acetyl propionyl and acetoin - the vanilla flavoring that is contained in H1N1 is naturally extracted vanilla, made from vanilla beans imported from Madagasgar. There is no "artificial custard flavoring" in H1N1 that would give reason for pause in H1N1. That said, caramel is another flavoring that has been known to contain trace amounts of diketones. The levels are typically significantly lower than would be found in a custard eliquid, but they may be present in trace amounts.

One of the key issues of concern for us, an issue that has not been addressed by the wider research community, is the issue of "thresholds." Virtually all artificial flavoring contains trace elements of flavor molecules that gives reason for pause, but, how much is "acceptable." Without guidance from the research community, I'm not sure I am adequately prepared to say ANY eliquid is "safe for consumption." That said, one taste of H1N1 will inevitably reveal the absence of the "full-mouth feel" that is typically associated with significant quantities of dike-tones, so I can be reasonably confident that the levels are significantly less than the liquid which are known to contain said flavoring molecules (Custard's Last Stand, Creme Brulee, and to a lesser degree... Frenilla).

Mind you - I am not a scientist (never pretended to be one). By choosing best of breed flavoring suppliers, we have placed our trust in said suppliers that the contents of the flavor are "as advertised." If they assure us it contains no diacetyl, for example, we take that at face value. Based on our inquiries with the respective flavoring vendors, we have no reason to believe the above molecules exist in sufficient quantities to give reason for concern. Totally absent? I doubt it, but I don't think any vendor knows the answer to that question because we all rely on the good faith disclosure of the flavoring vendors.
 

Kent Brooks

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
Apr 24, 2013
17,678
91,969
48
Omaha, Nebraska, United States
www.nicoticket.com
I'll take my "diketones" all day every day over coffin nails :p

The hard part is, no-where has anyone with any credibility said "you need to test these liquids for these compounds, and the specific thresholds for tolerance are X, Y, and Z." There are multiple ways to test for diacetyl for example... but the tests vary in specificity. Without specificity, testing is is like throwing darts at a dart-board that doesn't exist. I think what vendors and consumers both want is some specific guidance with regard to exactly what tests need to be done, what levels are considered acceptable, and "what are we looking for."

I totally agree - we *know* cigarettes will kill you slowly.

At present, I don't know if it's even appropriate to make a comment about whether or not vaping is safer than smoking. For liability's sake, it's safe to assume that no one on the planet knows the long-term health effects of consuming any eLiquid, and, at present... one should assume that it's every bit as dangerous as smoking. I don't personally believe that's true, but, I can't prove it either.
 

taki1203

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Aug 28, 2013
2,108
14,831
NorCal
The hard part is, no-where has anyone with any credibility said "you need to test these liquids for these compounds, and the specific thresholds for tolerance are X, Y, and Z." There are multiple ways to test for diacetyl for example... but the tests vary in specificity. Without specificity, testing is is like throwing darts at a dart-board that doesn't exist. I think what vendors and consumers both want is some specific guidance with regard to exactly what tests need to be done, what levels are considered acceptable, and "what are we looking for."

I totally agree - we *know* cigarettes will kill you slowly.

At present, I don't know if it's even appropriate to make a comment about whether or not vaping is safer than smoking. For liability's sake, it's safe to assume that no one on the planet knows the long-term health effects of consuming any eLiquid, and, at present... one should assume that it's every bit as dangerous as smoking. I don't personally believe that's true, but, I can't prove it either.

In all seriousness Superman I appreciate the complete honesty you offer. Yes, we don't know what the long term effects are, and they maybe just as bad. However, from my experience with vaping and smoking I only turn to playing paintball. While smoking I couldn't play more than one game back to back. Now that I switched to vaping I can play all day.
 

Kent Brooks

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
Apr 24, 2013
17,678
91,969
48
Omaha, Nebraska, United States
www.nicoticket.com
Kent thank you for your detailed answer. I have to say, you provided the most detailed answer from any vendor I have ever questioned. Thank you

I strive to help consumers like yourself make informed decisions about what you put in your body. At the end of the day, trusting the guy who hovers over your bottles is paramount. I don't take that kind of trust for granted. I'd love to tell you with absolute certainty that the contents of the bottle won't cause long term health issues, but no one in the industry can assure you that. The unfortunate truth that the "boogeyman in the closet" is likely a flavor molecule or molecules that we aren't even considering for testing. I wish I could assure you that the contents of the bottle are safe - I feel confident that they are safer than a cigarette, and as safe (or safer) than any other liquid you will find on the market... but I can't even pretend to say it's "safer than a cigarette." At the end of the day, there is no substitute for clean fresh air. (and, choose your air wisely, not all air is created equal)

I commend you for being an informed consumer and asking the hard questions. These are questions all consumers need to ask before they make decisions about what goes into their bodies. Honestly, I wish everyone would take more time to understand the potential risks...
 

Elizabeth Baldwin

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 2, 2014
3,668
5,069
Lexington, Kentucky, United States
Honestly there are risks in nearly anything we consume...be it food, breathing, vaping or smoking. The important thing is to find that which has the least risk. We know smoking has thousands of dangerous chemicals in comparison with vaping-- where there's only the flavoring we really aren't completely sure about. I will take my chances with vaping because I've been baking cookies and pies for years and breathing those delicious smells. If food flavoring were that dangerous to breathe in, I'm sure we would have heard cases of those who have worked in bakeries for years and having issues by now. I feel confident that I will be okay.

It's good to know what you are putting in your body though. It's always better to be safe now than sorry later.

I think there is room for concern for some vendors who won't comment on what's in their juices. Some ignore the questions. I wouldn't buy from any vendor who dodges those sort of questions. Ignoring the question actually lets a customer know quickly the answer is bad. Then you have some who flat out lie.

I think you gave an outstanding response Kent. It's not sugar coated nor is it dodging. Any vendor who claims their juice is completely safe is a vendor I'd stay away from. There's not enough research to say that. But we know facts, so we can figure out what is safe and what is not. :vapor:
 

planes

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 11, 2013
395
179
MA
Hi Kent, I have never ordered from you and before I do I have a few questions. I would really like to try H1N1 and was wondering if it contained any of the following?

1- Acetoin
2- Acutyle Propionyl
3- Cinnamon


Thank you

Health concerns aside, I'm just squeezing the last few drops of H1N1 from the bottle as I write this. I'm notorious for needing a lot of variety and rarely re-order the same e-liquid. This is one of the rare ones that I will eventually re-order. Along with Grap3 Ap3 which i wish they/Nico would re-issue is another one I would definitely re-order as well. That's a pretty good record if you consider I've tried four of their products and they only have about 7 or 9 flavors going at one time.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread