Kindred V2 hot fire button occasionally, how as it is magnetic?

[conanthewarrior]

Hello everyone, I have a COV Kindred V2 which I have been using as my main mech since I got it around 2 months ago, as it is my favourite in the mech collection, and it has performed well.

However, today most of the time it fires normally, but occasionally the fire button instantly gets a spot that is very hot so you have to release the fire button.

I remember with my old Mech's like the nemesis this could happen due to resistance in the switch, however that used a spring whereas this mech uses magnets.

What can be causing my fire button to become hot instantly?

I want to diagnose the problem before I continue to use the mech for safety reasons and fix it, so is it resistance in the fire button causing this or something else?

Thanks for your help, Conan.

 

[bombastinator]

Hello everyone, I have a COV Kindred V2 which I have been using as my main mech since I got it around 2 months ago, as it is my favourite in the mech collection, and it has performed well.

However, today most of the time it fires normally, but occasionally the fire button instantly gets a spot that is very hot so you have to release the fire button.

I remember with my old Mech's like the nemesis this could happen due to resistance in the switch, however that used a spring whereas this mech uses magnets.

What can be causing my fire button to become hot instantly?

I want to diagnose the problem before I continue to use the mech for safety reasons and fix it, so is it resistance in the fire button causing this or something else?

Thanks for your help, Conan.

The standard arrangement for tube mechs involves a spring on the button at the base. The most common use I’ve seen for magnets in mechs is to replace that spring with a reverse polarity magnet that repels the contact and therefore acts as a spring. The electricity travels through the button (which makes electrical contact with the battery and flow to the walls of the tube. If the contact between the battery or the tube walls is poor there may be resistance that causes heat.

So if the ”hot spot” is near the center it’s the battery/button. If it’s near the edge it’s the tube walls/button. When the mech fires there will be always e a tiny spark as the battery or edge of the button makes contact. It may be microscopic or inside the walls of the mech, but it’s there. Spring mechs are actually less likely to have this problem because the spring can act as a conductor

 

[conanthewarrior]

The standard arrangement for tube mechs involves a spring on the button at the base. The most common use I’ve seen for magnets in mechs is to replace that spring with a reverse polarity magnet that repels the contact and therefore acts as a spring. The electricity travels through the button (which makes electrical contact with the battery and flow to the walls of the tube. If the contact between the battery or the tube walls is poor there may be resistance that causes heat.

So if the ”hot spot” is near the center it’s the battery/button. If it’s near the edge it’s the tube walls/button. When the mech fires there will be always e a tiny spark as the battery or edge of the button makes contact. It may be microscopic or inside the walls of the mech, but it’s there. Spring mechs are actually less likely to have this problem because the spring can act as a conductor

EDIT: I was wrong, the hotspot is indeed actually at the side, kind of in the middle but more where the sparking is occuring.

How do I go about stopping this hot spot from occurring, as I really like this mech and don't want to retire it.

 

[Izan]

Hola,

Mech 101

Check the build first; ALL screws tight , coil(s) not shorting, Confirm resistance on a regulated device.

Device; strip to bits and clean, polish contact points and clean threads well.

Battery; clean contacts and confirm the unit is operated at no more than 80% of amp draw.

Reassemble and test.

What is the resistance of your build?
Which battery are you using?

Cheers
I

 

[conanthewarrior]

Hola,

Mech 101

Check the build first; ALL screws tight , coil(s) not shorting, Confirm resistance on a regulated device.

Device; strip to bits and clean, polish contact points and clean threads well.

Battery; clean contacts and confirm the unit is operated at no more than 80% of amp draw.

Reassemble and test.

What is the resistance of your build?
Which battery are you using?

Cheers
I

I have checked the build on the RDA, made sure all post screws were tight, making sure the coil was not shorting or anywhere near the topcap of the RDA, and checked the resistance on one of my DNA200's.

I have been every week since I got this mech maintaining the threads which are copper, polishing them up with brasso then going into the threads with a stiff toothbrush whilst the brasso wadding stuffs liquid residue is still on there. I also clean all the contact points to a shiny clean finish and ensure I have cleaned the insides of where they screw into at the 510 end and the switch end well.

I have tried with two P26A's and one P28A and it was still doing the same- it is something to do with the switch as I luckily noticed that when you press in the switch, at the edge where the switch can move up and down against the outside wall of the mech in the switch part, was actually creating tiny sparks.
I only noticed this by lifting the mod up and firing it looking from below, as soon as I saw sparks in that tiny gap I pulled the battery and stopped using it.

The only step I had been missing was fully cleaning the magnetic part of the switch, as it was held in place by my mortal enemy, the C clip.

I managed to get the switch fully apart after removing this, and cleaned the insides thoroughly. There was also a spring inside which surprised me as it is a magnetic fire button, but it must have been designed this way.

Only problem now is after trying to put the switch back together, I can't screw in the insulator to the top inside part of the switch that keeps the battery raised from the fire button- it screws in a couple of threads, then the plastic insulator just won't turn anymore.
I have even tried the same insulator from another Kindred V2 that was in copper and can not get it in place, so now I need to figure out how on earth I am going to tighten a delrin/plastic insulator into copper threading without stripping the delrin/plastic.

The resistance of my build is 0.32 Ohms, and I am using the Molicel P26A and P28A batteries, so am drawing 13.3A at 4.2V, so I have 48% headroom and am not near 80% of the batteries rated CDR.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Well I managed to get the insulator back in place after giving the internals of the switch a good clean, and unfortunately there are still hot fire button issues, and I looked at the bottom of the mech as I fired and even a small spark from the edge of the fire button to the wall of the mech.

Due to this I am now going to retire this mech mod. I will likely buy another one for £5 as they are on offer at the moment, and even if I get just 2 months use out of that one I will be happy for the money.

Just a shame as I can't work out what is causing the hot fire button or the spark- the magnets had lost some of their coating and were a darker gray in areas so maybe corrosion is the cause?

Either way it is obviously now not safe to use, so will be in mech heaven.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Either way it is obviously now not safe to use, so will be in mech heaven.

Good Call.

Better the Mod than You.

 

[conanthewarrior]

This was the state of the firing switch inside when I opened it, I ordered it on the 1st of February so haven't owned it for long, and obviously the corrosion is what was causing the problems.

I have emailed the shop I got it from, and hopefully they might send me a replacement as no way did that corrosion happen just whilst I owned it- I never got the mod wet and cleaned it weekly, this was just the first time I removed the C Clip to get to the magnets and spring- I was surprised it also had a spring as well as magnets, the spring is so soft though I have no idea why it is there.

 

[bombastinator]

EDIT: I was wrong, the hotspot is actually dead in the centre of the would be tempted to try something involving silver solderswitch and not the side when it heats up.

How do I go about stopping this hot spot from occurring, as I really like this mech and don't want to retire it.

Hot spot in the center means The conductivity patch is poor. First I’d find out what s hitting. Could be the magnet. I would be tempted to try something involving silver solder. It’s a good conductor and it’s soft. Maybe a couple of big drips on the back of the button. Not sure.

 

[bombastinator]

This was the state of the firing switch inside when I opened it, I ordered it on the 1st of February so haven't owned it for long, and obviously the corrosion is what was causing the problems.

I have emailed the shop I got it from, and hopefully they might send me a replacement as no way did that corrosion happen just whilst I owned it- I never got the mod wet and cleaned it weekly, this was just the first time I removed the C Clip to get to the magnets and spring- I was surprised it also had a spring as well as magnets, the spring is so soft though I have no idea why it is there.

That IS a spring switch. Theres the spring. There are traditionally two. One for the battery and one for the button. Not sure where the magnet would go in this scenario.

 

[bombastinator]

Well I managed to get the insulator back in place after giving the internals of the switch a good clean, and unfortunately there are still hot fire button issues, and I looked at the bottom of the mech as I fired and even a small spark from the edge of the fire button to the wall of the mech.

Due to this I am now going to retire this mech mod. I will likely buy another one for £5 as they are on offer at the moment, and even if I get just 2 months use out of that one I will be happy for the money.

Just a shame as I can't work out what is causing the hot fire button or the spark- the magnets had lost some of their coating and were a darker gray in areas so maybe corrosion is the cause?

Either way it is obviously now not safe to use, so will be in mech heaven.

There will be sparks on ALL switches. It’s why they don’t allow electricity in areas with flammable gasses. Switches produce sparks. Period. House light switches do it too, it’s just inside the box.

 

[zoiDman]

Wow... Almost looks like some Poor Battery gave up it's Life Fluid on that Switch Assembly.

That, or your Mech spends Way Too Much Time Poolside.

 

[bombastinator]

True. Unwiped off brasso will do that too. It might even be the cleaning regimen that caused the problem

 

[bombastinator]

Interestingly this is not a new problem. There’s a post dated 2015 that apparently is about it

 

[conanthewarrior]

Hot spot in the center means The conductivity patch is poor. First I’d find out what s hitting. Could be the magnet. I would be tempted to try something involving silver solder. It’s a good conductor and it’s soft. Maybe a couple of big drips on the back of the button. Not sure.

I was wrong about that, the middle just gets a bit hot where the sides spark, the heat is mainly concentrated at the edge of the firing button where the button slides against the outside wall of the mech, which is part of the reverse locking ring.

That IS a spring switch. Theres the spring. There are traditionally two. One for the battery and one for the button. Not sure where the magnet would go in this scenario.

Oh I see, I am very confused as it is advertised as having a magnetic firing switch, which made me confused when I saw the spring upon taking it apart.
So the spring is part of the circuit on this mech then? As far as I can work out from looking at the switch the magnets are for what gives the fire button its action, not sure what the spring is for as it is very, very soft, a lot softer than pressing the button. You can just hold it between fingers and thumb and it will squeeze together with no effort needed.

There will be sparks on ALL switches. It’s why they don’t allow electricity in areas with flammable gasses. Switches produce sparks. Period. House light switches do it too, it’s just inside the box.

I didn't know this, so seeing a spark is not a sign of immediate danger? Where I have never seen any of my other mechs in the collection spark around the fire button like this is the reason I pulled the battery until I get the issue figured out.

 

[conanthewarrior]

View attachment 1026189

Wow... Almost looks like some Poor Battery gave up it's Life Fluid on that Switch Assembly.

That, or your Mech spends Way Too Much Time Poolside.

I ordered the Mech on the 1st of February, no battery has failed whilst using it and I have kept it away from water.
I am certain that that amount of corrosion could not have occurred in less than 2 months in southern UK weather. The mod was sealed in a ziplock bag when I got it, which I guess protected it somewhat, but there must have already been some of this corrosion there as no way would it have happened that fast.

True. Unwiped off brasso will do that too. It might even be the cleaning regimen that caused the problem

Unwiped off Brasso will do what too mate? I only use it on the threads and topcap of the mod to keep the copper as shiny as possible, and always remove with tissue and residue left behind by rubbing it and rubbing it until there are no longer and black spots coming off onto the tissue.
I cleaned the contacts with Brasso every week to keep the mech working like new, this is the first time since I got the mech at the beginning of February that I took the C Clip off that holds the button assembly together- I took it apart due to the hot button and sparking issue and was met with that state.
I cleaned it up the best that I could and put the button back together with the C Clip, but am still having the same issue last time I checked.
What could brasso cause that would cause the problem I am describing?

Interestingly this is not a new problem. There’s a post dated 2015 that apparently is about it

This is news to me, do you have a link to the post from 2015? I realise it is an old mech, but as far as I knew as long as you maintained a mech it should potentially last you for life, which is why I was really looking after this one as even though I got it as a cheap deal, it was by far my favourite mech compared to mechs that have cost more than 10 times the price.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Well I had a spare copper Kindred V2 that I never really used, and took the switch apart from that.

The magnets were not corroded on this one, so I switched them with the ones in the SS Kindred that were really corroded, and now the button is not getting hot and not sparking so all seems to be working.

It must have been the magnets where they were corroded and showing the layer underneath the shiny part that was darker, possibly this was causing resistance in the switch?

Since I switched the magnets the fire button is working as it should, and I am pleased as it was my favourite mech.

 

[conanthewarrior]

Well I did email the company with a picture of the corrosion in the fire switch on the weekend, I got a reply earlier today that was very apologetic and they said they are sending me a new Kindred V2 to replace my current one today.

They said feel free to keep the current one I have for spare parts.

This gives me great confidence in premiere cigs, and means I will buy from them again.

 

[bombastinator]

I was wrong about that, the middle just gets a bit hot where the sides spark, the heat is mainly concentrated at the edge of the firing button where the button slides against the outside wall of the mech, which is part of the reverse locking ring. [

Then the poor conductivity patch is on the side. If it heats the conductivity is bad.

Oh I see, I am very confused as it is advertised as having a magnetic firing switch, which made me confused when I saw the spring upon taking it apart.
So the spring is part of the circuit on this mech then? As far as I can work out from looking at the switch the magnets are for what gives the fire button its action, not sure what the spring is for as it is very, very soft, a lot softer than pressing the button. You can just hold it between fingers and thumb and it will squeeze together with no effort needed.
[\QUTOE]

There is 1 or 2 springs generally. One spring is for the battery holder, one for the button. If the battery holder IS the case (as is the case for a lot of tube mechs) it’s 1 or 0.

I didn't know this, so seeing a spark is not a sign of immediate danger? Where I have never seen any of my other mechs in the collection spark around the fire button like this is the reason I pulled the battery until I get the issue figured out.

Yep. When electrically charged metal comes near other electrically charged metal the electricity will bridge the gap first. How far it has to jump is the size of the spark. If it’s long enough (like with Tesla stuff) they call it “lightning”

 

[conanthewarrior]

Well my replacement Kindred V2 in SS turned up today after the company sent me a replacement after showing them how corroded the inside of the fire button was on the one I had problems with and managed to fix, which they sent out yesterday,

Very impressed with premiere cigs customer service, and will definitely use them again in the future.

I have started to use the new mech and am keeping the spare SS one as a backup for parts in case I need them, so should be able to use my favourite mech for years to come in the future.